Table saw alignment

[Chuck Isaacson]

So I went to Rockler today to get some toys and ended up leaving with the Superbar dial indicator. I am not exactly happy with the functionality of it, but it works one the less. I might actually take it back and get something else. But in the process of using it, I discovered that my table top it about .010" out of alignment with the blade from front to back. Is this something that I really need to worry about? It seems like a lot, but is it really?

[Joe Kieve]

Chuck,
If you're using your new toy in the miter slot and it's showing .010 out, then yes, that's a little much. Shouldn't be more than .001-.002 from front to back using the same tooth each time. There have been several threads here on SMC that show how to align miter slot to saw blade.
Keep the indicator, you can use it for a number of things, like checking runout on sawblades, drillpress spindle, setting jointer knives, the list goes on.

joe :p

[Adam Strong]

The Superbar is a bit over priced. Consider returning it and making your own. Here is one I made with a HF dial indicator I have had for some time, scrap cherry, and some hardware I had lying around.

And to echo the previous post... .010" is a bit much. Try to get it as close to .000" as possible.

[Randy Rizzo]

Try this website http://www.tablesawalignment.com/nologin.htm probably the best info on table saw alignment I've come across. I happened across this on another thread here.

[Joe Kieve]

Adam,
You been in my shop?? Your pics look just like the one I made with a HF indicator. Works good doesn't it. The only thing I may have done differently was that I split the piece that slides in the miter slot on the band saw down to the screw hole. I used a flat head stove bolt and countersunk the screw hole. That way, when I tighten the locking knob, it swells the piece just enough so that there is no slop when I slide it from one end to the other.

joe

[glenn bradley]

I'm at about .001" and use a shop made jig (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=117955&d=1241992924). Spend that money on wood :)

[Adam Strong]

Adam,
You been in my shop?? Your pics look just like the one I made with a HF indicator. Works good doesn't it. The only thing I may have done differently was that I split the piece that slides in the miter slot on the band saw down to the screw hole. I used a flat head stove bolt and countersunk the screw hole. That way, when I tighten the locking knob, it swells the piece just enough so that there is no slop when I slide it from one end to the other.

joe

Works great! After using the tool for a while, I have thought of doing exactly what you did to the miter bar. I cut the miter bar snug enough in the miter slot to hold itself in place with no play and the poly/wax finish build up makes it almost too snug. If things loosen up, another coat of two of poly should be all I need to snug things up a bit.

[Chuck Isaacson]

Well, I went from about .010" out of alignment to .025". I cant get this thing straight to save my life!!!!. It is a huge pain in the A$$!!!. I worked on it for at least 4 hours last night. I have the whole thing torn apart pretty much. Took off the extension table and fence rail. But I still cannot get it straight!!!!! Anyone in the Madison area that can give me a hand would be great!!!!

[Glen Blanchard]

Chuck - What kind of saw is it? By chance, is it a contractors saw? If it is, do a search here for PALS. Those who have used them on a contractors saw, seem to swear by them.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2020591/PALS-Contractors-Table-Saw-Alignment-System.aspx

If your saw is not a contractor saw, then, ignore this post.

[Chuck Isaacson]

It is a General 650... Thanks though..

[Dave Gaul]

It is a General 650... Thanks though..


Chuck,

I assume then that your saw has cabinet mounted trunions then...

My best advice is to take your time a be patient! I lined up my R4511 using the stick-and-screw method, and it was not quite simple! It took lots of trial and error to get it just right, I haven't measure yet, but I'm probably ~.001" as I have no burn marks or binding when ripping.

[Glen Blanchard]

It is a General 650... Thanks though..

In that case, I assume that there are four bolts that you loosen to adjust the table. Try loosening one of the four just enough to act as a pivot point. Loosen the others more so you can rotate the table around the pivot point. This may give you more control. From there, tap the table in the direction needed using a dead blow hammer.

[Lee Schierer]

When I did my saw I had problems with the star lock washers sliding back into the same grooves hey had created in the castings. I carefully rotated the lock washers so the teeth didn't line up with the old slots and then when I tightened the bolts the carrige stayed where it was.

[Chuck Isaacson]

I have tried the whole pivot thing and it has not worked. Yes it is cabinet mounted trunnion. My next thing was going to be using clamps to try and get it straight. The top will move freely, but it work get straight. Also when I tighten some of the corners, the top moves with it.. A real pain!!!!

[Ray Newman]

When I adjusted top on my Unisaw, I

--First removed the blade to check for arbor run out. Might as well check all bases.

Then,
--Remove the extension wings.

--Loosen the 4 bolts holding the top to the cabinet, leaving them tight enough so that top can only be moved by tapping with a rubber mallet.
--Once aligned, tightened the bolts on the opposite corners, for 'zample left front; right rear. Don't fully tightened.

Tightened one about 'half-way"; then do the other. Check alignment. If necessary, move the top by judicious application of the rubber mallet
--If OK, tightened the remaining two bolts (left rear, right front) as above. Check alignment.

--If OK fully tighten all bolts (left front, right rear, then left rear, right front. Check alignment.

CAVEAT: It doesn't take much pressure to move the top further out of alignment.

I found that it is a chore that appears relatively easy, but can be a bit time consuming if you are too heavy handed and easily frustrated. If you don't move your saw, you'll probably only need to do it once. My Unisaw was about 15 years old when we moved interstate. The top shifted a bit from the almost 800 mile trip in the moving van. Haven't touched it since.

What I am dreading is changingt the knives on my 15" surface plane.:eek: The 8" jointer has the "DISPOZ-A-BLADE" system on it. Takes about 15 minutes to change the double-sided blades
http://www.estausa.com/index.html

[Chuck Isaacson]

I am trying to avoid have to remove the wings. They were set at the factory and would prefer not to do that. It would also require another person to do it. I am solo.

[Rob Steffeck]

Chuck,

I just finished setting up my General 650 last week. I too initially had some alignment problems and couldn't get it below 0.006" no matter what. What I ended up discovering was that the slots in the cabinet mounting tabs were not quite wide enough to allow the table to move the appropriate amount (see pic). I enlarged them slightly in width with a file. I wonder if you may be running up against the same issue.

Once I enlarged the slots, I could use the normal alignment procedures and it was very easy. I'm now at about .002". I could have gotten a bit less, but figured it was close enough. FYI - I am using a good combination square and feeler gauges.

143025

[Chuck Isaacson]

I GOT IT!!!!!! I was a big pain in the place where I spend all to much time sitting on!!!!

I ended up putting two parallel clamps on it. Each clamp pulling in opposite directions. I then would slowly crank them until I got it closer and closer. I dare to say that it is good within .0015. I will never if I ever have to loosen those bolts again. Now I just have to put the darn thing back together again. Thanks for all the help folks. This is why I love this place.

[Rob Steffeck]

Congratulations. I was going to try the clamp method initially as well, but then I decided that I shouldn't have to resort to that since it was a common adjustment. Thats when I discovered that slightly increasing the slot width made the alignment very easy. If you ever have to realign, you may want to check the slots.

Enjoy your saw. Other than this one small issue, I'm very impressed so far.

[Chuck Isaacson]

WTF!!!!!!!! I put the thing back together and now it is out by .010!!!!!!! What the heck is wrong with this thing??!!!!

[Rob Steffeck]

WTF!!!!!!!! I put the thing back together and now it is out by .010!!!!!!! What the heck is wrong with this thing??!!!!

Let me restate the problem I had. No matter how much I tried to move / rotate the table, I could not get it beyond a certain point. That point for me was .006" out of alignment. As you can see from the picture I originally posted, there are oblong slots. The width of the slot matters. Check out the following crude diagram:

143034

In the diagram, I am showing the table, table bolts (little blue circles within the slots), and cabinet slots. Note the direction of table top rotation combined with the pivot bolt (tightened one). For me, the slot circled in red was the problem because the bolt was hitting the side of the slot, not allowing the table top to rotate further. My guess is that you have a similar problem.

[Chuck Isaacson]

But the kicker is that I had it good. It was all set, now it is out again.

[Rob Steffeck]

But the kicker is that I had it good. It was all set, now it is out again.

This statement alone makes me feel its the slot issue. The fact that it moved back to its original position could indicate you are fighting something. You had to use a clamp to move the table far enough and the bolts do have some elasticity. They could have pulled themselves back to the original position, which for you is a table out of alignment by .010".

Think of it like trying to crank your bevel wheel beyond the 45 degree stop. You may be able to force an extra half degree out of it, but it will be fighting to get back to 45.

Anyway, good luck.

[Chuck Isaacson]

I will have to take a closer look at it later.. Thanks for the info. Maybe they are having the same problems with lots of them...

[Joe Kieve]

Chuck,
Not sure, but this may help. If you can slide the top far enough, enlarge the holes in the cabinet a little bit with a drill bit. Then put a flat washer and a lock washer on the bolts to keep the top from moving when you tighten them.
Hope you get your problem solved soon.

joe

[Tom A Brown]

Just loosen one bolt enough for a pivot point. Loosen the rest where there is no pressure at all on the table. Replace the washers that are on the bolts with flat washers (at least two per bolt) and make sure you grease them. Get the measurement where you want it and tighten them slowly and not all the way. Keep watching your measurement and keep tapping and tightening in small increments. You will get there, it just takes patience. Chill out and go slow.