Do you use a blade guard?

[David Prince]

I am not sure if there has been a specific thread on this topic in the past, but do you use the blade guard on your table saw?

I will start this off by admitting that I never use one.

I didn't install it. I did on a first saw years ago and thought that it was in my way and obstructed my view of the blade. I like to know where the blade is so that I can keep my fingers out of the way.

I agree that guards, covers, and shields on equipment have their purposes and I wouldn't think of taking them off everything, but the blade guard just doesn't do it for me.

I apologize for being naughty and taking off my guard! lol AND I don't need a lecture about safety. I know the risks and feel that the benefit of leaving it off outweighs the dangers for me.

[Joe Scharle]

YES. I cut the tabs off of my 22124 guard/splitter so it's easy to pop on/off.

[Tom Hammond]

40 years of woodworking and I have never used a blade guard, owned a pushstick (though I've made a few) and never hit my fingers with a sawblade EVER, until about a month ago. Thinking about a calculation on a jig I was making... instead of paying attention to the cut. Had my right hand over the fence, ripping a narrow board, using the exact same procedure I've used 10,000 times. This time, however, I decided to hang my thumb out from the fence and stuck the end of it right into blade. Cut right down through the nail and out of the fingerprint. Split in half almost to the knuckle. The surgeon told me I was "lucky" in that the angle of the blade was, as he put it, "in exactly the right position to do the least nerve and circulation damage." Uhhhh... Okay....

1 ambulance ride, 18 stitches, 1 missing bone (x-ray shows that it is GONE) and a month later, I am finally going back to the shop. You would not believe what you can't do without a right thumb to help. You can't button/buckle your pants, you can't pick up any number of things. Then, there's the skin peeling which reveals the nerve endings in the dermis below. Hanging out at home AFTER the stitches were taken out, I tried to help out by doing some things like washing dishes. Washed a few glasses, with warm water not hot, and raised a number of serious blisters which just slowed down the recovery. It's been five weeks, and I still can't handle a piece of hard material with an edge.

Long story short is that I still won't use a blade guard... BUT... a reassessment of using safety procedures and PAYING ATTENTION is definitely in order.

[Greg Peterson]

I use it whenever possible. I too like to know where the blade is and I figure that the guard does a pretty good job of that.

But I also use the guard to help manage DC.

On the R4511 the guard is pretty easy to remove/install. My only criticism is the width of the unit.

If I had to break out a wrench every time I needed to remove/install a splitter, I can very well imagine it would be a short matter of time before it would get 'lost'.

[Sean Hughto]

For sure. I love my Brett Guard:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3186/2932258486_3ef7935bbf_b.jpg

[Jim O'Dell]

I admit that I rarely used the factory splitter/guard on my Ridgid saw. I did build an overhead guard/dust pick up that I do use. Now coupled with the riving knife on my new saw, I will feel much better. Jim.

[Larry Schwenk]

In all honesty I think most guards just get in the way. There are a lot of strange designs but even so, I think it's more dangerous having to work around it.

Seems about a decade ago all the tool and woodworking TV shows the big push was guards on table saws....but now watching those shows today and seems the guards don't appear much.

[Rick Huelsbeck]

Well more than not, there are times you just have to take it off, but I'm of the opinion that if I don't put my hand under the gaurd I'm less likely to have the blade bite me. :D

[Bob Borzelleri]

I use a Uniguard with a dust collection port that I fashioned up. Unless the cut is impossible with the Uniguard, it is constantly in use. I would not think of leaving the blade constantly exposed.

[Al Willits]

I put the Shark on my Hybrid Delta and figure if it saves me once its more than paid for its self.

Time it takes to remove for some cuts is only maybe a minute, I'll spend that to keep the chance of getting hurt less.

Al

[Marlin Williams]

Yes, I like my fingers.


I think a lot of people are use to using a table saw without it so to them its change and they don't like it. I used my guard from the start and have got used to it and push sticks/featherguards/etc...

[David Peterson MN]

I always use my sharkguard. I can see the blade clearly, has good dust collection and never seems to be in the way

[Larry Schwenk]

Yes, I like my fingers.


I think a lot of people are use to using a table saw without it so to them its change and they don't like it. I used my guard from the start and have got used to it and push sticks/featherguards/etc...


We have a winner. The only time I've ever used one was in High School in shop class...and even then I got caught not using it at times. From my grandfather's and father's shop, never used or even saw a guard anywhere in the shop. So I got used to not using it.

[Eddie Darby]

I found that the guard got in the way, so I figured a better way around it.
I just use jigs that keep my hands well away from the blade at ALL times, and I stand to the side ALWAYS so that I am not in the line of fire.

I also incorporate plastic guards in my jigs, and hearing and eye protection.
No one else is allowed in the cutting area.

I never stick my hand in any area near the blade to remove debris either, even if the blade is stopped. I use extremely thin sticks to push out/away the debris. The thin strips represent less of a flying object should for some reason they make contact with a spinning blade.

I can say that it is not a cheap solution, with all the jigs, but worth it.

[Charlie McGuire]

I use mine whenever possible.

[Eric DeSilva]

In all honesty I think most guards just get in the way. There are a lot of strange designs but even so, I think it's more dangerous having to work around it.

Seems about a decade ago all the tool and woodworking TV shows the big push was guards on table saws....but now watching those shows today and seems the guards don't appear much.

I think the reason you don't see them on TV is because they obscure the picture; I think some of the folks like David Marks have said as much.

[Eric DeSilva]

I use one, unless the particular cut makes it impossible. I have the Bies overarm guard, and while it was spendy, it is a good, solid design.

[Brian Loucks]

I use sleds, push sticks and common sense. Want to see something scarey, search for a picture of an old ShopSmith with a tablesaw blade installed. Tiny table, no upper or LOWER blade guard! Reminds me of a buzz saw on the cartoons from the old days.
Speaking of sleds, just finished shoveling 18" of snow. blah!
Brian

[Philip Rodriquez]

I only used my old one when I was cutting MDF. It made a big improvement on DC. Now, however, I have an Excalibur BG. I use it all the time.

[Ron Bontz]

I just use the Bies. splitter, push sticks, and,(the most important part), I never take my eyes off of my fingers/ blade while cutting. The "guard" is the first thing I took off my uni. when I bought it.

[Joe Kieve]

Yep, I use mine all the time. Got used to the one that came with my contractor's saw. Rarely do I cut without it.
What Tom said..."been there, done that".
Tom...sorry to hear about your accident. Had a similar thing happen over 30 years ago. Took almost a year for all the feeling to get back in my right thumb. Hang in there, it'll get better. ;)

joe

[Kyle Iwamoto]

My guard or riving knife is always on. If the guard is in the way or I need to use a sled, the riving knife is on. And no, I'm not a woodworking pro. I do understand that when you are a pro, time is money.

All it takes is a microsecond to have a life changing event. If I have to lift the guard to make that measurement, I take that time to do it. I personally know 3 people with less than 10 fingers. I try not to join that club.

It is your choice to use a guard or not.

[John Thompson]

Before 1995 no.. since then All rips (which is 90% of my TS work) with exception of very narrow rips. I take it off for cross-cutting.. tenons.. non-throughs but I also use a short fence on rips.. feather-board left.. over-head hold-down on the fence.. push sticks so my hand never comes closer than 6"-8" of the blade. I never enter the lane when the saw blade is spinning either for that matter. ha.. ha...

[Stephen Edwards]

I don't use the blade guard at all. I would like to eventually have one of the overhead see-through blade guards that has built in DC. I am very careful; using hold downs, feather boards, push sticks, etc. when appropriate.

[Larry Fox]

I have a Shark guard on my Uni and use it whenever it is practical. It has good dust collection and I like the built-in splitter. A splitter, now that is something that I use very close to 100% of the time for rips.

[Kent A Bathurst]

..(the most important part), I never take my eyes off of my fingers/ blade while cutting. The "guard" is the first thing I took off my uni. when I bought it.

Ditto. The one on my 10 yr old Uni was mickey-mouse, and it left the saw within a month. Pretty sure the guard isn't even here anymore. Plus I am frequently doing dado cuts. Half-dozen hardwood + plywood push sticks of various widths, esp for thin cuts where I sacrifice the end of the stick - 10 seconds on the bandsaw and I have a new face, then pitch it when it gets below 12" or so, and make a couple new ones.

With the much-much-much improved designs on newer equipment - esp easy-detach riving knives - I would do it differently, and I would NEVER counsel anyone else to do what I do.

[Prashun Patel]

+1 on what Larry said.

[johnny means]

Cut right down through the nail and out of the fingerprint. Split in half almost to the knuckle.
1 ambulance ride, 18 stitches, 1 missing bone (x-ray shows that it is GONE) and a month later, I am finally going back to the shop. You would not believe what you can't do without a right thumb to help. You can't button/buckle your pants, you can't pick up any number of things. Then, there's the skin peeling which reveals the nerve endings in the dermis below.

Long story short is that I still won't use a blade guard...

:confused: Do you think you had especially bad habits to start with? If so, maybe you can decrease your risk. If not, what changes do you think would significantly lower your risk?

And what's this obsession with seeing the blade? These aren't freehand cuts like on a bandsaw.

[Norman Pyles]

I have an overhead guard, and the only time I don't use the guard is for dadoes.

[John Harden]

Over 20 years of woodworking and never used a blade guard. Had my PM-66 for over 10 years and the guard was never on it. Bought an Excalibur for it. Hated it, took it off and wound up giving it to the guy who bought my 66.

Have a Felder slider now with integrated riving knife/glade guard/overhead dust collection.

Love it and it is always on.

Euro's are 20 years ahead of their counterparts on safety, and it shows in their design. Simple and it works perfectly. As a result, it get's used.

Regards,

John

[jerry nazard]

Overhead guard.

[Tom Cullom JR.]

I never used a guard on my saws till I got the shark guard I love it it stays on till I have a cut that it just wont work with...

[Terry Hatfield]

Always. Always. Always.....except for those few cuts where it can't be used. I made the one that Wood Magazine has on their web site with a custom Lexan cover...but I know those who never have and never will. Just a personal preference deal I suppose. I personally feel naked if the guard is not on the saw.

t

[Matt Armstrong]

I use mine for the dust collection, not the safety improvements. Any cut I make that involves small pieces will see the grrripper come out

[Glen Butler]

[QUOTE=Eddie Darby;1354454]
I never stick my hand in any area near the blade to remove debris either, even if the blade is stopped. I use extremely thin sticks to push out/away the debris. The thin strips represent less of a flying object should for some reason they make contact with a spinning blade.
QUOTE]

This sounds like a good practice, if you don't do it when it is off you wont do it when it is on.

I don't use a blade gaurd. When I cut I focus only on cutting. I tell anyone who may be entering the shop to not talk to me while cutting. But like Tom Hammond above after 40 years, it just becomes so common place. I am at the 20 year mark. I would like to have something like Terry has, but no room right now.

[Neil Brooks]

Always. Always. Always.....except for those few cuts where it can't be used.

That's me, too.

BUT ... I always wear a helmet, while on my motorcycle AND while on my bicycle.

For me, the risk:reward equation is pretty simple: the downside has to be pretty significant for me NOT to wear/use these safety devices.

In these three cases (motorcycle, bicycle, table saw), I think the downside to using them is next to nil.

My $0.02. YMMV.

[Jim Rimmer]

I always use mine for two reasons:

1. About 15 years ago I got my finger in the blade. It was a combo error - blade raised too high and no guard. Fortunately it was minor and didn't even require a stitch but it scared the bejeebers out of me.

2. Two years ago I severely injured the index finger on my left hand (with a hammer - I was swinging at 16d nail and missed the nail). Surgery and therapy was required and it still gives me trouble.

Given those two incidents, I will take every precaution I can including many of the ones already mentioned (jigs, push sticks, etc.) to make sure I don't have a hand injury.

[Bill White]

Guard is on unless non-thru cuts, hearing protection, featherboards, ANSI lenses, blah, blah. I use 'em all. Call me a fraidie cat if you will. :D
Bill

[mark kosse]

Dave, Don't feel lonesome oa ashamed. I have a brett guard. It's on for the kids and off for when I use the saw. I've never really felt the need for one for myself.

[Bob Borzelleri]

Just got an email from Fine Woodworking. Mentions a study that reflects 31,400 ER visits for a recent year for TS accidents (I don't recall which year). 93% cuts and the remainder amputations. People are wondering why so many injuries in this era of mandated splitters, riving knives and guards on new machines. Perhaps it's because people take these devices off.

[Brian Loucks]

Just got an email from Fine Woodworking. Mentions a study that reflects 31,400 ER visits for a recent year for TS accidents (I don't recall which year). 93% cuts and the remainder amputations. People are wondering why so many injuries in this era of mandated splitters, riving knives and guards on new machines. Perhaps it's because people take these devices off.

Interesting number, I wonder how many accidents are directly related to someone going to the borg, picking up a saw to do some home improvement project, turning on the saw without any proper training and bam. I'm curious as to what price point saw causes the most injuries. Ive watched "professionals" stop a spinning blade with a wood scrap to save 5 seconds of time. No guard in the world will potect from stupidity.
Brian

[Callan Campbell]

Yes, I installed the larger Brett-Guard over-arm set-up on my Unisaw. It's a huge improvement over the lousy guard that my '05 Uni came with. I still need to tweak the dust collection inside the guard a bit to see if some directional baffling will give even better results than the guard came with, or change the plastic dust hose to a smoother metal or plastic to improve air flow as well on top.
The guards anti-kickback pawls aren't much to speak of though. I suspect Sean H. could comment on this also as he posted the smaller, original B-G mounted on his Powermatic Contractor Saw. Kelly Mahler[spelling?] couldn't get them to really work for him either when he reviewed a bunch of saw guards a few years ago. Only real let-down of this guard I think.
Having worked around lots of machines of all types that were made from pre WW1 to anything current, I'll always work with a well thought out guard system anyday versus no guard at all. Accidents happen in a shop setting for all sorts of reasons. Guards go a long way in preventing them from being "life changing events".

[Jason White]

Spitter? Yes.

Blade guard? No.

Jason


I am not sure if there has been a specific thread on this topic in the past, but do you use the blade guard on your table saw?

I will start this off by admitting that I never use one.

I didn't install it. I did on a first saw years ago and thought that it was in my way and obstructed my view of the blade. I like to know where the blade is so that I can keep my fingers out of the way.

I agree that guards, covers, and shields on equipment have their purposes and I wouldn't think of taking them off everything, but the blade guard just doesn't do it for me.

I apologize for being naughty and taking off my guard! lol AND I don't need a lecture about safety. I know the risks and feel that the benefit of leaving it off outweighs the dangers for me.

[Bob Borzelleri]

Interesting number, I wonder how many accidents are directly related to someone going to the borg, picking up a saw to do some home improvement project, turning on the saw without any proper training and bam. I'm curious as to what price point saw causes the most injuries. Ive watched "professionals" stop a spinning blade with a wood scrap to save 5 seconds of time. No guard in the world will potect from stupidity.
Brian

Can't argue with the prevalence of stupidity. I, too, am interested in knowing a bit more about the conditions surrounding the injuries, but alas, I doubt that the folks who gathered those data were close enough to the events to ask the right questions.

Were I to hazard a guess, I'd speculate that the vast majority of these injuries came from folks who either didn't have the safeguards installed or who managed to "override" them through techniques designed to enhance the gene pool.:rolleyes:

I know that I'd have to work pretty hard to get a blade cut with this:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=133523

Of course, doing something stupid, now that's another thing entirely.

[Bob Borzelleri]

Went back and looked at the study details. It was not for one year, it was a yearly average from 1990 to 2007. So, depending on whether they included data from 2007, that's either 496,000 or 527,000 TS injuries and that don't include professionals. Those data are kept separately.

[Cody Colston]

Splitter, yes. Guard, never.

[Mike Konobeck]

I really can't believe that this keeps coming up. Please don't take offense to my statement. I am just confused on how so many people think they can control random and mistakes. A guard does not guarantee safety but it sure does help reduce the risk a bit. I have caught myself doing some really stupid things and am thankful that my "learning" experiences have not cost me more than a scratch or less. If I can remove or reduce my chances of doing those things then I will at pretty much whatever cost that may be to do so within reason.

This is some really good, relevant, new evidence:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/24638/new-study-discusses-tablesaw-injuries (http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/24638/new-study-discusses-tablesaw-injuries)

Personally I am going to switch over to a slider ASAP. The cost is steep but the benefits far outweigh the cost. I need my hands to make a living, enjoy activities with my family, and all my hobbies. It is not my place to tell someone to quit smoking, drive drunk, etc. but if someone asks for my opinion I am always happy to give it as long as people realize it is MY opinion. There is a lot to learn on this forum and there are much better woodworkers (pretty much everyone) than myself here and I don't want to offend anyone. Just want everyone to keep all their digits and have the highest quality of life possible. As someone mentioned, losing the functionality of your thumb does reduce your quality of life some.

[Van Huskey]

I have made a lot more cuts in my life without a guard, most of the time it was my opinion that the guards were clunky and hard to remove and replace. I don't mind the guard on my PM2000 and tend to use it more but I am in search of a good overarm guard so I can force myself to use it all the time.

[johnny means]

I love how "stupidity" always seems to come up in these threads. As though every amputation or maiming is some drunk cutting a slab of ribs on his Uni-saw. I wonder how many people would bet their fingers on never tripping again. I have been in the biz for about 10 years now and know very few old timers with all 10. These guys are all more focused,diligent, and methodical than I will ever be, yet all it took was the one time. So why would I think I could be more careful than them. I can't tell anyone what to do, but I do know that being "careful" is not going to get between my fingers and a blade in that moment when I forget to be careful.

[Ray Newman]

The old style Delta disappearing splitter and the newer model Uniguard to replace a damaged older model are installed on my Unisaw.

Also, the Unifence is placed in the lower poisition to allow more room for my hand.

[Joe Kieve]

Terry,
You could perform brain surgery in there. How do you keep your place so clean? It's beautiful.

joe

[Brian Greb]

My TS Blade guard is a royal pain in my ass... I never use the guard on my TS, I respect the tool and watch where the blades cutting, never grab for a small piece and use a push stick. With all that said I do use the guard on all my other stationary equipment, A fat lot of good that it does I still managed to joint off my finger tip!(I know what your thinking yes it hurt... yes most of my finger is still there and yes I was back in the shop a week later)

...Lesson learned watch what your doing be mindful of others and don't work at a tool while distracted.

[Richard M. Wolfe]

Never use a guard. It comes from having a cheap guard on my old saw that I considered more dangerous than nothing. Also I want to be able to see all around the blade at all times. With multiple cuts many times I end up a lot of small cutoffs and strips vibrating around the blade and I want to be able to see them and take a small strip and flick them out of the way while standing clear of the line of fire.

[glenn bradley]

Splitter whenever possible. Guard whenever possible. I have gotten lax about my RT bit guard but have mentally re-committed to that easy safety feature. Almost every injury I have ever heard of on a cutting tool could have been avoided by following safety procedures; that includes no "just this once" escapades.

Excerpt from a recent link in Fine Woodworking:

Back in January 2005, the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) required that new tablesaw models include a riving knife and modular guard to prevent these injuries. Since that time injury rates have remained virtually unchanged, which begs the question: “Why are so many people hurt while using tablesaws, despite improvements in guards and splitters?”

I'm pretty sure the answer is that no matter how safe you make the safety feature, some folks still won't use them. If I jam my circular saw's guard open with a nail and then set it on my foot before it has wound to a stop after use, is the tool at fault?

[Troy Turner]

I will use mine if I have multiple cuts to make. Helps reduce the dust produced. Other than that...I'll be honest and say no.

[Brian Loucks]

[QUOTE=Mike Konobeck;1354765]I really can't believe that this keeps coming up. Please don't take offense to my statement. I am just confused on how so many people think they can control random and mistakes. A guard does not guarantee safety but it sure does help reduce the risk a bit.

I agree, safety cannot be overstated, and everything that can be done to prevent accidents should be considered. There is also a point where overconfidence can cause loss of concentration. As a healthcare professional, (pharmacist for over 30 years,) safety and accuracy are second nature, but I still double and triple check constantly. Creating a pattern for doing a task that you are comfortable with and never deviating from it goes a long way to staying safe.
Brian

[Rod Sheridan]

I worked in industry before I had any machinery at home.

At work it's "if you can't do the operation with the guard in place, use another machine for that job or install a guard that can be used".

I guess I've carried that home with me, and have an Excalibur overarm guard on my saw. It can be used for all operations, so it stays on all the time.

I gave up cutting tenons on the TS for that reason, I couldn't come up with a guard that worked. I now cut tenons on the shaper, which does have a guard that works for that operation.

If we were robots, we wouldn't need guards, because we wouldn't stick our manipulators in the saw blade. However being human, we don't always do exactly the correct thing at all times, so if you don't have a guard in place for that one in a million error, you'll need a new manipulator:D.

I checked with my Mom and she forgot to order spare parts for me, so I think I'll stick with the guard...........Rod.

[Glen Butler]

I'm curious as to what price point saw causes the most injuries.

That is an interesting question. I bet it is a lower price point. I used a buddy's Ryobi table saw. It's basically a tin can with a saw blade in it. The thing scared the bejeebers out of me. I was seriously afraid for myself. I was super extra cautious around that thing.

[David Prince]

That is an interesting question. I bet it is a lower price point. I used a buddy's Ryobi table saw. It's basically a tin can with a saw blade in it. The thing scared the bejeebers out of me. I was seriously afraid for myself. I was super extra cautious around that thing.

I have to agree with that. I had the same feeling using a friend's at his house to cut a couple of boards for him. I feel much safer around my cabinet saw. I know my cabinet saw probably will not move, so if I get my fingers in the blade it is because of my movements, not the saw.

[John Harden]

I really can't believe that this keeps coming up. Please don't take offense to my statement. I am just confused on how so many people think they can control random and mistakes.

Personally I am going to switch over to a slider ASAP. The cost is steep but the benefits far outweigh the cost.

+1. For years, blade guards on Western style table saws were worse than nothing and sometimes downright unsafe to use.

They've gotten better, particularly in the aftermarket realm, but guards, and gadgets to stop a spinning blade are still just a workaround to what is basically an outdated design.

These saws were originally designed when there was no thought given to operator safety.

If you ask and industrial designer to design a "saw for ripping and crosscutting" from the ground up today, no way would he position the operator in front of a forward spinning blade.

This is why a slider is inherently safer. I rip and crosscut while standing on the left side of the 14" wide slider. My hands never come within 18" of the blade. With the riving knife and clamps, kickback is unlikely, but should it happen, I'm completely out of the path of the projectile.

Many amputations occur after the saw has been turned off and the blade is spinning down. That's where an electric brake is necessary. Mine stops the blade in about 2 seconds after I hit the off switch.

My advice is to challenge your habits and methods of work and always strive to have your hands a minimum of 18" from the blade at all times.

Regards,

John

[Chris Kennedy]

The one thing I disliked about my saw when I bought it was the splitter and guard. I have a zip code saw, and I swear, my guard and splitter were just the same as the splitter and guard on my dad's old Craftsman contractor. In 30 years, no serious innovations.

I have since bought an Excalibur, and use it all the time. After I installed it, I thought it was great and my wife completely agrees.

Cheers,

Chris

[Terry Hatfield]

Terry,
You could perform brain surgery in there. How do you keep your place so clean? It's beautiful.

joe

Quite simple right now Joe. I never have time to mess it up. :D Always have been a clean shop freak and always will I suppose. Thanks for noticing.

t

[Paul Ryan]

I have very rarely used a blade guard until recently. In the past I didnt use them for various reasons. Now I own 2 guards that I have started to use. The sawstop PCS guard and shark are acceptable to me. But it is still hard to teach old dogs new tricks. I always use a riving which is really nice, but many times forget to install the guard, and I do feel clausterphobic with it on.


But hey I own a Sawstop I don't need a guard!

That should bunch a few panties!

[Andrew Gibson]

I used the guard/splitter on mt Jet contractor saw at first, and no matter what I did to adjust it the guard would move and cause the wood to be caught by the guard and or splitter and jam then kink into the blade... not what I would call safe, especially when you try to fee the piece.

I took it off and feel I am safer without it. I do also always wear ear muffs and safety glasses. When I put on the muffs I think it's table saw time, and I am focused on the cut. With all my tools if I think is that right? or anything like that, I stop and check and recheck until I am sure and I'm confident in the cut.

now I still want a new saw that has good safety equipment. and I actually would rather move more toward the neander side and do as much work as possible with quiet and less dusty tools.

[Bob Borzelleri]

Immediately after posting my last thought on this topic (as in, I always use the guard and splitter unless the needed cut is impossible with the guard attached and those instances are getting to be very few and far between), I went to my first meeting of the local woodturner's club.

Sitting to my right during the demo was a fellow who was a very experienced woodworker and turner and his left hand was fully bandaged. This past Saturday, he was running some walnut through his table saw with a push stick in his right hand. The wood suddenly lurched forward through the blade and he fell forward and his left hand went into the unguarded blade. He lost his thumb at the 1st knuckle.

[Callan Campbell]

:(
Immediately after posting my last thought on this topic (as in, I always use the guard and splitter unless the needed cut is impossible with the guard attached and those instances are getting to be very few and far between), I went to my first meeting of the local woodturner's club.

Sitting to my right during the demo was a fellow who was a very experienced woodworker and turner and his left hand was fully bandaged. This past Saturday, he was running some walnut through his table saw with a push stick in his right hand. The wood suddenly lurched forward through the blade and he fell forward and his left hand went into the unguarded blade. He lost his thumb at the 1st knuckle.
Yes, it's sad sad sad. It all happens so fast to everyone, during a "routine" cut or operation. I wish him well. :(

[mark kosse]

You need to find new friends. I don't know one woodworker personally or by heresay that has lost a didgit.

[Bob Borzelleri]

You need to find new friends. I don't know one woodworker personally or by heresay that has lost a didgit.

Well, there's 57,000 of them out there just during the period of the study cited by Fine Woodworking. So now you know of 57,000 by hearsay. :(

[Bruce Page]

I don't use a guard. I use a drop in splitter when I'm ripping and grippers for small piece cutting.

[Don Bullock]

On my old 1970s vintage saw the guard was more dangerous on the saw than leaving it off. Now, I always use the guard on my SawStop. It doesn't get in the way like the Craftsman guard did.

[Sean Nagle]

I never used the original guard on my 16-year old Unisaw, it was junk. After a few years I purchased an Excalibur overarm guard. I felt it was always in the way and it came off. I just reinstalled the Excalibur within the past year. I feel it's still in the way of the majority of cuts. When the cut is 2" or less, there just isn't room for the pushstick; as the pushstick passes the guard, it has a tendency to push the board INTO the blade! If there's a pushstick design that works with this type of setup, I haven't found it.

I always use pushsticks and almost every cut employs a featherboard. I stay clear of the blade's path and NEVER, EVER reach across the blade. I feel technique at the tool is THE most important safety precaution. Once in a while on HGTV you'll see them using a tablesaw and their technique always gives me the willies as does really early NYW episodes. Also, if you haven't seen the video of the SawStop inventor, it's worth a look. He has the worst tablesaw technique I've ever seen. He needed to invent that device for his own safety.

[Peter Quinn]

No guard for me here. The factory model on the PM66 was a scary piece of rubbish. Unusable. I have made no attempt to replace it with something better, though I have taken other safety steps. I have a tall fence that replaces the stock fence plate and stops one from pushing any close cuts through by hand. I have a lot of push blocks. I have a good splitter. I have good feather boards and a power feed. But that stock guard? Hard to call that thing a safety feature except to the extent that it makes you not want to use the saw, and a saw that is not used will hurt no one.

[mreza Salav]

Both guard and splitter ALWAYS (unless cannot do the cut with).
Eventhough I have a Sawstop, I keep the guard so that I know my hand isn't supposed to be in that zone, AND, for dust collection.

143163

[michael osadchuk]

sign above my General table saw:

"SAW IS FASTER THAN FINGERS
10" blade w/60 teeth will have
2,043 teeth pass thru my fingers
before I can pull back my hand"

..but I think that's an exaggeration and anyway, with my superior reaction
time, I bet I can pull back my bleeding finger stumps after contact with
only several hundred carbide teeth (smiley)

.... after a decade of largely not using the stock guard (because it was awkward, etc.), a couple of years ago I got a Sharkguard and use it because it works and can be removed/reattached within 30 seconds and has the major side benefit of dust collection.....

.... about only using the ts when attentive and focussed which was my rule/practice, along with the above sign: problem is, as we get older many of us, perhaps all of us, have "senior citizen's moments" of inattentiveness that we are not aware of until an unexpected but usually harmless outcome occurs.... which is fine when we reach into the wrong kitchen cupboard in a 'mindless' moment but not so great if we have such a moment with spinning ts blade.....

best wishes,

michael

[Dennis Puskar]

David
Yes I use a blade guard all the time. If you get hurt don't blame the saw.

Dennis

[Mike Henderson]

I read that study referenced in FWW and the one really interesting factoid I found is that the rate of table saw accidents remained essentially constant over the study period, even though safety devices were added to the saws over that time. This would seem to indicate that the safety devices are not effective, or people are not using them.

I just ordered a SawStop to replace my Craftsman contractor's saw. I look at the price as having two components: One component is the cost of a good cabinet saw. The other component is an insurance policy against serious damage to my hands/fingers. While the insurance is a significant amount of money, I only have to make one payment and have protection for the rest of my life.

Mike

[Steven Green]

I've been working with a table saw for 45 years. Don't use a blade guard and whether it's pure luck or ocd safety habits I've never had a flesh eating accident. Dropped a piece of stock on a running blade once, but that's it. I do free hand on a table saw all the time to make another point. That's why contractors saws show up on worksites. They are the only saw you can do it safely with.

[Al Willits]

This topic seems to come up every so often and the results are usually the same, some don't use it, some sometimes use and those who use them when ever possible.

Easy answer, if you don't use it that's up to you, but if you take a few fingers off, nobodies to blame but you.

Another question I think would be, does a poorly designed guard cause more problems than not using a guard at all?

The guard that came with my Delta Hybrid saw was poorly built, unpleasant to use and when a clip fell off while using it, I dumped it and bought a Shark.

Black and white as far as using then.

Not using a guard kinda reminds of the statement, "Hey Bubba, hold my beer and watch this....." :D


Al

[Christopher Stahl]

Brett-Guard M50P overarm guard with dust collection user here. This is attached to my Unisaw. At first, using the guard was awkward, but I grew to love it. I mean, anybody is going to feel this way when they start using one, just have to be patient and get used to it. I don't find it hinders my view at all. It's a nice design and very solid. Well worth the money.

I do have to say that I plan to purchase a euro slider at some point down the road, sometime within 5 years i figure. Just a light years ahead. Hoping to luck out on some fantastic deal at one of the shows like IWF or AWFS that will encourage an earlier purchase.

[Rob Wright]

I use it all the time - now...

Like everyone - or most of us here - one of the first things I did when I setup my Grizzly 1023S Table saw (10 years ago) was to remove/ not install the factory guard. It was junk in my mind and I was safe and cautious all the time/ verytime. About 4 years ago I had a kickback accident, hit me just above the groin, I quickly yanked my hand back, somehow not dragging it over the blade and twisted my body counter clockwise, then 2 seconds later the off-cut on the left side caught the edge of the blade and came and hit me in the hip. I literally dropped my pants and underwear right there in my garage to make sure everything was intact and there. It was turning black and blue immediately, abdomen hurt but no puncture thank goodness. I found my religion that day. It happened so fast

When I got enough nerve to actually go out and turn on the saw again -the guard went on the machine for the first time and hasn't come off since. I decided right there and then that if I can't make the cut with the guard on - it doesn't get made on the saw. This includes dado and non through cuts. I have a router that I can do them on. Just my experience and I am glad it turned out OK. I don't know what I would have done if I would have lost some fingers off of my right hand.

[Tom Hammond]

:confused: Do you think you had especially bad habits to start with? If so, maybe you can decrease your risk. If not, what changes do you think would significantly lower your risk?

No... no bad "habits." I rip a lot of narrow cuts the same way most others do... I have my right hand on the fence, with my ring finger and pinky over the top, middle and index fingers on the face or against the work, and the thumb pushing. Have done this for 40 years. This time, in retrospect, the blade was too high and I just... for no good reason... lifted my thumb off the work and into the blade. btw- when I say 'narrow' I mean less 4-6 inches... but really narrow I just grab a homemade pushstick. Will probably widen the amount I use a stick on now.

[Wade Lippman]

I never used one until last year when I got a Brett overhead. Love it, don't know how I lived without it. (Thanks Amazon, for having it 75% off!)

To the poor soul who cut himself; I hope it heals well. I cut myself on a bandsaw 3 years ago (nearly cutting the finger tip off); it looks normal, but still doesn't feel right. (yeah, I push with a scrap block now)
BUT not having a push stick is just stupid. There are plenty of cuts that are not safe without one. I use mine rather less now that I have an overhead guard, but there are still times...

[Bill ThompsonNM]

I didn't use a guard for 20 years on my Delta Contractors saw.. it really got in the way and was a PITA to remove and replace.. Recently, however after trading up to a used Unisaw.. I reconsidered and found a great price for an overarm Brettguard on Amazon. It's great! Combined with the Exaktor sliding table I just installed I really feel a lot safer about most cuts. The Unisaw helps also.. I can recall cutting 1 3/4 inch oak or maple countertops with the contractor saw.. and when that blade starts stalling it sure makes everything more complicated, including keeping the board straight so you don't get a kickback....

Within a week it felt odd to not use the guard, which is good since that's when you need to be extra careful... Bill

[Chip Lindley]

I certainly relate to those who have found blade guards inconvenient and a pain! My use an over-arm guard is for its DC capabilities more than for safety during redundant ripping or sizing of sheet goods. A cleaner shop is a safer shop! Other operations (tenon-cutting, cross-cut sled) don't lend themselves well to a guard. I will take my chances.