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Zsolt Paul
02-25-2010, 12:59 PM
I had been asked to engrave the logo of a restaurant into their plates. The logo would go on the flat edge portion of the plate, so not directly where the food will go, however it will be in contact with food. It looks like glazed ceramic to me, but it says "porcelain" made in china. So, I am not sure if it IS truly porcelain throughout, or just being called porcelain as I have seen this word being used overseas as a general term for plates etc.

My question is, if it is ceramic, I would engrave through the glaze and would need to color fill. What can I color fill with that would be food safe as well as dishwasher safe / durable? I had done color filling on ceramic, but it was not in contact with food. I suppose there is always the option for cermark (for ceramic) which would work for ceramic as well as porcelain, but wanted to consider other options if there are any... Thanks!

Dee Gallo
02-25-2010, 1:15 PM
I would be leery of making a groove, which might be filled successfully, but also might release bits of the fill because of the high pressure washers they use in restaurants...then you have somewhere for food or bacteria to lodge. Plus it would look ugly, nothing a good restaurant would want to display on their tables.

Cermark will make a nice mark, slightly raised, which might wear off in time, but then they will just re-order.

That's my 2¢, dee

Zsolt Paul
02-25-2010, 1:31 PM
Great points Dee!

Andrea Weissenseel
02-25-2010, 2:09 PM
I also would pleed for Cermark concerning the mark - but I don't know if it's food save

Andrea

Dan Hintz
02-25-2010, 4:17 PM
Cermark is food safe (they even use it to mark medical implants).

Norberto Coutinho
02-25-2010, 5:21 PM
Due to my english is not good, I used Google translation for this link. Let me know if the translation is OK.... Tomorrow I will try to paint a piece of black basalt where I engraved a logo. Off course using this paint and after tomorrow I tell you the final art. :)
.
http://translate.google.com.br/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=pt-BR&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corfix.com.br%2Fprodutos1.asp%3 Fcod_produto%3D1&sl=pt&tl=en

Cassondra Bennett
02-28-2010, 9:28 AM
Our family owned a restaraunt for years and used ceramic dishes. Once there was a chip on any part of the dish that food might come in contact with they were to be thrown away because of the possiblity of food and bacteria taking root in the porous ceramic so I would definitely stay away from lasering away the glaze. Have you looked into any of the ceramic/glass paints that are available? I think they have to be heated to cure or left to sit an cure on thier own for several days and some are food safe......not sure about the high pressure dish washing though.

Darren Null
02-28-2010, 10:13 AM
Do you know anyone with a kiln? In theory it's possible to laser fairly deeply into the glaze, fill up the holes with another glaze (squeegee off the excess) and refire the plates. Bit involved though.

Roy Nicholson
02-28-2010, 7:03 PM
I think most plates etc are pad printed and the ink seems to hold up well under dishwashing etc. and you can go with multi colour.

Regards

Roy N.

Mark Ross
03-01-2010, 8:44 AM
Or...

Maybe the restaraunt has not bought a ton of plates yet? If so, could they use regular clear glass plates and you could engrave from the bottom?

Zsolt Paul
03-01-2010, 10:37 AM
Thanks for all the replies. Have you guys successfully engraved photos with cermark? Generally you get better adhesion with cermark with higher resolution, since the laser overlaps the coating that way. However, photos require 300 or less dpi's, otherwise the defenition starts to get lost. Their logo contains a photo of an italian grandma (its an italian restaurant) and I did not get good results with cermark. I think there are multiple problems with this image. Its small (1 1/2" x 1 1/2") that has text on the outside and a small photo on the inside and all this with cermark. The engraving is also going on the diagonal portion of the plate which means I had to prop the plate on an angle the get the angles part where the engraving goes flat. Its startig to be more trouble than its worth....

Zsolt Paul
03-01-2010, 4:58 PM
That plate has got me baffled. I absolutely can NOT get a good mark on the edge of the plate (the flat diagonal part in the first post picture). I made a jig that holds the plate on an angle so that the "lip" of it lays flat. I can not get a nice mark at all. Very faint only. HOwever, on the same plate I did some test on the back of the plate. It engraves beautifully. Cermark that is.... I get a nice blue. I had compared all kinds of speed / power / dpi combinations and chose the best one which here was 35-40% power (on 100w machine), 40 speed. Then I went and followed the same exact steps for the front lip where the design is supposed to end up. I propped the plate to keep the lip flat (so its not a focus issue) but it is impossible to get a mark like on the back. Could it be that the back is coating with something different than the front? It looks the same, but behaves very differenly...

Martin Boekers
03-01-2010, 8:27 PM
Engraving "food service" dishes is a tough call.

Most in the industry are a screen printed decal that is fused in a kiln.
The inks are a special set that have a high mineral content that won't vaporize in a kiln.

I have been looking for sometime to find a "food safe" sealer to put on a plate or mug that I could use a standard waterslide decal. I have talked with Tech Support at Krylon and they could'nt recommend a food safe protectant.

There may be something in a UV cure that would hold up and be safe, but I haven't found it yet.

I have been working with doing designed "chargers" That hold the place setting spot until everyone is seated, but those won't be used for service and are removed when people are seated. I'm using CLTT with a "puck" to transfer.

If you come up with something please share!

Marty

Dan Hintz
03-01-2010, 9:11 PM
Zsolt,

Although plates are often completely dipped in glaze before firing, sometimes the glaze may be sprayed on, and the front is hit more heavily than the back... this may be the case for you.

Zsolt Paul
03-01-2010, 10:46 PM
Zsolt,

Although plates are often completely dipped in glaze before firing, sometimes the glaze may be sprayed on, and the front is hit more heavily than the back... this may be the case for you.

Good thought, however shouldn't the cermark stick to the glaze regardless of its thickness?

Dan Hintz
03-02-2010, 6:45 AM
Depends on the coverage of the glaze... if it was too light and spotty, you may have issues. Probably not your problem, but something to consider.