Putting a slight camber on an Iron?

[Tony Shea]

What are the best techniques out there for putting a very slight camber on a plane iron by hand. I seem to struggle with this when honing by hand. I don't use a honing guide as I don't really like how they function, the cheaper ones anyway. I haven't bit the bullet and spent the $ they want for a honing guide like the MK II. I do fine by keeping a consistant angle by hand, more so than when using my $10 side clamping honing guide. There always seems to be a slight change in angle and just get annoyed as I know I do better by hand. Anyways, I recently bought two new planes off someone who used a honing guide (MK II) and do not like how the edges are on them. The corners of the blades are very sharp and leave gouges in the wood while planing. I tried re-sharpening them by hand, not regrinding, and am struggling to get rid of the sharp corners. I try by putting more pressure on each corner as I go through the grits (scary sharp 3M method) but just can't seem to knock them down enough. Would it make sense to hold the edge straight down, 90*, to the paper on both corners?

[Sean Hughto]

It's pretty simple with an inexpensive single wheel honing guide like the eclipse sold by LN among others http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1310. See diagram.

[Matt Rogers]

The same honing guide, made in China and all, is available from Harbor Freight for about $4.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66711

--Matt Rogers

[Jim Koepke]

There are a couple of ways I do this by hand.

If you want a radius on you blade, then you need to take a different approach. This is just for knocking down the corners a bit.

With the blade cutting corner to corner and straight, I will hone just the back side corners of the blade on the edge of a 1000 stone, paper would also work for this. The first time you do this it will be trial and error to figure out how much you need to do. Usually, when you can a see definite scratch pattern you have done enough. This same procedure can be done on the bevel. It is kind of putting another angled micro bevel at the corners.

jim

[David Gendron]

I can achive the same result as Sean suggested with my MKII and the straight roller and a heavy camber with the camering roller! Might be a little harder doing it free hand, but I'm sure it is possible.

[James Scheffler]

It's pretty simple with an inexpensive single wheel honing guide like the eclipse sold by LN among others http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1310. See diagram.

+1 on the Eclipse-style honing guide. Establishing and maintaining camber is a strength with this type of guide.

Jim

[Richard Dooling]

I guess I would like to ask how deep a cut you are making. Deeper cuts need more camber to ensure that the edges of the blade are housed inside the plane body.

.

[Tony Shea]

Even on real light cuts I'm getting gouging on the surface where the corners of the blade are cutting more than the center portion of the iron. I haven't really taken a heavy grind off of the original sharpening as it has a nice set angle for me to hone by. It's a given angle and written down in the instruction booklets. He acheived this with the MK II. But aparently he has created corners that actually look as if they stick out beyond the flat of the iron by .001" or so. It's hard to tell if they really do or not by holding a straight edge on them but just by eye and feel they do. My results also show the scrapes. I just wanted to remedy it by honing a slight camber which is how my #5 is set up and produces a beautiful finish. These are a #2 Bronze LN and a #4 LV. Both are excellent examples of planes and love using them. Just would like a better surface. If you couldn't tell I'm a bit new at this hand plane thing.



With the blade cutting corner to corner and straight, I will hone just the back side corners of the blade on the edge of a 1000 stone, paper would also work for this. The first time you do this it will be trial and error to figure out how much you need to do. Usually, when you can a see definite scratch pattern you have done enough. This same procedure can be done on the bevel. It is kind of putting another angled micro bevel at the corners.


I don't really understand what you mean in the first sentence?
With the blade cutting corner to corner and straight,

[Terry Beadle]

I wonder if you are checking your arc whilst you are sharpening. I use a piece of rock maple ( 1/4 inch thick plastic is better ) that is about 4 inches long, by 2 inches tall by 1/4 inch thick. One edge is dead flat and square as tested by a Starrate ruler. Put the blade on the designated flat edge and hold it up to bright sunlight or a good light source. Check for a definite arc of about 1/32 at the edges of the blade. 1/16 for a jack plane or 1/8th for a scrub.

You should use a 800 to 1000 grit water stone or equivalent and be able to create the arc by putting your strongest fore or center finger on the edge end you are working on. By putting firm pressure on the edge end you will be creating the arc. Follow the pattern of pressure points shown above to get the blade set right but the edge end pressure points may need extra strokes to get the initial arc correct. Keep checking the arc with the straight edge jig as you go and you'll see the arc come into being. Keep the arc centered on the blade as much as you can.

If you already are doing the above, ignore this message...hoot!

Good Luck and happy shavings !

[Jim Koepke]

I don't really understand what you mean in the first sentence?


With the blade cutting corner to corner and straight,

'When the blade is sharp and taking an even shaving across the full width,' may be a better way to say this.

Then, with maybe an 1/8" of the back side of the blade's corner on a stone at an angle, the blade is pulled toward me for a few strokes. Then this is repeated on the other corner of the blade.

This was discovered when a blade's back was being flattened and it was tried before the back was flattened all the way to the edge.

jim

[Michael Peet]

I can achive the same result as Sean suggested with my MKII and the straight roller

Same here; the blade will flex enough to allow it.

Mike

[george wilson]

Just learn to do it freehand. Not that hard to do.

[Ken Whitney]

Then, with maybe an 1/8" of the back side of the blade's corner on a stone at an angle, the blade is pulled toward me for a few strokes. Then this is repeated on the other corner of the blade.

Jim,

So you are removing material at the corners of the blade from the back, rather than from the bevel?

Ken

[Jim Koepke]

Jim,

So you are removing material at the corners of the blade from the back, rather than from the bevel?

Ken

Yes, it is just a different way of getting the same result. I do not do this to many blades. Most of the time my blades are sharpened straight across and I take lighter cuts when going full width on flat work.


Even on real light cuts I'm getting gouging on the surface where the corners of the blade are cutting more than the center portion of the iron. I haven't really taken a heavy grind off of the original sharpening as it has a nice set angle for me to hone by. It's a given angle and written down in the instruction booklets. He acheived this with the MK II. But aparently he has created corners that actually look as if they stick out beyond the flat of the iron by .001" or so. It's hard to tell if they really do or not by holding a straight edge on them but just by eye and feel they do.

[snip]



This sounds like the blade is dished, the opposite of a camber. Otherwise it would be the plane soles that are not flat.

This kind of problem can result from a stone that is crowned.

jim

[Tony Shea]

I almost think that the fellow that had the planes before I had a crowned stone somewhere in the mix. I took some 1/4" thick acrylic and used it for a straight edge and sure enough the corners were slightly more forward than the center, the oposite of a camber. I'm really not set up with to take lots of material down on an iron so this is a good excuse to buy a coarse grit stone. I also need to set up my grinder with some sort of fence system that is accurate and consistant. My grinder is my grandfather's and some reason is without a fence. Any suggestions for an aftermarket fence for a 6" grinder? And also what is a good brand of stones a decent price? Are Lee Valley's stones decent as they are priced fairly reasonable? I've been using scary sharp system but am starting to outgrow it.

[Matt Radtke]

I don't know how it compares to others, but I have the LV. Works well, I like it.

[Tri Hoang]

Depending on how much metal you have to remove to straighten the blade, you may want to go back to the grinder. One of the problem I found with using the scary sharp is if you push down on the corners to camber the blade, you may end up tearing up the paper. For smoothing planes, finger pressure on each corner and a few strokes on the stone would give me the camber I need. For others (jointer/fore/scrub), the camber must be created on the grinder...just too much metal to take off on the stones.

I also keep a small straight edge stainless steel rule by my sharpening station to check the camber/straighness as I go...just take extra precaution to not to ding the blade with it.

[Christian Castillo]

Hi, the way I have been told Japanese timber framers establish camber, and the way I've seen my woodworking instructor do it with japanese kanna blades is to first hone the entire bevel flat, then on a finishing stone you would angle the blade around 45 degrees (corner of the plane blade facing forward) and lift if it up slightly and take a few strokes. You would then reduce the angling of the blade to the stone (roughly by half each time you do) closer to having the edge perpendicular to the stone, few more strokes and repeat this process until you have established a desired camber. What you are doing is creating a microbevel of camber on corners of the bevel. This is similar to what Jim has described except he takes material off the backside. Just another way to skin a cat.