Frustrated with helical head inserts.

[Glen Butler]

You can take a look at this thread to get the background.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=133206

I wanted to reset the knive to get rid of some ridging in both the planer and jointer and have only made the problem worse. I installed the knives per the Jet tech's instructions he said they are supposed to sit on the little shelf (see above thread) and they are cutting horrible. The machining on the head is very difficult to set the knives because they dont slide smoothly, and they catch in several places as I try to ensure they are seating properly. I would say its user error if my powermatic jointer head had the same problem but it cuts smooth as glass. Jet is now closed and I could use some help:

1. People who have jet helical heads. How is the machining. Is there a little shelf as shown the thread above that the knives sit on?

2. Does anyone else have issues with knives cracking all the time while installing them.

I cracked 7 knives in the jet planer. 0 in the powermatic jointer. Granted the jet planer is 3 times larger but that still equates to 2 cracked inserts in the jointer.

[Brian Gumpper]

In case you didn't know, the Powermatic uses Byrd heads and JET uses a copy made in Asia. I've never heard of a complaint with the JET head but that could be the reason for differences in machining.

[glenn bradley]

Man, it just pains me to hear about you having to fight this thing. Is it a new purchase? Any chance of a return? That thing couldn't have been cheap and these types of problems just don't seem right.

I know that was no help but this just gets my fur up.

[Glen Butler]

I tried another call to jet and they were closed. So I tried calling a local tool supplier and they were so close to closed that their tech was gone. So I called Nordic Saw who is in Cali so sure to still be open. Jay there said the machining on a helical head has to be perfect and burs will cause the knives to not seat right.

Then I got a call from the local place, Timberline Tools, and the tech had got my message, he drove an hour and a half to get to me at 9 PM tonight. I showed him my planing and he confirmed that it sucks. We reset the knives and voila . . . no they still sucked. Had you there for a minute though didn't I. He thinks it may be that the cosmoline was still on the head when the knives were installed. Overtime the cosmoline would completely squish out and the teeth would vibrate, if ever so little. This explains why over time the cut has decreased in quality and the knives will not seat properly. Nonetheless he agrees that the head needs replacement and is hopeful that we will be able to get the powermatic head for it. He also says he will make sure I get knives to replace the 16 that we broke. I broke 10 the first go around and he broke 6. He says he's never had such a problem.

[Van Huskey]

I tried another call to jet and they were closed. So I tried calling a local tool supplier and they were so close to closed that their tech was gone. So I called Nordic Saw who is in Cali so sure to still be open. Jay there said the machining on a helical head has to be perfect and burs will cause the knives to not seat right.

Then I got a call from the local place, Timberline Tools, and the tech had got my message, he drove an hour and a half to get to me at 9 PM tonight. I showed him my planing and he confirmed that it sucks. We reset the knives and voila . . . no they still sucked. Had you there for a minute though didn't I. He thinks it may be that the cosmoline was still on the head when the knives were installed. Overtime the cosmoline would completely squish out and the teeth would vibrate, if ever so little. This explains why over time the cut has decreased in quality and the knives will not seat properly. Nonetheless he agrees that the head needs replacement and is hopeful that we will be able to get the powermatic head for it. He also says he will make sure I get knives to replace the 16 that we broke. I broke 10 the first go around and he broke 6. He says he's never had such a problem.

That is some serious service and hopefully you get it squared away!

[Philip Johnson]

That is some very good customer service on the techs part. Now I am no expert but it seems hard to believe a little grease would mess up the head. Seems more likely there is an issue with the machining of the head and the inserts are not seating properly. I hope you get it squared away, its always frustrating when things don't work as advertised.

Phil

[glenn bradley]

Glad to hear they're stepping up. Hope they get you squared away soon.

[J.R. Rutter]

Kudos to Timberline!

[Peter Aeschliman]

what a hassle. But that customer service is top notch! That guy probably had some explaining to do to his wife when he got home late.

If you can get the byrd (PM) head at no extra cost, you're going to be a lucky man!

[Glen Butler]

what a hassle. But that customer service is top notch! That guy probably had some explaining to do to his wife when he got home late.

If you can get the byrd (PM) head at no extra cost, you're going to be a lucky man!

I was shocked when he said in an almost "I'm sorry" way, "I have a couple people to take care of ahead of you then I can come." I said "So what day?" He said "Oh, it will be tonight in a few hours I just have a couple stops to make first." I was floored.


That is some very good customer service on the techs part. Now I am no expert but it seems hard to believe a little grease would mess up the head. Seems more likely there is an issue with the machining of the head and the inserts are not seating properly. I hope you get it squared away, its always frustrating when things don't work as advertised.

Phil

I agree, I think the machining was off to begin with. It could be a little of both though. It is clear that there was some movement of the inserts because there are polished spot on the head, and the cut got worse over time. But the screws were all still tight so the inserts should not have been able to move. Perhaps they weren't all torqued the same.

Nonetheless I am glad the issue is being resolved, I told the tech I would pay the difference to get the powermatic head. He said most of the time when replacement parts come they are powermatic, that is so they only have to stock one line of parts instead of 2 or 3. Less costly in the end.

My hats off to Timberline Tools, they have really stepped up this time.

[Danny Burns]

Kudos to Timberline!
I'll see your Kudos and raise you a double Kudos!:rolleyes:

[Van Huskey]

That is one thing I like about PM and Jet, they usually send a human to you for warranty work, many of the others may be nice on the phone and be happy to send parts but I want/expect someone to FIX it for me, one reason the premium for Jet/PM and their 5 year warranty is well worth it for me.

[Glen Butler]

I felt this story requires a conclusion. That occurred today when I finished setting all the inserts back in. The Timberline tech again showed up last night after 9 pm. I helped him tear out the old head and put the new one in. The machining is a night and day difference. I didn't end up with the powermatic head, but this time I cannot tell a difference. The inserts went in beautifully; none of them broke. I have been working with hickory today and it is coming out glass smooth.

I just read a thread where the OP questioned whether to get a helical head. Even with all the problems I had, I would still get a helical head. They rock! Ridging (timberline tech uses scalloping FYI) is so minor it doesn't affect a glue joint in the least.

[Karl Card]

service like that is the difference between a job and someone likeing there job.

I am glad you got your machine worked out, sound great.

[Van Huskey]

Glad to hear all is well!!!

[Alan Schaffter]

Two notes on mounting new inserts-


The insert and seat must be perfectly clean- no dust, residue, etc.

Be careful torquing them down. Use the manufacturers specs- which are usually listed in inch-pounds NOT foot-pounds. You can't use most automotive torque wrenches because they are in foot-pounds. If you trust the calibration- HF sells an inch-pound torque wrench.