Constipated planer - Chip/Dust Collection

[Josh Bowman]

I have a 15” Delta DC 380 clone, with fresh sharpened blades. My DC is under slap 4” going to a Grizzly 2 HP 1600 CFM at 11” static G1029. The DC goes through a modified trash can cyclone top, (the modification is the plywood fin that is suppose to help keep the dust out of the bag. I’m planeing 2x?? sugar maple that’s dry. After about 2 or 3 passes the DC stops up at the planers dust hood with long shavings.
Before I give up on the 4” system, has anyone been here with a similar setup and been successful? I am finding the modification seems to dam up in the trash can and that may be some of the problem. But I am looking for success setups. Anyone got the solution?

[Bruce Page]

Josh, I have a similar DC, a 50-850 Delta with 4” hose that I plug directly into whichever machine I am using. I haven’t had any problems pulling shavings from my PM15. I think you might have a little too much going on with your plumbing.
Try going straight from the DC to the planer and see if that helps.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, it's tough to tell looking at photo's however;

1) it looks like you're using 4" flex from the collector to the cyclone lid, which is too small

2) It looks like you're going from the cyclone lid with 4" into a 4" plastic tee, too small, T fittings are a bad idea from an air flow perspective

3) Is the remainder of the ductwork 4"?

I would expect that a 15 inch planer would need 500 to 600 CFM of airflow. You might achieve that with a short length of 4" directly from your dust collector, so try that out as an experiment.

If it works OK, you then should then do the static loss calculations for your cyclone lid and duct work.

My friend has a similar planer and it works fine with 5" all the way to the planer hood. Someday he will upgrade the port in the hood to 5".

P.S. My Hammer A3-31 which is a 12" planer needs a 5" duct......Regards, Rod.

[Chuck Isaacson]

Not enough suck.....

[Dan Friedrichs]

Nice thread title :)

I'd suggest replacing your trashcan separator thing with a Thien baffle. It's a simple piece of plywood cut in a way that causes most everything to fall into the trashcan, with almost nothing going to the DC bags. Not quite as perfect as a cyclone, but significantly less complicated and expensive :)

Otherwise, Rod has good advice. Get rid of any flex hose that you can (the roughness of the walls adds a lot of friction, reducing airflow), keep the ducting as large as possible for as long as possible (so maybe use 5" or 6" ducting to/from your trashcan, then reduce when necessary), get rid of any T fittings (they cause abrupt change in the airflow, which adds significant loss of air volume), and generally do whatever you can to give the air a smooth, direct path. Gradual turns (45's instead of 90's), smooth-walled pipe (no rough flex hose, if possible), etc.

[Josh Bowman]

Josh, I have a similar DC, a 50-850 Delta with 4” hose that I plug directly into whichever machine I am using. I haven’t had any problems pulling shavings from my PM15. I think you might have a little too much going on with your plumbing.
Try going straight from the DC to the planer and see if that helps.
Good words, thanks. That is my next option is to move the stuff around, I really like that trash can though and wonder if I move the DC and it real close to the planer and temp. in the 4" plastic pipe, if that might help, I hate to move stuff around, but that things puts out the shavenings! 10 boards and 2 50 gallon trash bags of shavenings! This may just be the way it is. I wish I could get the underground to work. It does fine with table, band and radial arm saws. The planer is just over whelming it. The other post noted the Tee and that along with ever thing else could be an issue too.

[Peter Aeschliman]

My guess would be the trash can separator, the T-fitting, and all of the flex hose with hard turns before and after the separator.

So I have nothing original to say but I like the sound of my own voice (typing). :D:p

[Josiah Bartlett]

Another thing would be to check the gasket between the trash can and the lid for leaks. You could just be losing too much air.

[Josh Bowman]

Update, Update
I took alot your idea's and it did much better! Mainly I remove the chip collector trash can thing. I pulled the Tee off and not having stuff to keep it perfect, I had to use a flex hose to connect the underground to the DC. The results were remarkable. No chips in the planer....or on the planer bed, it even sucked them up! I was able to use the 4" underground plastic pipe.
Now, this is an older G1029, can the clear plastic bags be put on the bottom like the new ones and do I have to get them from Grizzly? Can you just use a contractor 50 gallon trash bag?
Lastly the fan screen seems to pack stuff in it now and stop up, I guess it's not prudent to remove it for fear of a chunk of wood going through...right?
Almost lastly, if I make a new tight fitting cap for the trash can, has some of you made that work ok with a planer.

[Bob Borzelleri]

Benefiber?:cool:

[Dan Friedrichs]

You can replace the bottom bag with a heavy plastic one if you want. But - that essentially halves the amount of filter surface you have (from 2 filter bags down to 1), so you'll get less airflow.

Are the bags you're using the stock bags? If so, they're probably letting lots of fine dust escape, which is a health hazard.

I'd replace the bottom bag with a plastic bag, and add a Thien baffle inside the existing metal ring on your dust collector. This will keep nearly all the dust in the bottom bag.

Then, you have essentially 2 good options for the top bag:
1) Replace the top bag with an oversized very fine filter bag (a company called American Fabric Filter can make you any size you like), or a canister-type filter (a company called Wynn Environmental will sell you one). This will keep your air much cleaner, and improve your airflow.

2) Vent outside, if possible. You can remove the top bag, and come up with a way to exhaust the air outside. This will DRASTICALLY improve your airflow, and improve your air quality (no fine dust inside). Obviously, your ability to do this will depend on your location, willingness to make holes in your walls, etc...


Many people cut out that guard on the DC inlet. Just don't suck up any REALLY big chunks :)

[Bruce Wrenn]

You said under ground piping? If it isn't insulated, the temperature may be low enough for condensation to occur. This would cause dry chips to stick to the pipe.

[Josh Bowman]

You said under ground piping? If it isn't insulated, the temperature may be low enough for condensation to occur. This would cause dry chips to stick to the pipe.
That might be true, but I've never had that problem. Tonight I actually located the problem:).
I rehooked everything back as was in the photos at the top. The Tee (that I agree shouldn't be there, got to figure something out there), The flex hose to the 15" planer that was not in the original pictures, but is the original design. With only the Trash Can Chip catcher thing removed, the system performed very well and only stopped up at the DC's inlet which HAD 2 plastic bars, braces I guess, because the chunk screen is metal and part of the fan inlet. Had is the operative word, I cut them out. Now it seems unless I really take a very large cut off, the hood, pipe, hoses and inlet stay clean. I just have to empty that dusty bag every 3 or so boards.
Thanks to all of you for your help.
Now I'm looking into mybe passing the exhaust outside and maybe have a damper control to allow me to use a Wynn filter indoors, if it's too cold outside to open a window.:D

[Jeff Sudmeier]

I had that exact same issue with my planer, 4" ducts, and a HF DC. What I ended up doing was cutting out the screen so that the long stringy chips wouldn't clog up the hose. Probably a bad idea but I don't have room for a trash can seperator.

What I would do if I were you would be to look up the Thein baffle, make one and then plumb it into your system with PVC, don't use flex as you won't be moving it around. Make the bends as gradual as possible.

Check out this thread on how to make your own wye to replace that T..

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=133487

[Curt Harms]

Nice thread title :)

I'd suggest replacing your trashcan separator thing with a Thien baffle. It's a simple piece of plywood cut in a way that causes most everything to fall into the trashcan, with almost nothing going to the DC bags. Not quite as perfect as a cyclone, but significantly less complicated and expensive :)

Otherwise, Rod has good advice. Get rid of any flex hose that you can (the roughness of the walls adds a lot of friction, reducing airflow), keep the ducting as large as possible for as long as possible (so maybe use 5" or 6" ducting to/from your trashcan, then reduce when necessary), get rid of any T fittings (they cause abrupt change in the airflow, which adds significant loss of air volume), and generally do whatever you can to give the air a smooth, direct path. Gradual turns (45's instead of 90's), smooth-walled pipe (no rough flex hose, if possible), etc.

I built a Thien baffle into my D.C. and it really helps keep the top filters clean. I don't know how a Thien baffle would work in a free standing "catcher" with 6" plumbing but my Table Saw to D.C. is all 6" and the Thien baffle works fine there. It's not a replacement for a real cyclone but it's a great bang-for-the-buck upgrade for single stage D.C.'s

[mark r johnson]

Photo 4 shows a big time crimp in the trash can inlet hose.

[Josh Bowman]

Photo 4 shows a big time crimp in the trash can inlet hose.
It looks that way doesn't it? It really has a gentle radius there. I guess it's a reflection. Thank you for looking. The can turned out to be the problem. I may try a Thein lid for it and make it a tighter fit. Right now I'm bypassing the can and going to the bag. The collector hasn't stopped up since.
Josh

[David Hostetler]

What I see in that system are bends, kinks, too much flex hose, and a trash can separator lid that uses a sail to keep it from sucking the shavings back up into the DC. Not ideal to say the least...

For starters, google "Thien Cyclone" and get over to Phil Thien's web site, get the instructions and get to building a Thien separator lid, that will remove one HUGE bottle neck in your system...

Next, chances are good your lines under the floor are junked up with shavings. Use a fish tape and free up your lines.

Get rid of as many of the bends, turns and twists as you can, each and every time the air has to change direction, it looses speed (CFM) and thus its capacity to carry the dust and shavings...

Next shorten up your flex hose as much as is feasable. You need flex line to allow for movement, vibration in your system, but keep it to a minimum. Every bump in your system slows the air down as well, so each and every single ridge in your hose slows the air down....

From the photo, it looks like your filter bags are pretty old, a lot of those old bags let pretty much everything but air flow freely through them. It's time to upgrade that thing to a decent canister and clear plastic lower bag. You will get MUCH better air flow, and filtration... Grizzly, Wynn Environmental, and others sell cartridges.

Make certain you aren't sucking through all of your circuits at once. Say you have branches going to the planer, a jointer, a table saw, a band saw etc... Make sure each of those branches are closed off with a blast gate. There is NO WAY you are going to get effective dust collection if all of your branches are wide open....

Others have mentioned the Tees as well, so I will leave it alone. But to say the least, you really need to rethink the way the plumbing is routed... Too many bends, and not smooth transitions...

[Josh Bowman]

Guys! Thank you for all the help.:o
The thing will suck the chrome off a bumper hitch now. As I said earlier, I simply removed the trash can separator and it does great. Yes I agree that I still have a few feet of flex, but it's at a minimum. There are no kinks in the hoses, to spite the picture #4 looking to the contrary. My original question dealt with the ability for a 4" thin wall plastic pipe able to deal with a 15" planer. When I removed the junky separator, it did the trick. I've now planed over 100 gallons of shavings. I do intend to try the Thein separator, it would be nice to just empty the trash can instead of the dusty old bag. I'm also looking into a Wynn filter and the plastic bags.
Thanks again.