Laguna LT16HD - 4 wire to 3 wire

[Dan Wiese]

Just got a one year old Laguna 16hd with 4.5 hp phase 1 motor and it was setup with a 4 wire plug and my garage has a 30 amp 3 wire plug. The connection box on the Laguna as it is currently wired from left to right has a black wire, red wire, open slot, white wire and a ground. My new 3 wire electrical cable has a black, white and green wire. If I match up the black to black, skip the red since this is a 3 wire and it is not in the cable, white to white and green to ground will this work. I don't know that much about electicity but thought I would see if anyone has some basic knowledge about this type of wiring. I can always get an electrician but thought if this is a simple question with a simple answer, I would try here first. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Willard Foster]

Is your outlet 120 volt or 220 volt? Is your current plug (on the saw) 2 flat prongs and 1 round?

Bill

[Stephen Saar]

Your plan to match up colors will not work. Depending upon how the bandsaw is setup you might need to run new wires. Basically here is how a 4 wire is setup (normally)

Black - Hot 110 from ground
Red - Hot 110 from ground
White - Netural Ground
Green - Safety Ground

So between Black and Red you have 220, between black and white, or red and white you have 110 volts. If the bandsaw requires both 110, and 220 then you will need a proper 4 prong plug, if the bandsaw only really requires 220, then you can take off the old plug and put on a new plug and only connect the black, red, and green wires.

-Stephen

[Dan Wiese]

I left a few things out. The service is 220 and I have the locking 3 prong outlet. The motor is a 230v baldor but I don't know if it requires a 4 wires setup to make it run and was hoping to get by with a 3 wire setup. I contacted laguna and they said to check the wire diagram on the motor but I couldn't find one. Sounds like i'd better contact an electrician. Thanks guys for your input!

[Loren Bengtson]

As Stephen says, the reason for four wires is to provide 110 volts to something in addition to the 220 volts to run the large motor.

A standard 220 volt circuit uses two hot wires, usually red and black, plus a safety ground, usually green, for a total of three wires. The ground should never carry current under normal circumstances.

It sounds like Laguna needed 110 volts for something in that machine (possibly the switches or controls), hence the four wires.

If you wire the machine the way you want to, it almost certainly will not run. I suspect there is a slight possibility that you could destroy something if you even plug it in that way, let alone attempt to start it.

Contact an electrician. He will probably want the wiring diagram from Laguna.

Good luck,
-- Loren

[Van Huskey]

I left a few things out. The service is 220 and I have the locking 3 prong outlet. The motor is a 230v baldor but I don't know if it requires a 4 wires setup to make it run and was hoping to get by with a 3 wire setup. I contacted laguna and they said to check the wire diagram on the motor but I couldn't find one. Sounds like i'd better contact an electrician. Thanks guys for your input!


For the wire diagram you might find it if you follow the wire to the actual motor, open the cover plate up and look underneath the plate.

[Dick Strauss]

Does your BS have a light or the EZ tension indicator? Possibly the 110V leg is for some accessory and won't prevent the saw from running?

[Van Huskey]

Does your BS have a light or the EZ tension indicator? Possibly the 110V leg is for some accessory and won't prevent the saw from running?


I was thinking about this but I can't think of anything 120 on a 16HD. I have never seen a light on one and the tension indicator remote but mechanical. I would love to see what is going on but my bet it needs three wire but who ever put the cord on before just wired it with four anf just attached the ground to the motor chassis.

[Wes Grass]

I have the same saw, same age. In my connection housing, there's a blue and brown wire on the left, going from the top of the terminal block into the saw frame. Green and yellow ground is on the right.

Your 2 hot leads, black and white in this case, attach where the blue and brown wires are. Doesn't matter which one is which. Ground goes where it's obvious.

If you have a 4th wire from the terminal block disappearing into the frame of the saw, then I'm as baffled as you are. Might have originally been a 3 phase saw that the motor was swapped out on. According to the wiring diagram, it'd be blue, brown, and black from the left. No open slot between brown and black. If there's no black, hook up the 2 you've got and flip the switch ;-)

The wiring is different internally, 3ph to 1ph, but the connections on the switch are labeled the same. So it's possible swapping a couple wires around converts from 3ph to 1ph. Best to get a manual from Laguna if you can and check the wire orientation.

As for blowing it up, I somehow managed to connect one of my hot leads to the ground terminal, and all it did was buzz when I pulled the stop button out. Didn't even blow the breaker it was on.

[Dan Wiese]

Wes, your Laguna HD16 sounds like it's the same as mine. I was providing the color of wires leading from the previous 4 wire electrical line into the machine vs from inside the machine to the box. The machines is less than a year old and has the phase 1 motor it came with originally.

On the connector box like your HD, the top row of connectors has a brown wire on the left side coming from inside the column of the HD, to the right is a blue wire, next is a connector with no wire on it, and to the right of that is a connector with a yellow-green stripe wire and it has a crossover yellow-green stripe wire from that connector to the ground.

So, if I wire mine the same as yours, I'll go black to brown, white to blue and green to the ground and should be set. Thank you for your help!

[Tony Shea]

Wait a minute. You need to find out where this white wire in the BS terminal box is going. The cord going into the terminal box has a neutral (white wire)? On the other side of the termial what is connected to it? You need to find out where this neutral wire is going to, that way you can be certain that it needs a neutral or not. If it doesn't then you are fine with a 3-wire but if the saw needs 120V somewhere then you will need a 4-wire outlet. Installing a 4-wire plug is easy and only requires you to run a 3 wire romex or mc from your panel to the plug. First thing is locate the neutral (white wire) in the saw and where it goes. Then I can help you, am a liscensed electrician. Post some pics if you can of the terminal box.

[Wade Lippman]

Wait a minute. You need to find out where this white wire in the BS terminal box is going. The cord going into the terminal box has a neutral (white wire)? On the other side of the termial what is connected to it? You need to find out where this neutral wire is going to, that way you can be certain that it needs a neutral or not. If it doesn't then you are fine with a 3-wire but if the saw needs 120V somewhere then you will need a 4-wire outlet. Installing a 4-wire plug is easy and only requires you to run a 3 wire romex or mc from your panel to the plug. First thing is locate the neutral (white wire) in the saw and where it goes. Then I can help you, am a liscensed electrician. Post some pics if you can of the terminal box.

What he said. My guess is that the white wire doesn't connect to anything; that was just the cord the last guy happened to have. But you have to confirm that before doing anything.

[Van Huskey]

What he said. My guess is that the white wire doesn't connect to anything; that was just the cord the last guy happened to have. But you have to confirm that before doing anything.

+1 That would be my guess as well. The thread is frustrating (not the OPs fault mind you) because it would take less than 5 minutes to sort out and wire IF one could see what is going on in the terminal box but on a forum it can take days to sort out.

[Tony Shea]

+1 That would be my guess as well. The thread is frustrating (not the OPs fault mind you) because it would take less than 5 minutes to sort out and wire IF one could see what is going on in the terminal box but on a forum it can take days to sort out.

Agreed...That's the general feeling with most questions I have or others have on forums. If only we had the technology to transport ourselves Jetson's style. Maybe one of these days. I have many times needed help with technique but live so far away from most supportive people that I usually need to read about it and figure it out that way. Can be very tough.

[Dan Wiese]

As you can tell I am pretty much an idiot when it comes to wiring. Attached is a pic of the HD16's connection box. It's hard to see here, but the white wire from the previous owner's setup is connected to the 4th post to the right (directly below the yellow-green wire in the post above it). I know it's like the blind leading the blind here when I give you bits and pieces but let me know if you think Wes' instructions will work okay.

[Tony Shea]

Thanks for the picture, is a huge help! They for some reason decided to also use the neutral as a ground, which is kinda odd. All you should need to do is use a 3 wire cord end. You need a wire with a Black, White, and ground (bare or green). If it were me I would use actual cord cable, not romex like is used before you. Make sure there is the proper cable connector going into the terminal box to take the strain off the cable connection under the terminals. The Black should go to the first terminal (brown, where their black is landed) and the White should go to the next (blue, where their red is landed) the ground should go to the screw terminal with the two green/yellow wires (where their white is landed). The manufacturer has already bonded the terminal box for you which is why they have two green/yellow under the one terminal with one of them connected to the post. This peice of equipment does NOT need a neutral which is why they have left that one terminal on the terminal block empty. Size the wire acordingly, looks to be #10awg but double check this for yourself. If this is confusing I could try to explain it better. If you need more help feel free to PM me and maybe we could chat about it. This is actually pretty easy and your picture definitly cleared things up.

[Van Huskey]

Tony is 100% correct, took about 10 seconds to figure it out with a picture!!! The LT16HD needs a 30 amp breaker and I would use 10ga for the cord and also not use Romex as Tony mentioned, too stiff.

[Wes Grass]

That's exactly what I have. You want the green wire in your new cord plugged into the terminal strip where the white one currently is. Nothing needs to be attached to the post, as it's connected by jumper to the terminal strip.

So, they basically had the chassis ground attached to both ground and neutral. Not a great idea, but probably not something that would have killed anybody as they're connected together back at the box anyway. But if there had been a 110 circuit in the saw somewhere so the neutral was being 'used', then I don't know ...

[Tony Shea]

That neutral to ground connection is odd especially if someone is running this machine off of a sub panel fed from their main panel. In a sub panel it is code to have the neutral bus separated from the ground bus inside the panel, therefore if this machine was plugged in the connection inside would have neggated that fact. You would ultimatly end up with a parallel connection of the neutral to ground all the way from a main panel and this connection would also tie in all the neutrals to the grounds in the sub panel. I've never been real sure why this connection in a sub panel is code and what the negative effect is but know that it is not allowed. It probably would have never caused an issue but is just not the right way to do it.

[Dan Wiese]

You all have provided so much help and advise and clearly pointed me in the right direction. Will probably not get this hooked up until this weekend. I was somewhat nervous posting this being my first time but I got more help than I ever expected. Thank you all!!!!