What am I doing wrong?

[Chen-Tin Tsai]

So I've taken to tuning up the Stanley planes I got off of the 'bay...two #5's, a 5 1/4, two #4's, a #3 and a no-name #4 (um, I think I have a sickness...:o). I'm using the scary sharp system to hone the blades, and I'm getting good at making the bevel shine like a mirror; the grits I use are 220, 400, 800, 1000, 1500 and 2000. Sadly, the blades just don't seem that sharp and I can't figure out why. Trying to plane a piece of 2x4 from the BORG is an exercise in frustration. I'm planing with the grain, the blade's not protruding too far and it's parallel to the sole. However, the shavings just don't seem that fine and it's pretty hard hard to push.

Are there any neanders in the metro Washington DC area that are familiar with planes who'd be willing to show me what I'm doing wrong in exchange for lunch? I also have the same problem with my chisels; I can get a mirror finish, but still can't pare end grain pine :(

[Jim Koepke]

If it is a sickness, I have it too. Sadly, there is no cure known to mankind.

Sharpening is one of those things that you will continue to get better at over time.

Are you free hand sharpening or do you have a blade holder?

One of the common problems with the scary sharp method is the sandpaper can get pushed up ahead of the blade. This will cause the edge to be rounded.

Some recommend that the blade is only on the abrasive on the pull stroke. As soon as a burr develops on one grit, move up to the next one to work the burr off by having the back on the abrasive and pulling and then flipping the blade over with the bevel on the abrasive and pulling. Eventually the burr, wire edge, will come off and then just work the bevel to get a new burr. Someone else may elaborate on this more, I have not done total scary sharp for at least two years now.

There will be a Lie-Nielsen Tool Event in Gaithersburg, MD, but not until June. They have sharpening demos there. Keep an eye on their show announcement page. Sometimes they will get another one to sneak in. You could also send them an email or call them on the phone.

jim

[Matt Radtke]

So I've taken to tuning up the Stanley planes I got off of the 'bay...two #5's, a 5 1/4, two #4's, a #3 and a no-name #4 (um, I think I have a sickness...:o). I'm using the scary sharp system to hone the blades, and I'm getting good at making the bevel shine like a mirror; the grits I use are 220, 400, 800, 1000, 1500 and 2000. Sadly, the blades just don't seem that sharp and I can't figure out why. Trying to plane a piece of 2x4 from the BORG is an exercise in frustration. I'm planing with the grain, the blade's not protruding too far and it's parallel to the sole. However, the shavings just don't seem that fine and it's pretty hard hard to push.

Couple things jump out at me. First, is the back of the blade (unbeveled) side sharp and mirrored? If it is, there are a couple ways to test sharpness outside of the plane body.

First, you can try shaving your arm. Roughly flat to your arm, bevel up, push lightly. Get a close shave? Not my favorite technique.

You can also try cutting end grain in pine. Flat to end, 90* of the long grain, pare the end grain. Sharp will cut, dull will smash the grain. Pine here is important. It's so soft your only option are cut or smash.

You can also try to cut paper with it. Blade 90* to the edge of paper, pull sharply. Sharp will cleave the paper cleanly, like sissors. My brother-in-law uses this to test his swords.

[Darnell Hagen]

Sharpness is polish + flatness.

+1 on what Jim said about the sandpaper wave & pull stroke. Pull the bevel, then push the back to roll the wire edge under and break it off.

[Matt Radtke]

The next catch might be too much blade sticking out of the body. I start with the sole sliding over the wood without any blade sticking out and take a swipe. Turn the adjuster 1/4-1/2 turn, repeat. Once I get a couple of hits, "skiffing" noises, the blade is starting to hit the high spots. Take a few swipes to see if you're making progress. If not, repeat as before, with only 1/8-1/4 of a turn between swipes. Dial it in very slowly until you're getting a good, full shaving.

Keep making very small turns until you're happy with the thickness of your shaving. For a smooth, the above might be enough. For a jointer, you'll do more, etc.

[Chen-Tin Tsai]

I was going at it freehand, but now I've got my hands on a Veritas MkII Honing Jig. The backs of the blades (both the plane irons and the chisels) are polished and smooth; I work the section from the edge to about an inch back through all of the grits up to the 2000. I tried shaving my arm hairs and it didn't work. Paring end grain doesn't work...but now that I think about it, that chunk might be a piece of the fir 2x4 (would that work the same?) I'm going to try the pulling method with the jig and see if that works. Should the sandpaper be wet?

Also, one of the planes has a cracked tote, so I thought I'd try my hand at making one. I cut it out with a jigsaw, and did most of the waste removal with my mostly sharp Bucks Brothers chisels, (don't laugh...ya know, the kind available at most home centers with the plastic handles...), a round file, and a couple of strips of sandpaper. The wood is bubinga (the gent at the hardwood dealer said it is similar to rosewood). I'm still trying to figure out how to get the curves sanded smooth and flowing. What do you think?

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q131/AKPS2006/Other%20Pics/IMG_1645.jpg
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q131/AKPS2006/Other%20Pics/IMG_1646.jpg
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q131/AKPS2006/Other%20Pics/IMG_1647.jpg

The nice thing about making a plane tote is that it's cheap on the materials. The bubinga I think was $12 or so a bdft for the piece I got, which was about 5.5" wide, 1" thick and about 4' long. Thus far, I've only used a piece about 5" long (like three bucks worth of materials) from that board, and it's taken me two weekends to get this far :o

[Casey Gooding]

The tote should look great when you are done.
As was stated earlier, sandpaper does tend to round over edges, especially if it isn't glued to a flat surface (like glass or MDF). For a while I polished the backs of my plane blades and chisels on sandpaper and then used waterstones for the bevel. Even then, the back was rounded too much to produce a really fine edge. I found myself going back to the waterstones for the backs.
I know many people use sandpaper exclusively and have great success with it.
Remember, sharpening takes practice. Even with today's modern help, it takes time. The more you do it, the better you will get.
Best of luck!!!

[Robert Rozaieski]

You need to raise a wire/burr. You can polish the back and the bevel until the cows come home, but if the two edges don't meet, you won't have a sharp edge. After polishing the back and moving to the bevel, you need to work on the bevel with your coarsest abrasive until you feel a wire edge on the back side. If you don't feel that wire or burr on the back, you haven't worked the bevel enough on your coarsest abrasive yet and the edges haven't met. Only once you feel the wire edge on the back of the iron should you move on to finer abrasives. Then you work with each finer abrasive until the scratches from the prior grit are gone. On your last abrasive, you polish until the wire edge is removed. Only then will you have a sharp edge.

[David Gendron]

Is 2000 grit fine anough? I would think so, you might want to try the paper bag method. I read somwhere that you can us it as a stop and you get realy nice finish on the bevel and back of your blade.
Good luck

[Darnell Hagen]

but if the two edges don't meet, you won't have a sharp edge


Thats it in a nutshell.
Do you feel the wire edge form on the face?
Does light reflect on the tip? If it does it's a facet, not an edge.

Nice tote. It's kind of late now, but do you know about this?

http://www.leevalley.com/shopping/TechInfo.aspx?p=63263

[Mike Siemsen]

Take a few photos of the irons and chisels end on and both faces, Maybe we can see what is wrong. What is your bevel angle? Do you have the iron in the plane correctly? So many places to go wrong!
Mike

[Jim Koepke]

Sanding a tote in hard wood is difficult at best. Half round rasps and files do a much better job.

Lots of good advice on the sharpening. The 2X4 you mentioned should be fine for a test piece. For planing, if it has squirrelly grain, it could be giving you a problem.

Matt mentions a good method for blade adjustment. For me, I adjust the blade as the blade is moving on the wood. Keep the center of the plane over the edge being planed. Often, one side will start cutting before the other. That is the time to take care of the lateral adjustment. You'll get it all together eventually.

I use the "shave arm hair" test all the time. If you have never used a straight razor, it can be a little bit difficult to get it right. It can be dangerous if you are not fully aware of what you are doing. I do it so much that one of my arms is missing a lot of forearm hair. Now the other arm is looking a little patchy.

The first test I use to see if the blade is getting in the ball park is to aim the blade away from me and bring it in contact with a finger nail. Just resting on a finger nail, it should cut in and not slide on the nail. Do this at the end of the nail where you can afford to have a little trimmed at least until you become familiar with the test.

Also, when raising a burr, it has to be all the way across the blade. Things will be a lot easier with a holder.

Don't feel bad about the plastic handled Buck Brothers chisel. My first 1/4 inch chisel is one of those yellow plastic handled numbers. It was also the last modern made chisel that I bought. Not because of it, but I decided to go with socket chisels for easier handle replacement.

Keep trying and let us know how you are doing.

jim

[Rob Young]

CT -

It sounds like you are making progress! Nice job jumping in the deep end and making a new tote.

Shaping with rasps goes much faster but if you get some relatively coarse 1" strip sand paper you can round things and then move up the grits. Try putting a long bolt down through the handle then clamping the bolt. Now you can fiddle with the angle of attack on the sandpaper.

A honing jig is a good teaching tool, and I often have to go back to mine when I've lost concentration and completely screwed up a bevel. :) Pull only on the sandpaper (thick float glass or a nice large granite tile is a great backer). 2,000 grit is OK and will get you a decent edge but as has been pointed out, you can go finer either through stones, powdered grits or just compound on leather. Stick with the sandpaper for at least another month or two before you change methods. If you can create a good edge with it, you can create a good edge with ANY method.

A pine 2x4 isn't the greatest test piece but you can sometimes find a good bit of wood in those. Too many grain reversals and it will just be frustrating. Without any other source around, the home center poplar is often a decent choice for a practice wood. Rough cut poplar is actually kinda fun to play with if you can get it. Cheap and you get to practice all the skills to prep rough lumber.

Just be patient, pick one aspect of sharpening or planing technique and concentrate on that. Then move on to deal with the next problem. Trying to fix everything at one time will just frustrate you. Divide down the problem and attack each of the smaller parts one at a time and it will very quickly start to come together.

Have fun!

Rob

[Mark Roderick]

One problem here is that you don't know whether the problems are arising from your sharpening technique or because the planes aren't tuned right.

I'd suggest you buy ONE Lie-Nielsen or Veritas plane, probably the low-angle block plane. Right out of the box that plane should be ready to cut - try it. Now sharpen the blade using your normal techniques.

If the new plane now cuts better, you know you're sharpening correctly and that the problems with the other planes are being caused by the planes.

If the new plane now cuts worse, you know you're doing something wrong sharpening - although the other planes could be faulty as well.

[David Cefai]

My 2 cents:

Lots of good advice above. The burr is the one which is probably the key.

Try this: facing a light source, hold the blade with the bevel up and facing away fom you. Catch the reflection on the bevel. Then slowly turn the blade to move the bevel up and the other end down. The bevel will darken. Keep turning slowly. You must NOT see a bright line at the tip of the blade. This indicates that there is a third surface between the two cutting ones.

When you have formed and removed the burr you will not see this glint.

[Josh Bowman]

IMHO, 3 methods I use to check sharpness. This one I've used the longest and it works fine, take a piece of pine and put it your vise and see if you can shave the end grain of the scrap. It should go with little effort and most important, it should slice the end grain not tearing it. Oddly the second method I had discounted for a long time, until I found it seems to be a degree more accruate. Simply place the bevel gently and with it's own weight against you thumb nail and try to drag the face of the bevel lightly. It it's stuck in place you're sharp, if you can drag the bevel, it's starting to get dull. Another method that I use is to look at the edge under a light and magnifier if I see the end of the bevel, it's not sharp.
Knowing you're sharp is only part of the battle, getting sharp involves consistant angle, and doing it free hand takes practice, not to "roll" the edge, but stay close enough to make the edge (:cool:Initiateing the cone of silence:cool: don't tell anyone here, but I also use a jig****cone now off***):cool:. Some here have mentioned the wire edge. If you don't get that edge, you have not "zeroed" the angle on the bevel or you've rolled the bevel and taken the wire edge with it and thus the sharpness. You can make a mirror all day long, but if you don't take that metal completely off the end of the bevel, your not sharp. I havn't read all the posts and answers closely, are you glueing the sand paper down? I have had wetted down paper create a kind of wave in front of an edge and it dulls the results. Others may have luck with not glueing, I don't. For that reason I find it easier to use stones.

[Chen-Tin Tsai]

Well, after trying out some other sandpaper, I broke down and got a Veritas MkII jig. I just could not get the angle right, plus I had an eBay special plane that had a chip in the edge of the iron that was nearly 1/8"! I marked off the area I needed to grind off and went at it with a power drill and sanding disk with 80 grit (no bench grinder :o). After that, I chucked it into the Veritas, set it for 25 degrees, and went at it 120 grit. Unfortunately, due to some freehand errors with the sanding disk, the bevel was a tad out of square. But, with an hour of working with it, it squared up and started to get a burr!

After that, I progressed through my usual regimen of 220, 400, 800, 1000, 1500, and 2000, polishing the back as well. Both the bevel and the back (about an inch or so from the edge) shine like a mirror. :) After cleaning up the #4 that the blade came out of and reassembling it, I got some slightly better results. I got a shaving, full width (of the chunk of 2x4 that I was using...it was marked "Hem/Fir" at the BORG), and 0.004" thick. Now I'm getting somewhere. :D

Sadly, I now discovered that my flimsy plywood bench is not going to cut it so I have to look into building a proper woodworking bench. :)

Oh, yeah, anyone have any ideas about what sort of finish to use on my bubinga plane tote? Is it a hard wood to finish?

[Mark Roderick]

Just a thought about your flimsy plywood bench. If you can, screw the bench to a wall. You'll be amazed how stable your flimsy bench becomes.

[Matt Radtke]

Oh, yeah, anyone have any ideas about what sort of finish to use on my bubinga plane tote? Is it a hard wood to finish?

Totally a preference thing. I shellac and then beeswax mine. You could just as easily rub some BLO on it.

[Eddie Darby]

A picture is worth a thousand words, and a YouTube video is worth a thousand pictures!

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sharpening+plane+blades&search_type=&aq=f

[Josh Bowman]

After that, I chucked it into the Veritas, set it for 25 degrees, and went at it 120 grit. Unfortunately, due to some freehand errors with the sanding disk, the bevel was a tad out of square. But, with an hour of working with it, it squared up and started to get a burr!
Couple more things I leaned concerning sharpening and planes. Try using a good wood to test the plane with. Some reason the pine in our area does not give a good indication of how my planes work. Cherry and other types seem to give a better indication. Not saying you can't plane pine, you can, it's just not as consistant.
Lastly and for no reason I understand, if you will pick a direction to sharpen the blade in, either forward only or backward only as compared going forward AND backward, the bevel seems to get even sharper. I guess it again has to do with consistant angle and trying to sharpen both ways, the angle can change a bit.
If your getting that wire edge, your there. Great!