Cleaning A TS Blade

[Brandon Weiss]

I just noticed yesterday what I consider to be an unacceptable amount of pitch on my 50T Ridgid TS Blade. I'd like to clean it off without going so far as to buying a whole cleaning kit for the blade. Is a wire brush going to damage the carbide teeth? I tend to worry that it will so I'm thinking about getting some soapy water and a stiff plastic brush to do the cleaning. Thoughts, recommendations?

[Marty Paulus]

Best suggestion I have heard is a 12" pizza pan and some simple green cleaner. Soak for a few and hit it with a brass brush.

[Jim Terrill]

I have had good luck with goo-gone, either the liquid or the gel, let it sit for a few minutes then go to wipe it off, repeat if necessary. After all the gunk is removed I clean it with greenworks (similar to simple green) and I'm good to go.

[Dave Gaul]

There is an article somewhere 'round the 'net with extensive research on what works best for cleaning blades... I think the author might even be a SMC contributor/member...

I read the article, and from what I gather, a soak in just about any kind of de-greaser will work just fine, followed by a stiff bristle brush.

Haven't tried this myself, but one idea I liked was to lay your blade on a piece of cling wrap, soak with degreaser, the wrap up with the cling wrap for an hour or so, then rinse, hit with brush and dry... saves from needing a container wide enough to soak a 10 or 12 inch blade...

[Jeff Monson]

Brandon, I use exactly what your thoughts were, soapy water and a good plastic bristle brush. It takes no time at all and costs nothing.

[Caleb Larru]

I buy cheap frisbees in the spring and use those to soak my blades in simple green for a few minutes. Then I put them on a towel and scrub with a brush, rinse, and then dry them.

[Raymond Fries]

...lazy susan types that was designed for a corner kitchen cabinet. It has a sidewall about 3/4" high so you never have to worry about the bit cleaner running out. Another nice feature is the flat part on one side. This makes it really easy to store on edge by my bench and I do not have to worry about it rolling away.

It also makes it easy to just turn the blade around as you clean the teeth.:D

Works for me...

[Van Huskey]

I use simple green, let it soak then I use a stiff plastic bristle brush. I know brass is soft but just feel better with the plastic touching my expensive blades.

[Brent Ring]

Best suggestion I have heard is a 12" pizza pan and some simple green cleaner. Soak for a few and hit it with a brass brush.

I use a 5 gallon bucket lid and a brass or nylon brush and a watered down Simple Green as well. Works Great.

[Tony Shea]

I have heard that some harsh chemicals can be dangerous to use on carbide tipped blades. Something to do with the bond of the carbide being broken down with certain chemicals and could possibly cause a tooth to come free from a spinning blade. It's actually in some of Infinity's instructions.

So does this qualify such degreasers like Action Blaster made by Tipton which is designed to clean firearms actions? I have used this stuff on most of my tools, especially brand new ones that come caked in packing grease. It cuts through all that stuff and leaves a nice pine scent behind. Now I'm hesitant on using it on any blades, which I'd hate to stop because it works so damn good. Does anyone else know what the harsh chemicals are and why it may cause the issue?

[Michael MacDonald]

Brandon -- could you upload a picture of the condition of your blade? I have not yet felt I needed to cleen by blades yet (I am relatively new, and I just tossed my original stock blade because it was warped). i would like to see what too much pitch looks like... sorry to impose.

[Neil Brooks]

Tony:

Here's (http://www.woodbin.com/misc/sawblade_cleaning.htm) what I've read, but ... the notion seems pretty controversial, around here ;)

I use somewhere between 1:1 and 3:1 water:Simple Green with good results. I've also used citrus degreaser with similarly good results.

[Matt Day]

I discovered that a standard frisbee is almost exactly the right size to hold a 10" TS blade. It's a good way to reduce the amount of Simple Green used per cleaning too. After letting it sit for a couple hours, a toothbrush is all that's really needed to get the pitch off and a wire brush will get stubborn spots off.

[Kevin Womer]

I just noticed yesterday what I consider to be an unacceptable amount of pitch on my 50T Ridgid TS Blade. I'd like to clean it off without going so far as to buying a whole cleaning kit for the blade. Is a wire brush going to damage the carbide teeth? I tend to worry that it will so I'm thinking about getting some soapy water and a stiff plastic brush to do the cleaning. Thoughts, recommendations?

Any type of cleaner like Simple Green and a brass brush, if this makes you uncomfortable I've used an old toothbrush and it works almost as well. I also dry them toroughly afterwards. Works for me.

[Jason Hanko]

I also use the frisbee and plastic bristled brush, but my solvent of choice is kerosene. More smelly, but cheaper too.

[Glen Butler]

I had a nasty blade that I wasn't looking forward to cleaning. I just used dish soap and most of it came right off. A pastic dish brush got the few "tough" spots.

[Brandon Weiss]

Brandon -- could you upload a picture of the condition of your blade? I have not yet felt I needed to cleen by blades yet (I am relatively new, and I just tossed my original stock blade because it was warped). i would like to see what too much pitch looks like... sorry to impose.

No imposition at all! The problem is, I can't get my camera to focus on the blade teeth. All you'll get from the picture is a gold blur. I promise there's a TS blade there though..... The majority of the pitch is likely from a bunch of douglas fir studs I cut/surfaced last weekend which had a little stain on it. Trying to salvage the boards for another project. Should have just bought more studs but the salvage was too tempting because the studs were near perfect straight and no warping when I grabbed them. Regardless, the pitch is wood colored gunk that's gathered on the tooth face. It's kind of like dry wood clay stuck on the blade. Not sure if this description will help you or not.

Thank you all for the advice. I think before I try soaking I might try the toothbrush and soapy water idea. If that doesn't work I think I'll dig into the Simple Green solution a little further. It's a popular one based on the responses but the articles, especially the one from the Simple Green rep, about the chemicals damaging the carbide worries me a little bit. Maybe a bit over-cautious, but I'd rather be safe then sorry. I have quick reflexes but I bet the flying carbide tooth would win that battle....

[Loren Bengtson]

No imposition at all! The problem is, I can't get my camera to focus on the blade teeth. All you'll get from the picture is a gold blur.

Brandon,

You're not supposed to take the picture while the saw is running!

-- Loren

[Loren Bengtson]

You guys are all working waaaay to hard. Here’s the easy and safe way to get pitch off saw blades:Buy a box of washing soda. The stuff our local stores have is Arm and Hammer brand and is labeled, "Super Washing Soda." It’s in the laundry section of well-stocked supermarkets.
Buy a box of washing soda. The stuff our local stores have is Arm and Hammer brand and is labeled, "Super Washing Soda." It’s in the laundry section of well-stocked supermarkets.
Mix about 1/4 to 1/2 cup of washing soda with 1-2 quarts of HOT water. It doesn’t have to be scalding, but the soda won’t dissolve well in cold water.
Place the saw blade into an appropriate sized pan and pour in enough soda solution to cover it.
Wait 10 seconds to 1 minute. If you have something else to do, it won’t hurt to let it soak longer, but it’s not necessary.
Brush the pitch off the blade with a toothbrush or similar tool. A wire brush is not necessary, but can be used if you insist.
Rinse and dry the blade and put it away.
You can put your hands into this solution without worrying that it will peel the skin of them. It dissolves burned on pitch like there’s no tomorrow.


Happy cleaning,
– Loren

[Dave Cav]

Dollar store oven cleaner.
Old toothbrush.
Old pizza pan.
Open door/windows.
Sink and hot water (or just the water faucet outside the shop).
Five minutes and you're done.
(Yes, you should wear rubber gloves and eye protection.)

[Cody Colston]

I put the blade in a plastic oil-change container I got at the auto parts store. I spray on BORG oven cleaner, let it soak for a couple minutes and then brush with a brass-bristled brush. I rinse the blade off at the sink in my shop and dry with a paper towel or air hose.

I've read the statements about harsh cleaners damaging the carbide brazing and I've also read credible rebuttals to those statements with documented testing for support.

Meanwhile, I've noticed no adverse effect to my WWII blade over the past three years from the oven cleaner. I'll keep using it until I see evidence to support the damage claims.

In your shop, YMMV.

[Brandon Weiss]

Brandon,

You're not supposed to take the picture while the saw is running!

-- Loren

What?! Next thing you're going to tell me is I have to turn the saw off to clean the blade too!:rolleyes:

[Fred Belknap]

How about just running them through the dishwasher?

[Tony Shea]

I've read the statements about harsh cleaners damaging the carbide brazing and I've also read credible rebuttals to those statements with documented testing for support.

Meanwhile, I've noticed no adverse effect to my WWII blade over the past three years from the oven cleaner. I'll keep using it until I see evidence to support the damage claims.


I would say that the purpose of the documented testing and the credible rebuttals posted around is to prevent others from experiencing the dangerous, maybe fatal, effects of losing carbide peices off a spinning blade. I'm pretty sure the evidence that you'll see will most likely happen at the most inoportune time, such as during the spinning of the blade. It shouldn't have to take an injury for us to learn a lesson as this is the point of the safety percuations we take in all aspects of life. It like driving down the road drunk continiously since you haven't experienced any ill effects of it yet. But once a person does experience the ill effects then they'll think about stopping. No disrespect meant, just trying to pound home that the warnings are out there for a reason 90% of the time.

Seems as though most, if not all, companies that use some sort of braising to bond the carbide warn against using caustic chemicals such as oven cleaners to clean their blades. Most of the time following the manufactures instructions is a good idea.

[Tom Walz]

Here are articles on cleaning saw blades. I apologize for the missing pictures. Our store had grown to the point where we had to move it. The “seamless transition” wasn’t and we are in week three of straightening it out.

Cleaning saw blades
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/pages/Cleaning-Saw-Blades.html

Saw tips in oven cleaner
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/pages/Saw-Tips-in-Oven-Cleaner.html

Can cleaners hurt saw blades
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/pages/Can-cleaners-harm-saw-blades.html


Tom Walz

[Dave Gaul]

Here are articles on cleaning saw blades. I apologize for the missing pictures. Our store had grown to the point where we had to move it. The “seamless transition” wasn’t and we are in week three of straightening it out.

Cleaning saw blades
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/pages/Cleaning-Saw-Blades.html

Saw tips in oven cleaner
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/pages/Saw-Tips-in-Oven-Cleaner.html

Can cleaners hurt saw blades
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/pages/Can-cleaners-harm-saw-blades.html


Tom Walz


These are the ones I spoke about in my earlier post! LOTS of info!

[Cody Colston]

I would say that the purpose of the documented testing and the credible rebuttals posted around is to prevent others from experiencing the dangerous, maybe fatal, effects of losing carbide peices off a spinning blade. I'm pretty sure the evidence that you'll see will most likely happen at the most inoportune time, such as during the spinning of the blade. It shouldn't have to take an injury for us to learn a lesson as this is the point of the safety percuations we take in all aspects of life. It like driving down the road drunk continiously since you haven't experienced any ill effects of it yet. But once a person does experience the ill effects then they'll think about stopping. No disrespect meant, just trying to pound home that the warnings are out there for a reason 90% of the time.

Seems as though most, if not all, companies that use some sort of braising to bond the carbide warn against using caustic chemicals such as oven cleaners to clean their blades. Most of the time following the manufactures instructions is a good idea.

You conveniently left off the last statement of my post...

In your shop, YMMV.

I think the drunk driving to oven cleaner analogy is a bit of a reach, but you do what you want in your shop because I'll certainly do what I want in mine. Personally, I think lawyers have more input into mfg's instructions than their engineers do. If something is remotely possible (and most things are) there is a warning clause in the manual.

BTW, Forrest Manufacturing (whose blade I run) recommends cleaners such as Formula 409 or Fantastik which Freud says will also damage the binder. Forrest recommends against oven cleaner only because they say it tarnishes the steel plate and removes any plastic coating...including the logo. It's done neither to my blade.

Did you know that woods high in phenolic acid will corrode the cobalt binder? (FWW No. 202 Tools & Shops) Cedar is one of those woods, especially when wet or green. Will you avoid using Cedar now because you are afraid it will cause a carbide tooth to fly off?

You know, just about anything given in massive quantities will cause cancer in lab rats. I suppose if you soaked a carbide blade for weeks in oven cleaner (or even kerosene for that matter) it could have detrimental effects. But for the couple of minutes, app. once per week that it takes to clean a blade, I have a hard time believing in the damage claims by some. The documented rebuttal I referenced was refuting the damage claims because testing done had not revealed any signigicant damage...much less enough to make a carbide tooth fly off.

I'm not trying to disrespect you, either, but I think the "harsh cleaners causing carbide blade failure" isssue is overblown, if not a complete hoax ...sorta like man-made global warming, you know.

But, if I get hit by a piece of loose carbide slung off my TS blade at 100 mph and it is obvious that oven cleaner was the failure mechanism, I'll be sure and announce the event here...if I'm able ;)

[David Hostetler]

Rockler occasionally has their blade & bit cleaning kit on sale. I got mine for less than a gallon of Simple Green would cost... I used to use Simple Green and soak it in one of those clear plastic planter saucer things, hit it with a stiff bristle nylon brush, rinse and dry...

I've got my OEM 36T Ryobi blade, and 40T Freud blades to do right now...

[Troy Turner]

Michael - too much pitch will cause your motor to work harder and could cause your wood to burn. To me, too much pitch would be a buildup that covers the front of your teeth almost completely. The time it takes to clean one vs. the wear and tear on your motor and wood, makes sense to clean it when you have some spare time...

There's alot of folks that say simple green or some other "mild" solution. I've even seen folks using over cleaner. That was actually in a mag once. I can see their point on the carbide tips flying off if the bonding is weakened by the solution so I stay away from it. Just some simple green, a little time soaking, and your'll be good to go.

[Blake-Kagen]

I use Easy Off oven cleaner...stand it up on a stump. spray it on, let it soak for a few minutes, take a water hose and rinse it off...has never failed me, even tried the cheapo oven cleaners and they worked just as well.

[Tony Shea]

You conveniently left off the last statement of my post...

In your shop, YMMV.


I didn't feel as though I was telling you my methods. I actually had a similar method as yours by using a gun cleaning solvent called Action Blaster which seems to have some harsh chemicals in it. It worked incredible at cleaning anything off the blades as well as cleaning grease off new tools. But I have become hesitant since reading my Infinity Dado Sets' directions about cleaning and not using harsh chemicals such as oven cleaner. But I don't know specifically what the chemicals are to stay away from. I'm assuming amonia could be a bad one as it is used for cleaning copper fouling out of bores. It reacts with copper eating it away which is great for cleaning out my guns but know nothing about what is used to attach carbide tips to blades. I was simply reiterating what manufaturers say about using such cleaners for safety reasons. Odviously all of our methods vary in all aspects of woodworking. And you're right about the drunk driving being a bit of a stretch. And I agree that if these cleaners are used to wipe blades off and don't sit in the chemicals for long periods of time then it would likely never cause an issue. I would actually like to know more about what to stay away from and why. Did not mean to specifically point you out and actually probably know much less about the subject than you.

[Larry Frank]

I use oven cleaner on my blades. One needs to be careful and wear gloves but it works well. There have been a lot of threads concerning cleaning blades and the comment always comes up about damaging the carbide with harsh chemicals. One of the SMC people had extensive knowledge of carbides and indicated that the chemicals would not damage the carbide. So far, I have not encountered any bad effects from the use of oven cleaner which is a strong base.

[Howard Acheson]

Freud and a couple of other blade manufacturers recommend soaking in kerosene and brushing with a stiff brush.

[Neil Brooks]

Freud and a couple of other blade manufacturers recommend soaking in kerosene and brushing with a stiff brush.

The Freud guy (used to?) post here.

Here's (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=821475&postcount=17)his post about caustic cleaners and carbide tips.

He said the test was
24 hours of soaking in a popular commercial cleaner (which will remain unnamed) that is less caustic than oven cleaner.

Does that mean that oven cleaner -- used over time -- will have a cumulative effect? I dunno. I just think it's worth reminding people that at least one manufacturer recommends against using oven cleaner.

I've never tried it, but ... I've always found acceptable alternatives. YMMV.

[johnny means]

How about just running them through the dishwasher?

That's how my wife would do it, right next to the cast iron skillets I spent a day seasoning.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

The Freud guy (used to?) post here.

Here's (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost.php?p=821475&postcount=17)his post about caustic cleaners and carbide tips.

He said the test was .

Does that mean that oven cleaner -- used over time -- will have a cumulative effect? I dunno. I just think it's worth reminding people that at least one manufacturer recommends against using oven cleaner.

I've never tried it, but ... I've always found acceptable alternatives. YMMV.

Isn't his post about a cleaner, less caustic than oven cleaner? Not the oven cleaner?

Go to the simple green site, cleaning tips, and search for cobalt. Or you can google simple green dissolves carbide. They warn against long term soaking in simple green. It's okay to spray on and wipe off. Soaking is bad.

[Neil Brooks]

Kyle,

I'm hesitant to do any more than refer people to the original post (the post, itself, is linked in MY post. From there, one can get to the whole thread).

As I say, I use a dilute mixture of Simple Green, and a quick immersion OR WD-40 OR GooGone OR citrus degreaser.

I have a home bike shop, and lots of degreasers around. I have a parts washer, too, so ... whatever's handy at the time.

I don't have a position on the oven cleaner/caustic chemical thing. I pass it along for others to evaluate and decide on....

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Kyle,

I'm hesitant to do any more than refer people to the original post (the post, itself, is linked in MY post. From there, one can get to the whole thread).




I did read his post. Excerpt:

Tom,

I assure you that my admonishments against using caustics predate your patent by a number of years and those from Freud in general by a number of decades. Being a manufacturer of carbide gives us a little knowledge about it. Here are some photos from our SEM showing the damage from 24 hours of soaking in a popular commercial cleaner (which will remain unnamed) that is less caustic than oven cleaner:

All I was saying, is that it appears that the test was on a popular commercial cleaner, not the oven cleaner. Since I use oven cleaner, I've been doing research to see if it is hazzardous to blades/carbide. If oven cleaner does not remove paint (from your oven), I think it's safe.

[Neil Brooks]

Kyle,

I gotcha'.

May it always work well for you.

May your pitch and grime -- and ONLY the pitch and grime -- FLY off the blades (not meant sarcastically, either) :)

[Fred Belknap]

That's how my wife would do it, right next to the cast iron skillets I spent a day seasoning.

I was kinda joking but it would probably do more damage to the skillet than to a saw blade. I'm sure you would have to reseason the skillet, maybe you can reseason the saw blade, lard works best. :D:D

[George Beck]

I used to use Easy Off Oven Cleaner years ago and it worked great. Then all this cobalt business started and the mfg. suggesting you could void a warranty so I switched to simple green. Simple Green is made to be diluted alot and in straight form is pretty smelly stuff and strong. Currently I am using Permatex Fast Orange Hand Cleaner and it works great! I just squirt some on and use a nylon kitchen scrub brush and rinse. I started this method because Epilog laser recommends it to clean burnt pitch and tar off of wood after laser cutting. I used this method and thought to myself, Hmmmm. So I dipped some router buts in it and scrubbed lightly and rinsed. Results were excellent. It smells good, cleans your hands and is easy to find at most hardware stores.

George

[Bill Huber]

I don't clean my saw blades, when they get dirty I just buy a new one, I thought that is what everyone did.

Its like your car, when its tires get bad I don't buy tires, I just get a new car.

I have learned this method from my wife, you should see the closet and we don't even have a washing machine I guess...



.:D:D:D

[Tony Shea]

Not sure about carbide and what is used to bond carbide to steel. But I do know from being a gun nut that amonia, which I believe is littered in oven cleaner, breaks down copper like no tomorrow. I also know that copper is very soft compared to carbide and has no resemblences what so ever. But this fact is enough for me to stay away from amonia when cleaning saw blades spinning at over 100mph. It may or may not have detrimental effect but am not willing to find out. I also would assume that one would have to let their blade soak in these caustic chemicals for a period of time before and relevant damage is caused.

[Howard Acheson]

Isn't his post about a cleaner, less caustic than oven cleaner? Not the oven cleaner?

Go to the simple green site, cleaning tips, and search for cobalt. Or you can google simple green dissolves carbide. They warn against long term soaking in simple green. It's okay to spray on and wipe off. Soaking is bad.

Here is a posting from Freud that is very clear regarding the use of oven cleaner.

QUOTE

Definitely avoid oven cleaner and other caustics. They attack the cobalt binder in the carbide and can lead to carbide failure (translates to tiny missiles of carbide at 100+ mph). Also, Freud and some other brands of blades have a tri-metal brazing foil that uses copper alloy for a cushioning layer. The copper can also be affected by these cleaners (translates to larger missiles of carbide). We recommend soaking overnight in kerosene in a vented container and using a stiff nylon bristle brush to clean. Teflon coated plates will clean up with a soapy cloth (except for the teeth as mentioned earlier). There are commercial blade cleaning products that are not caustic but we don't officially sanction them.

The manufacturers of Simple Green recommend NOT USING their product for carbide tool cleaning. Freud recommends using kerosene.

Charles M.
Freud, Inc.

CLOSE QUOTE

Howie..............

[Neil Brooks]

Howard,

Yup. That's the guy :)

And ... IIRC ... weren't you in the exchange on that thread to which I linked??

I don't think anybody's "inappropriately" tried to dictate to anybody else that they should _never_ use oven cleaner.

I actually think -- as tends to be the tone on this forum -- that people offered up the additional info, in hopes that it will _inform_ another's choice.

As I said, I have other options, so ... I'll skip the Easy-Off, but ... I use my TS blade guards, wear a bike helmet, wear a motorcycle helmet, and ... have a car with side air bags :p

[Tony Shea]

Also, Freud and some other brands of blades have a tri-metal brazing foil that uses copper alloy for a cushioning layer.


Well, there you go. My point exactly. I didn't know until now that copper was used in the brazing process. After hearing this I would absolutely stay away from oven cleaners and absolutely anything else that has amonia in it. This is the main ingredient in some of the copper solvents sold for cleaning out gun bores. On a forum I visit about guns a guy did some tests on copper solvents by dropping a copper jacketed bullet in them for a different periods of time. The solvents that contained amonia in them were the best at breaking down these copper bullets and is the reason I choose to use amonia based solvents to get copper out of my bores.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Kerosene. Maybe I should start using that, and leave the oven cleaner to the oven and Weber grill......

Kerosene isn't that easy to find these days though. Maybe lamp oil will suffice.

[Clifford Mescher]

I just spray Formula 409, wait a couple of minutes and brush with tooth brush. Wipe with paper towels...job done. Clifford