New Carbide Tools?? Anyone every use them?

[Hilel Salomon]

Hi,

The last thing I need is to have more tools, but I hate seeing something and not having at least one. I see that on Ebay and elsewhere there are several people selling carbide roughing and finishing tools, one of them has handle w/golf club like grips. They're relatively reasonable and I was wondering if any Creekers had taken the plunge. I have-and I'm not alone-thought of making my own easy rougher type tools, though I have two of them, but it strikes me that some of these are cheaper than making them.

Regards, Hilel.

[Jim Sebring]

I've had a CI-1 for more than a year. It's my go-to tool for initial bowl roughing until I get the blank round and balanced. It takes the abuse of interrupted cuts fine. Grizzley carbide replacement cutters for their spiral jointer heads work just fine and are inexpensive.

I also have a CI-0 that is the cat's meow for the last pass finishing cuts, especially on the inside of a bowl. It's less touchy than my Hunter #4 that needs the bevel to rub for good control. The CI-0 is held level on the rest set at center height and just drawn along the bowl wall lightly for whiskery shavings.

Neither tool is inexpensive, but each does a fine job without lots of thinking on my part.

[Charles Drake]

I believe you will find that the type of carbide tools sometimes founnd on ebay use metal cutting type carbide inserts (perhaps 6-8 degree bevels) while the easy rougher type inserts have about a 30 degree bevel. Because the first inserts must stand up to the rigors of metal cutting, they are not nearly as "sharp" as those used for wood cutting. Easy rougher tools are relatively easy to make and the type of carbide inserts used can be purchased for about $2 each at the right place. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Bob Haverstock]

Hi,

The last thing I need is to have more tools, but I hate seeing something and not having at least one. I see that on Ebay and elsewhere there are several people selling carbide roughing and finishing tools, one of them has handle w/golf club like grips. They're relatively reasonable and I was wondering if any Creekers had taken the plunge. I have-and I'm not alone-thought of making my own easy rougher type tools, though I have two of them, but it strikes me that some of these are cheaper than making them.

Regards, Hilel.


Hilel,

I have dabbled with with same home made carbide tools. I bought the inserts and made the rest of the tool holders and handles. Even carbide will get dull. I have the diamond wheels to sharpen the stuff. (In my past life I was machinest then toolmaker.)

This week I wiped out a Hunter insert when I hit a bit of inbedded steel that was hiding in a bowl blank. Carbide is hard and unsupport carbide is fragile.

Bob Haverstock

[Hilel Salomon]

Thanks All,

I have two sets each (two shops so...) of the easy rougher and easy finishers and like them very much. I've had better luck with the easy finisher than with my Hunter tools or my eliminator ones. I'm thinking that it's my fault and that my technique is wrong.
Anyway, I noticed that both on Ebay and on the internet, there are several sites selling similar tools. One of them is http://www.thingswestern.com/3.html, and I was thinking of maybe getting one of the triangular bit tools.
I wonder if there is therapy available for a compulsive shopper???

Stay Well,

Hilel

[Richard Madison]

There must be a 12 step program out there somewhere for "Toolaholics Anon.". But you have to WANT to recover.

[Reed Gray]

I do love the carbide discs for the inside of boxes, but the other type of carbide cutters are just scrapers. My HSS scrapers will do anything that the carbide ones will do, and I can easily resharpen them. The thing that I don't think most people realize is that scrapers are great for heavy stock removal, especially on bowls. The carbide scrapers have smaller surface area than most heavy bowl scrapers, and are less intimidating than the bigger tools.

robo hippy

[Hilel Salomon]

Reed,

I think you were right on the money when you talked about "less intimidating." I have lots of round and semi-round scrapers but I have so many catches with them that I've stopped using them except to square off a bottom. Obviously, I'm doing something wrong but I'm not sure what it is.
Hilel.

[Reed Gray]

I think that most of the time, catches with scrapers are caused by biting off more than you can chew. If you get too much steel on the wood at one time, it over powers you, especially if you are hanging out too far off the tool rest. Most of the time for me, this is when coming from the bottom of the bowl to the transition area, and you end up cutting with the tip of the scraper and the side at the same time. This can also happen if the blank is uneven, and you just plunge in, and get a too deep of a cut.

The only other catches I have had with a scraper is when trying to make a finish cut on the inside rim of a bowl. I will never do this again with the scraper flat on the tool rest. You will get screeching and howling noises because the wall of the bowl is flexing/oscillating, and it can get severe enough to make a big catch happen and you blow up your bowl. A scraping cut will pull at the fibers more, and it doesn't make any difference how you sharpen your scraper: grinder burr, burnished burr, honed burr, no burr. This would make a great slow motion film shot. If you are doing a scraping cut with a gouge, the same thing can happen. If you have your scraper at a 45 degree angle in a shear cutting mode, and take very light cuts while supporting the outside of the bowl with your hand (applying the same amount of pressure with both your hand and the tool), this can be eliminated. A bowl steady rest can help here. This almost never happens on the outside of the bowl, because with all the wood mass left on the inside of the bowl, it won't vibrate.

robo hippy

[Mark Hubl]

I, like many, thought that making one to try before buying was the way to go. I like my initial result and will make a swan neck next. Need to do more research on rehardening and then will have at it.

This tool has a round cutter with an edge, so if used properly it is cutting. It does have a sweet spot and I think it likes to be pulled. It can be catchy when learning it. I made this tool long just to see what to expect. I will probably never use it more than a few inches over the rest and will probably end up shortening it a tad. Only a few minutes of work at the drill press and grinder. I don't see it replacing my other hollowing tools, but it will be another tool in the bag of tricks.

[Steve Harder]

The round (for inside bowl) and square (for outside) carbide inserts are what I use for final passes to remove the last of tool marks and get my curves as smooth as possible.

I've found that you can provide very fine control of these by mounting them on a short steel handle and then mounting that into a steel snake. Now my hands can both be up close to the action, only controlling the tool in the horizontal plane, and able to take very fine cuts with no (almost none) unexpected slips or dings.

Also, the R2 inserts can be very nice inside a large bowl and the R4 inserts do a nice job at the inside center of a large bowl when you're working to get rid of the dimple and valley ridge that always seem to live at the center of my bowls. As you come across, you can watch the shaving move back and forth across the R4 insert face - it's good feedback, almost as good as when you run your finger over the surface.

[George Guadiane]

There must be a 12 step program out there somewhere for "Toolaholics Anon.". But you have to WANT to recover.

If you should decide to go looking for this 12 step program, and you find it, DO NOT tell anyone here!
I'm happy with my disease. :D

[Mike Stull]

I turn bowls up to 30" and use a gouge for everything. I just can't get the form I want with a scraper.

After 10 years of turning I'm still learning to use my bowl gouge. When ever I get the urge to buy another tool I take a class instead.

[Harlan Coverdale]

I bought a pair of the golf grip tools from Things Western a few years ago. They are well made, but the cutters are nowhere near the same as the cutters in the Ci1 and Ci0. The Ci tools cut, and the Things Western tools gnaw.

[Hilel Salomon]

wow!!
I got some info on the tools and learned a great deal. Thanks for the explanations, pictures and advice. Steve, did you make the tool and the snake holder? I do like the Easy Wood C10 and Ci1, but I'm not sure that I want to pay 20 bucks for the round carbide cutter. I see that carbide depot has them in lots of 5 though.

Once Again I recognize and appreciate the value of this forum. Incidentally, I met a non turning creeker who complained about the one-upmanship on tool selection among woodworkers and I told him that generally, turners were more friendly and helpful than -for example-the arborists when they start talking about their chainsaws!

Thanks, Hilel

[Steve Harder]

Steve, did you make the tool and the snake holder? I do like the Easy Wood C10 and Ci1, but I'm not sure that I want to pay 20 bucks for the round carbide cutter.

Homemade for about $60 - the most expensive material was the 1 1/4" trailer hitch receiver tube that I used as outside of the adjustable upright holder. The rest is 1" square and some bearings from the local machine shop.

As far as I know the round carbide cutter is only available from EasyTools - the round cutter you mentioned is not the same, it's fatter and doesn't have as good an edge for fine work. But you don't go thru the rounds that fast, you only use them for the last pass with a light cut. It's very forgiving and just snuggles up to the wood while taking a tiny shaving.

[Reed Gray]

The round flat type carbide discs cut like scrapers. The concave discs cut differently, and from my experience are extremely catch prone if you use them flat. Just too aggressive. This is why some of the hollowing tools that are disc cutters have the chip limiters on them. I never was able to get the chip limiter adjusted properly, seems they either didn't cut enough, or cut too much and plugged up.

I know that you can find the same micro/nano grained carbide discs and cutters out there, for a much better price, I just don't know where.

robo hippy

[gary butcher]

I have to admit to being very partial to the carbides. I have the easy rougher LE, easy rougher mini and easy finisher mini and they are my go to tools for making things. I use a skew as my scraper. I also use a bowl gauge as a shear scraper too but not as frequently.

I love the quick removal and accuracy of the square carbides too. The finishers round insert is great as a shear scraper as well.

[Dave Mueller]

I agree with Reed. The Hunter "cupped" carbide inserts are too grabby to be used flat. They need to be turned counter clockwise to a 45 degree down angle, but do cut very clean when used that way. I like the Easy Rougher flat round cutters used horizontal especially for hollowing. I know they scrape, but for endgrain they leave a beautiful finish.

I am modifying my homemade elbo tool for the flat round cutter like Steve did. I also just got an unhandled Rolly Munro shielded hollowing tool that I want to also try in the elbo tool. I got the Hunter cupped carbide round bit which I will try in the horizontal or slightly less than horizontal position. The Munro hollower leaves a really nice finish on both end and side grain, and I will not need to sharpen a round HSS bit using the Hunter carbide bit.

Incidentally, I talked to Mike Hunter about when to rotate the bit to a fresh edge, and he suggested doing a random rotation after every use so the whole bit wears evenly. Interesting thought.

[Gary Conklin]

In response to Reed's scraper post:

There is a great fix for minimizing catches with a scraper, make it a negative rake scraper. This is just the addition of a second bevel on the top side of the scraper, it makes for a smaller burr and fine finishing cut. That can only be done on carbide with a special grinding wheel.

[Reed Gray]

I have tried a negative rake scraper, and don't really find them practical. The burr is so fine that if you breathe on it, it is gone. Works okay for very minimal clean up work, but not much else. Definitely can't rough with it.

robo hippy