Did you make $10,000 in total sales your first year?

[Scott Shepherd]

Picking up on another thread, I thought it would be interesting to see how many people bought a laser and had $10,000 in sales the first year. My hopes are that this poll will stand as part of a guide on SMC for people buying lasers.

You don't have to post any details or who you are at all, you can anonymously vote and no one will no the details.

Thanks!

[Dave Russell Smith]

Not even close, to much learning to be done :o

[Mark Winlund]

In my first year as an engraver, I might have cleared $200..... of course, lasers didn't even exist then. Pantographs were the only thing available to the small business in 1975!

Mark

[Tim Bateson]

That depends - Gross sales or Net income?
The answer to Gross is NO
The answer to Net is... :p:p:p:p

Actually in my 2nd year I may have come close. I know I've turned away at least this amount of business.

Note - I'm a Hobbyist/part-time business & use my laser to make a few extra bucks here & there. I work too many hours in my day job to work this business into anything larger at this time.

[Viktor Voroncov]

We have sold over 50 GCC/Pinnacle lasers in last 5 years (all information valid for 2003-2008 - before crisis ) and we have following statistic:
ALL customers did more than $10 000 net in first year.
22 customers return their investments within first year.
1 customer return equipment back after 4 months.

Unfortunately crisis slightly hit statistic - two customers became bancrupts, leasing companies return their equipment to us and now we are trying sell it without any success :(

Market - three Baltic republics - Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, 7,5 mln inhabitants, average monthly salary during crisis time $500. Customers - different - signshops, engraving shops, trophymakers, manufacturers of industrial equipment, stamp makers, graphic arts specialists.

Of course, very difficult compare our market with USA/Canada - we still have a lot of "undertable money" in business turnover, work on weekends and three staff is usual, very low ecological requirements.

Question - if you did $10 000 net in USA - how much taxes you schould pay from this amount? Approximately :)

[Scott Shepherd]

Tim, it says Gross, let's work off of gross. Keeping in mind, $10,000 gross MIGHT get you $5,000 in profit.

[Martin Boekers]

I'm still trying to make $10,000:D

Just kidding!


Marty

[Tom Bull]

No, not 5000 gross, but we are part-time in the basement. It is definately growing, even with economic issues. It has always made it's "payment", our self-repayment schedule.

[Michael Hunter]

Scott

Useful data, but would be even better if the results were split between startups and people adding a laser to an existing related business.

Viktor's results are impressive, but it seems that most of his lasers went to places with an existing customer base.

Personally I made much more than $10,000 in my first full year, but only a small proportion came from lasering things. (Having a laser opens doors to all sorts of interesting enterprises!) This state continues.

[Brian J Rogalny]

Not even close.

[Joe Pelonio]

Scott

Useful data, but would be even better if the results were split between startups and people adding a laser to an existing related business.


True, since in my case I had been in the sign business 10 years and had been subbing out the engraving and cutting, and ordering from others things that I was then able to do myself it would not be a fair comparison.

[Dee Gallo]

True, since in my case I had been in the sign business 10 years and had been subbing out the engraving and cutting, and ordering from others things that I was then able to do myself it would not be a fair comparison.

Same here, I already had an established base and the laser just allowed me to be more efficient and expand. But in my case, I would never have built my biz if I didn't have the laser, it would have stayed very very small.

[Scott Shepherd]

I'm perfectly fine with different people's situations being in this poll. I think it adds to it, not takes away from it. Even with people like Joe, Dee, and Michael (that all had existing businesses and were just adding tools), the numbers are still very real and very alarming for someone that's just been to a demo and thinks "I can make a lot of extra money on the side if I just spend $20,000 on a machine".

The numbers, to me, are actually startling. That means the vast majority of people taking this poll walked away with less than $5,000 profit a year. That's hardly enough to make the payments on the machine.

If I were in the market for a laser as a home based business to make some extra cash, my eyes would be open really wide right now while reading this.

[Anthony Welch]

<$5,000 after the 3rd year. But things are looking up......
I've said that the last two years.:rolleyes:

Anthony

[Dee Gallo]

I'm perfectly fine with different people's situations being in this poll. I think it adds to it, not takes away from it. Even with people like Joe, Dee, and Michael (that all had existing businesses and were just adding tools), the numbers are still very real and very alarming for someone that's just been to a demo and thinks "I can make a lot of extra money on the side if I just spend $20,000 on a machine".

The numbers, to me, are actually startling. That means the vast majority of people taking this poll walked away with less than $5,000 profit a year. That's hardly enough to make the payments on the machine.

If I were in the market for a laser as a home based business to make some extra cash, my eyes would be open really wide right now while reading this.

I agree with you, Scott, it's a good reality check for sure. People should be aware of the facts, then they have every right to be as optimistic or pessimistic as they want to be. In my opinion, unless you are buying a machine that makes gold from straw, you are just buying another tool.

I think David hit it on the head in another thread, the real investment is in design/production skill levels, marketing, business savvy, hard work...and I'll add luck.

cheers, dee

[Mark Plotkin]

I cast my vote in the over $20,000 but I did want to point out the following details that might help others looking at this post. Our business started by making pens and we then moved to having them engraved by an award shop. As business grew and our order size grew to 50 pens and 100 pens at a time with wooden cases engraved also, I had a good base to start with but still not enough to buy our own laser. Then one of our customers that ordered 100 custom pens and cases wanted special wood blocks to commemorate an event. The initial quote was for 500 of these blocks. When I had the award shop quote me, they basically said that this order would tie up their laser too long and the price was not discounted at all. I did the math and that was the time my own laser made business sense. Well the gamble paid off as the client ordered $17,000 worth of laser engraved stuff that year. We also had other very large orders from other clients. So yes we did well over 20k the first year we had the laser but did sub out the work for a couple of years prior to purchase.

[Rodne Gold]

I did 20k + , BUT , I already had a very good award/emgraving business , was one of the first ppl in the area to get a laser and went on a heavy duty marketing campaign and hired a rep...
We were already totally conversant with design packages like Corel and Acad and had many logos on file. Also had many CnC engravers/overhead routers at the the time so the laser did what they coudnt do in terms of detail , cutting and speed.
The laser was the best addition to my machinery base and as you can see - we currently have 6 of em.
This was some time ago - nowdays there are lots of ppl in my area with lasers , so merely using it for cutting or engraving as a start up would be difficult for a newbie , worse that that is the fact that a lot of folk have bought and are succesfully running much cheaper chinese machines , making those that bought machines at 5x the price much less competitive. We have lost a lot of our clients because they have bought their own cheap machines instead of us doing their work.
The competitive edge one had with lasers 5-7 years ago has dulled considerably. I am looking right now for the next best thing to sliced bread in this industry , but havent found it yet...
Perhaps those machines that build up 3d models out of resin ? Maybe they will get cheaper and quicker?

[Viktor Voroncov]

Viktor's results are impressive, but it seems that most of his lasers went to places with an existing customer base.

Yes, Michael, you are right and IMHO this is main reason of their succesful work. Be honestly - the one only guy who have returned laser was self starter with limited budget. He have purchased Venus 12 Wt - smallest laser with many limitations and can't satisfied customers needs.

[Niklas Bjornestal]

Perhaps those machines that build up 3d models out of resin ? Maybe they will get cheaper and quicker?
They are already cheaper if you make your own.

http://objects.reprap.org/wiki/RepRap_Version_II_Mendel

[Gerd Spatz]

Money? I can make money with my laser? Wow!

[Rodne Gold]

15 cc per hour is a lttle too slow , tho for EU350 , its sure is cheap. The parts it needs to print to replicate stuff it needs would take 70 hrs!!!

I would want to use a machine like this for masters for spin casting , 3d plastic badges , trophy components etc etc.
Needs some level of production capability and better surface finishes than I have seen with some of the machines that exist.

[Scott Shepherd]

I've even more shocked this morning. 65% of the people did not even make $5,000. At 50% profit, that's $2,500 or less. That means the majority of people on this poll haven't made enough to pay for their machine payments.

That's frightening to me. I would never have guessed the rate was so high.

[David Fairfield]

From the poll, it looks like the first year is a write off for engraver newbies, as I expected. Nothing really shocking or unreasonable about that.

These machines are sophisticated tools, not trinket vending machines. Like any tool, it requires craftsmanship and experience to produce quality work. On the other hand, they don't require the long apprenticeship with a master that traditional woodworking skills might.

My unprofitable year of learning and experimenting was just part of the investment. What I learned then pays now.

Dave

[Tim Bateson]

I agree with Dave. If...IF I were to push my services now (assuming the economy is in recovery), that $10k Net would be no problem. However replacing my current day-job salary is a whole other thread. In short that can't be done with a laser... only a laser. So, until I retire, I'll keep turning away work, while I diversify with additional skills & equipment.

[Scott Shepherd]

I agree with you too David. However, I think the illusion, especially in this economy, is that you can buy one of these machines to supplement your income on the side, when in fact, the evidence in growing in this poll that the majority of the time, it's not even a method to pay it's own way.

I know if I was trying to make some extra cash on the side and saw a poll like this, I'd be reconsidering some of the hype that's out there about how you can be making money the day you plug it in.

[David Fairfield]

I think polling will only shows what's generally understood among craftspeople-- its not the tool but the individual that makes the difference. Operating the machine is more science than art. Making profitable stuff is more art than science. The successful engraver is an artist, scientist, businesman, networker, and maybe a wizard too. Can't poll that :)

Dave

[Scott Shepherd]

Yes David, but that's a far shot from the sales pitch of making $50,000 a year engraving baby's photos on marble that we all see and hear.

I would venture to say that most people that own a laser aren't craftsmen. I know I'm not. I couldn't do the stuff you do in my life depended on it. I make what people tell me to make, not what I think someone wants made or what I want to make myself.

[Belinda Barfield]

Our situation was a little different. Existing countertop fabrication company with a great client base. We were approached by a local military base regarding engraved black granite pavers and some other large granite displays. Great opportunity, and we were all in. I had another company do the initial samples they wanted, attended all the planning meetings, etc. Spoke with several laser vendors, all of whom really pumped the custom engraved granite tile backsplashes that we could add to our product line, etc. So, we ordered the laser. Three weeks after it arrived post command changed. The new commanding officer didn't like the idea of black granite memorial pavers, so that got value engineered to brick. We lost the job for 1000 pavers right there. Then he decided that black was too "depressing" for the memorial and went with another material for the other items. Long story short . . . everyone loves the idea of a custom black granite inset in the backsplash over the cooktop, they just don't want to pay for it - you know the drill. Gross income first year of ownership - $1602.00.

[David Fairfield]

Yup, no guarantees in a sales pitch. I thought drinking Pepsi would make me attractive and fun to be with, but gallons later, I'm still a batchelor :D

[Dan Hintz]

If...IF I were to push my services now (assuming the economy is in recovery), that $10k Net would be no problem. However replacing my current day-job salary is a whole other thread.
Steve and I had this exact discussion at his shop a few weekends ago. I would need a shop running 24/7 with 10 employees to even hope to make what I do as an embedded software engineer, and even then I'd probably start to miss writing code.

In some ways, I'm quite content to keep this as a hobby, though many a day passes by that I really wish I could afford to do it full time (but I like my expensive toys too much :p).

I think the only way I could make the money I want using the laser without hiring a bunch of employees is to create a laser co-op with (semi-) local owners and figure out what each of us is good at and share the work appropriately. At some point, though, that would probably look just like any other company, just without the legal protection!

[David Fairfield]

I used to practice law. Now I do this. Is it worth the drop in income? Hell yeah! I'm a happy guy now, can't put a price on that! :)

Dave

[Gary Hair]

Considering that this is my sole source of income, I needed to make 10k in my first couple of months. My first year was over 20k, 2nd and 3rd over 50k - just from the laser.

Gary

[Dee Gallo]

Considering that this is my sole source of income, I needed to make 10k in my first couple of months. My first year was over 20k, 2nd and 3rd over 50k - just from the laser.

Gary

And the secret to your success is ? Come on, inquiring minds want to know!

[Bill Cunningham]

The first year I installed the laser, it MORE than paid for itself, and has done so every year since. But, like many of the others, I added it to a 15 year old business and customer base.. The laser is now my main tool (among many), and still provides my wife and I with a comfortable living..

[Randy Walker]

I bought my laser while I was still working with the intention of being a hobby/part time business and great tax deduction. Then the auto industry had its melt down and with the threat of my plant closing I took an early retirement (with the pay slashing). With no real background in computer graphics I am playing catch-up, so no, I did not make 10k last year. I may have even lost money. I’ve gotten better on the computer and now I am trying to learn the art of marketing with the hope of making 10k this year.

Randy Walker

P.S. Without hijacking the thread if any one has any great insights on marketing I’d sure like to hear (read) them. Maybe in a new thread.

[Gary Hair]

And the secret to your success is ? Come on, inquiring minds want to know!

1. Aggressive sales and marketing. I visited every machine shop, sign shop, printing shop, graphics company, etc., that I could find. They have been a continuous referral resource for me.

2. Under promise and over deliver - no kidding... This gets me more referral business than you can possibly imagine.

3. Run your business like a business. Just because you may be home-based, doesn't make you any less of a business so you better start acting like one. Act like you should act, charge what you should charge and your business will grow.

Other than that, I work my a$$ off. I'm down to a max of 10 hours a day, 4-5 days a week but when I started I was at 14-16 hours a day about 5-7 days a week. A lot of the first year wasn't spent on making money, it was about learning the trade. I devoured anything I could find related to laser, forums, websites, etc., I read everything I could. If I only did 2 hours of work on any given day, the rest of the 14 was getting some education and/or testing different materials. Part of my success has been nailing down Cermarking various metals - I would have to look in my accounting program to be sure, but I would estimate that 25% of my income has been on Cermarked metal. That would also account for about 50% of my profit.

Gary

[Dee Gallo]

Thanks, Gary! So no magic spell, just good old hard work, common sense and professionalism - which usually pays off in the long run for everyone.

Good to have that verified by a successful operator - thanks!

:) dee

[Cindy Rhoades]

I didn't even come close to 10,000. I started from scratch at the time the economy went out of control and no one had a job any longer in this area. I spent most of my first year making samples and getting my name out there. I am actually very fortunate because I don't owe anyhting on laser or property. My overhead is is very very low mainly utilities and an occasional check for myself until things pick up. The potential is definitely out there in my area but jobs need to come back a little stronger. I have picked up a couple of commercial accounts that if the numbers they are talking come through I would surpass that much in one job. I am a patient person and love my laser.

[Jack Burton]

can someone upload the .cdr to make money? :)

[Frank Corker]

can someone upload the .cdr to make money? :)

No problem Jack, just Paypal $430 to my email address and I'll get it straight off to you.

Frank

[Gary Hair]

can someone upload the .cdr to make money? :)


Here you go

[rick woodward]

I wanted to see Gary's cdr file "money", but it saves as a firefox document. Tried opening in a new window, nothing works. What can i do about this. Not the first time either. I have corel x3. Thanks for any help. rick woodward

[joseph zalewski]

I myself cleared about 3,000 first year. Thanks to a few bigger jobs. This year is looking better, if I only had more time for selling think I could clear 10,000 I beleive.

[Joe Pelonio]

Be careful what you wish for!

I say that because there were months when I made $10,000 just with the laser and it means all nighters and not seeing your family. LOTS of small things to remove, running the same things over and over, 4' stack of acrylic sheets, and so on. They never give you enough time, but always have a critical deadline.

I often wished I had a second machine but then now I'd be stuck with it. With the vinyl side of the business there have been individual orders, like re-signing an entire parking garage for $10,000 that could be done a lot faster. When those dried up I decided to get a day job, and now do mostly laser evenings and weekends.

[Scott Shepherd]

At the time of this posting, it was about 69% of people responding that made less than $10,000 in gross sales their first year. There is also a growing number of people more than $10,000.

I'd be really curious to know if what I suspect is true and that is that the less than $10,000 were primarily targeting consumers, and the majority of people making more than $10,000 were primarily targeting Business to Business.

I wonder how many (if any) of the "greater than $10,000" made that by putting a baby's photo on a piece of marble or by engraving glasses for brides and grooms (typical sales pitched items when shopping for lasers).

[Julie Nickerson]

I was able to open up the money.cdr in corel but it came up with coding. So I guess I didn't get it right either.

[Joe Pelonio]

I wonder how many (if any) of the "greater than $10,000" made that by putting a baby's photo on a piece of marble or by engraving glasses for brides and grooms (typical sales pitched items when shopping for lasers).
I have never done any of the above.

I decided to buy a laser when an existing wholesale sign customer told me he was unhappy with his current engraver, and would give me all his work if I got one. At the time, according to his records it was about $3,000/month. It turned out to be more like $2,000 but that was still enough to justify the expense. I still do his work but now with the economy as it is that's down to a few hundred.

[Rodne Gold]

Oddly enough , I have never seen an ad for an overhead router ( at the same price as a laser) pitched in the same "make a $gazzilion in your spare time" as some laser's are - neither have I seen em pitched at the mom and pop market.

[Doug Griffith]

I have not tried to sell and have never made a dime off any type of engraved product or trinket. I did make over 10k the first year by doing industrial cutting jobs. I saw the need and already had the connections before purchasing the laser system. My connections were CNC cutting a lot of acrylic and flame polishing. The items were small and required vacuum table fixtures that took as long to build as the parts themselves. It was a no-brainer. I've also used the laser for a few proprietary products that made some money. Probably not much but without a laser the products never would have got past the drawing board.

As far as being a sustainable source of income, I doubt I'll quit programming any time soon.

[Doug Griffith]

neither have I seen em pitched at the mom and pop market.

Even though others have disagreed with me, I still think a CNC is nowhere as easy to use as a laser. Even if the software evolves to a single button that say "make sign now", there are just too many other variables.

[Dan Hintz]

Oddly enough , I have never seen an ad for an overhead router ( at the same price as a laser) pitched in the same "make a $gazzilion in your spare time" as some laser's are - neither have I seen em pitched at the mom and pop market.
The plasma cutters are touted as such, especially in the back of magazines aimed at the market often filled wiht hobbyists (like Popular Mechanics and such).

[Gary Hair]

Here is the money cdr in v9. Sorry, I just upgraded to X5 and saved it as an X5 file.

Gary

[Gary Hair]

I wonder how many (if any) of the "greater than $10,000" made that by putting a baby's photo on a piece of marble or by engraving glasses for brides and grooms (typical sales pitched items when shopping for lasers).

Although I have done a few of those type of items, the majority of my work has been for larger, commercial accounts. Most of my invoices are over $500, I probably don't have more than a handfull that are less than $100 and that's for the entire year.

Gary

[Mark Ross]

I opened it up and it was empty...must be the money after taxes

If you really want to make a ton of money with a laser you have to get the highest quality most accurate laser out there. One capable of lasering metal.

Step #1. Buy above mentioned laser
Step #2. Buy very highly machined metal plates.
Step #3. Scan money.
Step #4. Laser the graphics from step #3 onto said metal plates.
Step #5. Print money.
Step #6. Go to jail!:)

[Jack Burton]

Can we add a "less than $5.00" choice?