Comfused by hand planes

[Philip Johnson]

I must confess I feel a bit out of my element over here as I mostly use power tools. I didn't even own any hand tools till last week I picked up a few Pfeil chesels at Woodcraft.

I would like to buy a hand plane or two but I have no idea what to buy. I don't anticapate doing a lot of hand planing but would like to have something around to take a bit off here and there or clean up a dovetail. Is ther 1 good all around plane to have or do I need 10 or 12 of em. I prefer to buy someting once and decent quality rather then the cheapest tool out there.

Thanks
Phil

[Darnell Hagen]

A block plane is a versatile tool that will do a number of jobs including the ones you specify.

I like Lee Valleys.

[Prashun Patel]

I say get a low angle block plane with an adjustable mouth.

If yr not afraid to spend the money, look at the Veritas and Lie Nielsen LA blocks. They are usable 'out of the box', unlike used or lesser quality new planes. By this, I mean they're flat and sharp.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Annnnd......They're OFF!

It begins again.

LN Rabbet block as first gen-purpose plane.

[Philip Johnson]

Ok it appears that a small block plane is in order, I know the Lie Nielsen is a quality tool and the price is in the range I would like to spend. Here starts the confusion...I see and hear recommendations for a low angle, rabbit one, adjustable mouth, steel or bronze, so many options. I guess there is more to planes then first meets the eye....I will have to spend some time at lie Nielsen web site see if I can figure some of this out.

Phil

[Prashun Patel]

If you want Lie Nielsen, 1 vote for the LN 102. (If rust is not an issue in your space, then you can save $20 and get the LN102i). I like my block plane small, though.

I had a chance to try the Veritas Apron plane this past weekend. It's $85 and pretty much the same as the LN102. It's also great.

[Mark Buchanan]

I must confess I feel a bit out of my element over here as I mostly use power tools. I didn't even own any hand tools till last week I picked up a few Pfeil chesels at Woodcraft.

I would like to buy a hand plane or two but I have no idea what to buy. I don't anticapate doing a lot of hand planing but would like to have something around to take a bit off here and there or clean up a dovetail. Is ther 1 good all around plane to have or do I need 10 or 12 of em. I prefer to buy someting once and decent quality rather then the cheapest tool out there.

Thanks
Phil


Well I am certainly not an expert on hand tools although I have built custom kitchens and builtins for over 30 years. Recently I have became more interested in hand tools so I attended a Rob Crosman Seminar. He by the way is an expert and I highly recommend his Seminars and dvd,s.


This is his top ten tool list for a beginner (although if you count there are more than 10).


#1 Water stone sharpening system 1000 grit 8000 grit 16,000 grit and a lapstone to flatten. He recommends Shapton if you have deep pockets.

#2 LN 5 1/2 or 4 1/2 bench plane

#3 LN bevel edge chisels 1/8,3/16,1/4,3/8,1/2 LN mortise chisels 3/16,1/4,3/8,1/2

# 4 LN 60 1/2 block plane (this is the plane recommend on this thread so far)

#5 LN 140 skew block plane (I just purchased this plane and highly recommend it. It has a removable side for rabbiting and an adjustable fence. It has a lot of applications)

#6 LN #8 jointer plane

#7 Rob Crossman dovetail, crosscut and tenon saws

#8 Tightmark gauge with mortise blades

#9 LN 041 small shoulder plane

#10 LN 271 router plane

#11 Rob Crosman dvd,s


Caution Adding up this list is not for the faint of heart.:eek::D


I would agree that he is spot on on this list because with these tools you can master the two most common joinery methods in woodworking. The dovetail and the mortice and tenon joint. Most others are variations of these. Of course it will depend upon what you want to accomplish and I have started in the center of the list and will jump around a bit as I have several hand tools. I also have other sharpening methods but I agree with Rob that it is the # priority both in skill and equipment.

Good luck with your woodworking and enjoy

Mark

[Matt Radtke]

If you come from a power tool background, it might be easier to think about your planes vs. a power tool 'equivalent.'

In the power tool shop, you likely have a palm/random orbit sander, your finishing tool. This matches up to your smoothing plane, a 2-4 1/2. If you hate sanding, get one of these.

In the power tool shop, you have a jointer: Make your boards flat and square. Well, there's a plane that's called a jointer, either a 7 or 8.

Thickness planer? It's all about the rapid stock removal, likely beFORE you get to doing the real joinery work. Well, grab a fore plane, a number 6.

Just starting out in the world, you probably picked up a belt sander. Swap different grits of paper in and out, and it can do pretty much everything at least okay, if nothing particularly well. A jack of all trades, if you will. Look at that number 5, it's usually called a jack. . .

This list isn't perfect, I'm not even going to touch block planes here, and really, every plane can be adjusted to do almost anything, but that should get you started thinking about what you want.

And, buy something like a 60 1/2. No matter what you do or how much you do wtih hand tools vs power tools, that plane is useful. :)

[David Hostetler]

While $$ is more of a concern for me than you it appears, the only thing I would change is brands on my planes. I have 2. An adjustable mouth low angle block plane, and a #4.

I put a good bit of time and effort into tuning my planes (Groz cheapies from Woodcraft). If you can afford it, go with Veritas or Lie Nielsen right out of the box. You don't have to mess with them. What can I say? I like a challenge...

Funny thing about hand tools is... Once you start using them, there are some things that hand tools do, that a power tool is just too much of a pain to use... And while my hand tool collection is pretty lean, I have enough of a collection to do what I would rather not do with a power tool...

Those tools are...

#1. Flush cut pull saw.
#2. Groz adjustable mouth low angle block plane
#3. Groz #4 bench plane.
#4. Stanley 6 pc chisel set (England MFG stamp).
#5. Hacksaw.
#6. Back saw.
#7. Coping Saw.

There are a bunch more, but you should get the idea...

[Jim Koepke]

Ok it appears that a small block plane is in order, I know the Lie Nielsen is a quality tool and the price is in the range I would like to spend. Here starts the confusion...I see and hear recommendations for a low angle, rabbit one, adjustable mouth, steel or bronze, so many options. I guess there is more to planes then first meets the eye....I will have to spend some time at lie Nielsen web site see if I can figure some of this out.

Phil

Phil,

For a first plane, my suggestion would be to go with simple and versatile. The low angle block plane is a simple and versatile tool.

I like an adjustable mouth, but it is not necessary. For someone who is just starting to use planes it may seem like it is as unneeded as a "granny low" on your four wheel drive. But then when the light goes on and you "get it" you will be glad you have it.

The good thing about either the LN-102 or the LV Apron plane is they will hold their value if you ever decide to sell them. Most likely, even if you do get block planes with more bells and whistles in the future, either of these two will likely stay in the group of planes you build over time. The same is true for a plane with an adjustable mouth, even a bit more.

One reason for recommending a low angle block plane is they are particularly good at trimming end grain. This is necessary most of the time to make good fitting joinery.

Based on a sentence in your original post:


I don't anticapate doing a lot of hand planing but would like to have something around to take a bit off here and there or clean up a dovetail.

A low angle block plane can take care of that.

For working on larger areas, you might want to get something in a smoother size, #3-#4-1/2. This size is best picked by being able to actually handle the planes. They are within a few inches of each other on length. Their blade widths; 1-3/4", 2" and 2-3/8" is their main operational difference. Their weight is the other.

If you re-saw lumber, then you may want to get a few more. That area is where you start to get into jack planes and joiner planes for the big jobs.

If you rip lumber to dimension, you may want a longer plane to smooth the edge. If you already have a power joiner, that task is already taken care of unless you want to start unplugging.

Until you get in to the area of dimensioning your own lumber, a low angle block plane and a smoother are likely to do most of the work you need done.

The reason people like me have a lot of planes is I do not own many power tools. Each plane excels at its own use. There is a lot of overlap. Many people will claim you really only need 3 bench planes and a block plane to do the "flat" work. Filling in the selection allows for a lot of different situations without compromise.

My usual position is to sing the praises of buying an old plane and fixing it up. I think you may be a good example of why that is not always the best road to take.

There are probably a few people that would be left scratching their heads to find out that I spent money on a brand new plane from Lie-Nielsen last week. There is a good reason. The new one is less expensive than finding one in good condition used. Besides, the new one is improved over the original design.

No matter what plane you decide on, you will also need to get some sharpening equipment to maintain your plane blade and chisels.

jim

[John Coloccia]

My personal opinion: If you're mostly a power tool user, but you want some useful handplanes, my choices, in this order, would be:

1) a good block plane. I really like the Veritas block planes right now. I use mine on nearly every project. There's always some edge I want to break, or a sliver that has to come off, or something. VERY useful.

2) a good smoother: I'm really liking the Veritas smoother right now. Again, I find I use this all the time. Anytime I want to get a really nice finish, or clean up dovetails, or anything like that, I reach for the smoother.

3) a good fore plane or jack plane: I would personally pick up a nice Lie-Neilsen #5 or #6. This will come in handy when you just need to knock some chunks off a board so it won't wobble when you pass it on the jointer, or something like that. A #6 is long enough that it could potentially be used to true up an edge too. I happen to own a #6 and use it as it's meant to me used....as a fore plane, i.e. I prepare the surface only to the point that another tool can now work the surface, be it a power tool or another plane.

I also have all sorts of other planes.....Ibex planes for carving, LN model Maker's plain, jointers, smoothers etc etc, but the three above are the ones that see the most use in my mixed hand tool/power tool shop.

Just my opinion and what works for me, but I thought I'd offer my thoughts.

[Brian Kent]

Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen Block Plane to start. I like low angle. I have the small 102, but all of the block planes from these places are just great and will be used continually.

If you already use power tools, then I think the most useful second plane is a fantastic smoother. Which one? To quote plane maker Steve Knight, "The best plane is the one you have learned and tuned to the max." A great starting place is a #4, old and refurbished or new Lie Nielsen, or a Lee Valley Bevel Up Smoother.

[Jeff Monson]

Phil, You've gotten great advise from some great creekers, my advice is also a low angle block plane. I started out with a stanley and couldnt make it work, thought hand planes were not for me.

Until I picked up a Lie Nielsen from a woodcraft store, after working with a good sharp plane one can start to see the benefit of handplanes. Now I can make my stanley work just as well, just takes some tuning and proper sharpening. Thats why I suggest buying a good one to start with, its alot easier to learn.

[Sean Hughto]

I think one the things that planes do really well, and that can be difficult to duplicate with machines is fitting drawers and doors. The size of your typical work will dictate the plane somewhat, anything from a block to a jack (5) to a jointer (7).

You can't go wrong with a Lie-Nielsen low angle jack as a great all arounder. And if you don't like you can sell it for nearly its list price on eBay - really.

[Jim Koepke]

You can't go wrong with a Lie-Nielsen low angle jack as a great all arounder. And if you don't like you can sell it for nearly its list price on eBay - really.

If you are willing to ship to Europe and list it as used, you can sometimes sell it for more.

If what I have read on this is correct, the duty on new is almost prohibitive. On used, people will pay more than new and still get the plane for less than what they would pay for new.

I would not bet on this happening on any particular auction.

jim

[Philip Johnson]

Wow a lot of good detailed advise, thank you all for the education. The viritas look nice but I will probably go with a lie neilsen block to start since I can check them out locally at woodcraft. Looks like I will have to work a bit of overtime.

thanks again
Phil