mortise & tennon: drawbore vs wedged?

[James Baker SD]

I am in the planning stages for my "dream" bench. When building the base, how do I decide which is the better way to strengthen/reinforce the mortise and tennon joints: drawbore pins or wedged through tennons? Thanks.

James

[Mike Henderson]

If you're going to glue the joints, glue will make as strong a joint as any other technique.

But if you're dead set on doing some other technique, I would put a wedge in the through tenons, rather than drawboring.

Mike

[Frank Drew]

James,

Do you want to be able to knock the base down at some point? If not, then I'd go with Mike's suggestion to glue the joints.

I made my base knockdown by stub tenoning the stretchers, reinforced with lengths of all-thread, on the stretcher backsides. Out of sight, easy to tighten, and retighten if the wood shrinks a bit.

[Jerome Hanby]

I think drawboring would be a good way to tighten up the joints while the glue sets. That's what I'm planning.

My stretchers are going to be attached into mortises with homemade bench bolts so in that sense it'll be knock down. But both end pieces will be drawbored and glued to be permanent.

[Kent A Bathurst]

the ends of my bench frame are glued + pinned subassemblies. The stretchers have through-tenons with exposed pegs (think arts + crafts furniture) so I can knock it all down. For no good reason I guess - only been knocked down once in 12 years, but I thought looked cool so I did it :)

[Chris Friesen]

Either one is fine. Both will keep the joint together even if the glue on the tenon cheeks fails.

However, for the long stretchers I vote for long bolts or allthread to allow you to knock it down easily and tighten if necessary.

[Dave Anderson NH]

My approach was to build 2 leg assemblies with drawbored M&T joints and use stub tenons with the Lee Valley bed bolts for the stretchers. This allows the base to be broken down if I ever need to move the bench out of the shop for any travel. It is rock solid.

[Don C Peterson]

I may as well throw out my $.02

I prefer tusk tenons to using bolts, they work great and I think they look cool...(look ma, no metal hardware!) Assembly and knockdown require nothing more than a mallet.

My bench has two glued and drawbored end assemblies then the long strechers are held in place with tusk tenons.

[Tom Godley]

I made a left and a right leg assembly and then used bolts and captured nuts to hold the front and back stringers to the two assemblies

To make the assemblies:

The lower stringers were made out of two matching pieces of maple -- with angled matching dado cut in each. When they were glued together I had my mortice. I cut a tenon on the bottom of each leg and used glue and a wedge to attach it to the lower stringer

The upper stringers were made using a double lap joint setting the stringer just proud of the legs - so the top would rest on the stringer not the legs. I used glue and draw-pins to hold this.

They are unbelievably strong and the bench can be broken down and reassembled with very little effort. Its too large and heavy to move assembled.

[Tim Sgrazzutti]

My vote is drawbore, whether you also glue or not. Makes for easy assembly with no clamps required. Wedges are a pain to plan out, IME, and are never reversable.

[Jim Kirkpatrick]

+1 for drawboring

[David Gendron]

An other vote for drawboring. I also like the tusk tenon for the long stretchers!

[Leigh Betsch]

What do you wizzards think about lap joints instead of mortice and tennons? Right now that is my plan.

[Chris Friesen]

What do you wizzards think about lap joints instead of mortice and tennons? Right now that is my plan.

Lap joints should work fine, but you might want to consider fastening them together mechanically as well as with glue. Also make sure you get the shoulders closed up really tight as they help provide your racking resistance.

[Casey Gooding]

I like to drawbore my M&T's because there is no need for clamping. Once the joint is in place, it's set. Plus you have the added bonus that they are a heck of a lot easier than through mortises.

[Darnell Hagen]

Fox wedge, 'cause it's fun to mess with people when they try to take it apart after you're dead. :p

[Thomas love]

I pondered the same ? , so i did both . I am in the process of building a bench as we post. Knock down will be limited to removal of top and bottom shelf. Top will be 4" thick with Bench craft leg and wagon vice. Either way you should be good . Hope it turns out nice.
Tom

[Jim Kirkpatrick]

Good execution on those wedged through tenons, Thomas! In the 3rd picture: With the top apron as wide as it is, will you have enough room to locate the side vise screw on the chop? There's a 3" square steel back plate that is mounted on the backside of the leg. For clearance, it looks like it will have to be mounted almost all the way down to where you cut the tapers on the vise chop. But maybe that's just an optical illusion.

[Thomas love]

Good eyes Jim. I down loaded the instructions from bench craft and are aware of that plate , I end up with 10 " to the screw center from the finished bench top . I will not be within the 1/3 to screw hole and 2/3 to parralell guide reccomendations. I did not want to go any lower for the guide mortise. I do not expect it to spin and clamp like the one in the video although I think a little extra turn of the wheel should be sufficient. Thanks,
Tom

I posted one more pic to show why I did not want to go any lower and compromise the through tenons. I went through the through tenons with the guide mortise... that location left me with a full inch of tenons around the top and bottom guide mortise and enough room for the wedges.

[Kent A Bathurst]

What do you wizzards think about lap joints instead of mortice and tennons? Right now that is my plan.

Might consider a bridal joint - not really much more work than lap, but I believe it is stronger, due to 2x glue surface.

[Jim Kirkpatrick]

Those tenons sure are pretty. What kind of wood are you using? I'm building a bench using the same vises but am pretty much just following Jameel's plans for the split-top roubo. I'n not as far along as you are, though. But that's how I knew about the backer plate. It's all good.

[Thomas love]

I vote for the bridal over the lap as well, I f you have a band saw they are pretty easy.

[Thomas love]

!6/4 poplar , left over from a Job.. in fact it is all from scraps. The material for the top will be hard mapel 26'x96"... will have to purcase that.

[Tommy Squires]

I used draw bored pins but they are really unnecessary. My background includes timber framing and I just couldn't resist. If you want to have the option of disassembly M/T joints are not the best choice IMHO. It's too hard to get them apart without tearing them up. If disassembly is not important, M/T or lap joints are your strongest options. With good joints and modern glue, they will last longer than you do. That said pinned or wedged joints are just damn pretty and I smile each time someone asks about them in my shop. Here's my bench:
http://s216.photobucket.com/albums/cc154/tdsquires/My%20Workbench/

[Steve Dallas]

Might consider a bridal joint - not really much more work than lap, but I believe it is stronger, due to 2x glue surface.

It's spelled bridle, FWIW.

The term was misspelled in several places in Tom Fidgen's recent book, too.

[Kent A Bathurst]

It's spelled bridle, FWIW.

The term was misspelled in several places in Tom Fidgen's recent book, too.


Right you are, Steve, right you are.

My apologies - etiquette violation on my part, but your correction certainly made it easier for others to find the correct information. Thanks for that.

Never read Tom's book - certain he is happy to be running with moi on this ;)