How many TS blades do I really need??

[Montie Ryals]

I need help picking/choosing TS blades - I'm a newbie, mostly making shop cabinets and shop tables right now to skill up (workbench, router table, miter saw stand, etc.) so that's mostly fiberboard/plywood.

I don't want to re-buy blades when I start working with "real wood", but I DO want a dedicated plywood/melamine blade. Ideas?

Blades I got: the Gen.Purpose junk blade DeWalt sent w/saw, a Freud glue-line rip blade and a Frued dado set(the cheaper one, but not the dial-a-width) received @ Christmas.

Does the glue line rip blade work as advertised or should I plan on jointing the cuts anyway?

I'm guessing I need a plywood/melamine blade and some kind of crosscut finish blade? What do I use for box joints - the dado?

Thanks, and for now budget isn't much of a consideration - I don't want to re-buy the blades later on.

Thanks,
Montie The Perplexed

[Glen Butler]

I have 4 blades. 24 or 30 tooth glue line rip -- yes set up properly it will give you glue lines, 50 tooth combi, 80 tooth crosscut and a 100 tooth melamine blade.

The tenryu mel-pro is an awesome blade. Rock solid and true. With time your will see the difference over your freud blades and especially your cheap blades. It will leave you wishing you had more of the tenryu line. At least that is where I stand right now. My other blades are freud and though a good blade, there is a difference.

The mel-pro is perfect for melamine and veneered plywood. With the right blade height you will get perfect melamine edges. It technically would give you excellent crosscuts too, but there are less expensive blades that will do that.

Its nice having a combination blade for general wood working where you don't need to change your blade all the time.

[Van Huskey]

I dunno, I counted a couple of weeks ago when posting in a thread and I quite when I got to 40... I think I have about 60 or so, and this isn't a lifetime collection they are all sharp, all different and most get used and I am not a pro! :eek:

Do as I say not as I do.

First, the Freud glue line will do the job in a well tuned saw, I find the std kerf does a better job than the TK. For a crosscut I like their LU88 which you can also do more ripping with than you would think that way if you just need a rip or two you don't have to change blades. If you want to spend a little more get the P410 Freud or the Forrest WWII and just use the rip when you have a LOT to rip at one time. I think most people can use a plywood blade, Freud and Forrest both make excellent ply/mel blades. For the easiest and best box joints Freud has a box joint set.


For me the basic blades would be a heavy duty rip, a highend combo and a plywood blade.

My favorites are Freud and Forrest but Infinity and Tenryu also make top notch blades.

One thing I would say is if you plan to cut a lot of MDF I avoid using my best blades since it dulls blades like nothing else.

[Myk Rian]

The glue-line is good to have for material UP TO 1".
The junky one that came with the saw can be used for general ripping.
A good crosscut comes in handy, as does a good combo blade.

[Brian Penning]

Just 2. Both combination blades. (I like WWII)
Why 2? So you can use the backup after the SawStop brakes slams into it and ya gotta send it out for repair.....grumble....mumble.....stupid miter gauge..... ;)

[Hugh Jardon]

Just 2. Both combination blades. (I like WWII)
Why 2? So you can use the backup after the SawStop brakes slams into it and ya gotta send it out for repair.....grumble....mumble.....stupid miter gauge..... ;)

Wouldn't the sawstop feature then be inop until it came back from repair?

[Larry Schwenk]

While I do have several types, all but two just hang on the wall gathering dust.

My primary blade is the Forrest Woodworker 2 (primary and a new spare in the box) and a good dado set; I liked the Forrest so much I shelled out the $$$ for their Dado King 8". Just finished a bathroom vanity and a freestanding storage cabinet. Just those two blades are perfect for "my" needs as I normally only run cabinet grade plywood and hardwood through the saw. Not a fan of the thin-kerf on the TS, too old school and am used to deducting 1/8" so I know what's left to use. :rolleyes:

Naturally if I need to cut rougher type lumber and don't need a smooth cut I'll just blow the dust off one of my freebie blades without worrying about causing any damage to the blade.

Blades are just like table saws, everyone has an option on what's best. Your best bet is to buy a high quality new combo blade when you need one and build a collection of a few. Always keep that free one that comes with saws; it will cut through a nail just as good as a $100 blade :D

[Mike Cruz]

Listen, you can buy yourself silly with blades. There is a blade for every possible cut. But to answer your question... 1. A good combination blade will do a fantastic job. Will it make the BEST cuts on ALL materials in ANY direction? No. But, it will do all of them nicely. Conversly, you do NOT want to rip with a crosscut blade, and you don't want to crosscut with a rip blade. Neither will do even close to a decent job.

So that is why my answer is 1. Okay, you could go with 2, if you want to make sure there is no down time when you are getting the first one sharpened.

That said, you could easily justify a rip blade (1), a crosscut (2), a plywood (3), a melamine (4), and probably a host of others. But you question was how many do you need... to which I say 1.

THAT said, the only other that I would say would be truly arguably a "need" would be a good dado set. But I'm not sure if that qualifies under your question. :)

[brian c miller]

I use:

one junk blade to break down questionable lumber

One good ripping blade

One good combo blade

One good dado stack

As for brand I like Ridge carbide, every bit as good as WWII.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I have the following blades

- 24 Tooth rip

- 80 tooth crosscut

- 80 tooth TCG for melamine

- 50T combo

- some junk blade for when the kid with the piece of plywood he rescued from a ditch shows up at my house.

I use the combo for stuff that isn't critical, or thick.

Once you get into ripping the rip blade sails through the job far better than the combo.

For crosscutting same deal, if you're doing a lot, or need the finish quality, use the cross cut blade.

I normally do all my ripping, then cross cutting etc, so stopping to change the blade isn't a big deal.

I mostly have FS Tools blades............Regards, Rod.

[Curt Harms]

I like to have one blade with a flat tooth grind. I think the glue-line rip blades are ground ATB, not flat but I don't have one. The flat top grind works great for miter joint keys and "nibbling" a la Norm. There are no v shaped corners to non-through cuts. I don't find that the Freud LM72 rips any better than the Freud F40 at least in material <1" thick though I'm sure it'd be faster in thicker material.

[scott spencer]

Hi Montie - Everyone's situation and preferences are different, so it's best to get what suits your needs, and your saw. What saw do you have? Read these tips for picking a saw blade (http://lumberjocks.com/knotscott/blog/12395).

The glue line rippers (GLR) will deliver what they promised, but they won't flatten the face of a board so they don't really replace a jointer. They're also fairly limited in their operating range. The GLRs are generally not recommended for material over 1", so you'll still find yourself needing a blade to rip thicker materials. The GLRs are also not known for crosscutting well, so you'll still need some ability to get acceptable crosscuts. Most 30T to 50T general purpose combo blades which will also give glue ready edges, will rip cleanly in thicker material than the GLR (up to 1-1/2" to 2" depending on the blade and the saw), will crosscut well, and offer more versatility. Since the GLRs have a such a limited operating range, I suggest using more of a general purpose type blade for glue line ripping. The triple chip grind of the GLRs does hold up well, so may be a good choice for MDF, high volume ripping, or for other materials known to be extra tough on blades.

A blade with a Hi-ATB grind (a bevel > 25°) will offer the least amount of tearout for plywood and melamine. The same grind also happens to crosscut extremely well, so if you choose well there's really no reason to have a separate plywood and a separate crosscut blade unless you're usage volumes approach commercial quantities. Typically something with 60T to 80T and a Hi-ATB grind will do extremely well in both applications. Examples of top choices: Infinity 010-060 or 010-080, Forrest Duraline, Freud LU80 or LU79 (TK), Amana MB10-800, CMT 210.080.10.

Without knowing more info, so far I'm hearing two possible blades for you...a good general purpose blade and a plywood/crosscut blade...you can always add a ripper later on if necessary. Read the link above before choosing to help you narrow the field.

You can use your dado set for box joints, but you can also use a router or single blade....you don't need a specialty box joint blade.

[Brian Penning]

Wouldn't the sawstop feature then be inop until it came back from repair?


I meant the blade gets sent out for repair. I have an extra SS brake on hand.

[Dave Gaul]

I fell in love with my 50T Freud Avanti Combo when I first got it. Was my only blade for ~3 years on a table top saw. Now I have a "big boy" saw, still use the combo, but have added a 24T Freud Avanti ripping blade (for heavy ripping hard maple & oak) and a 60T Freud crosscutter, plus the Ridgid 40T GP blade that came with the saw.

Use the Combo for rough cuts and most softwood cuts
Use the Rip for obviously ripping, but mainly for hardwoods
Use the Crosscut for cutting to final length
Rarely use the GP, but it's there if I need it

Also have a brand new 8" Oshlun dado set... LOVE IT so far!

Only other blade I can think of needing at this point is a box joint blade, either the Freud set or the one from Infinity... Probably will get the Freud set in the near future...

Oh, and maybe a melamine type blade eventually!

[Philip Johnson]

For the last 15 years I have used one blade Forrest WWII now I have maybe 4 of em and the Forrest dado king set and they all cut so well I never look at any other blades. I get glass smooth cuts in lumber, melamine, mdf and ply so why mess around and bother changing blades. I bought one thin kerf blade by mistake and I was never happy with it,,,it didn't seem to cut as well even with blade stabilizers

IF I were doing a lot of ripping with a powerfeed or primarly worked with melamine or thick lumber I would consider getting a dedicated blade for that purpose.

Years ago I was at a wood show and Forrest had a demo with their baldes, the man was making amazingly smooth cuts on a small table saw. I had never heard of Forrest and he asked how many people owned one. About 25 people raised their hands he said he would buy back your blade for what you paid for it if you didn.t like it, not a single person would give up their Forrest blade. So I bought one and never put anything else on a saw.

Phil

[Nicholas Lingg]

I keep a couple of 7 1/4 er's on hand for when I'm preping dirty or used wood

[Prashun Patel]

If you're a newbie, I highly suggest you get the Freud Avanti 50t Combo. It's cheap and really great for ripping < 1". It's excellent at cross cutting most things too. Very little chip out. Also, it's a narrow kerf blade, so if you have a saw with less than 2hp, it'll help you cut thicker stock when necessary.

If/when you get into cutting things > 1", you should get a real ripping blade. If you have a jointer that you like using, then get a cheap ripping blade (Oldham from HD) and clean up yr cut on the jointer like me. It is my belief that the spendier ripping blades don't cut more effectively - just cleaner and stay sharper longer. I use the cheap ones disposably, though.

[Dave Gaul]

If you are considering any Freud Avanti blades (not the knock-off Avanti's made in china sold at HD now), get them now! Freud isn't making the Avanti's anymore IIRC, they now make TK versions of their Industrial line of blades

[chris dub]

I have a 24" rip, 80 & 100T Melemeine/Plywood and 60T Cross cut. But I tend to only use a freud fusion general purpose blade. My shop time doesn't lend it self well to changing blades frequently. Time, work habits and project type have a lot to do with it. I'm planing to make a kitchen table soon. In that case I will work even more slowly (than i do already) and use various blades. But for the shop stuff and paint grade projects that I need to get done, 40T GP is just fine.

[Kent A Bathurst]

.... I have used one blade Forrest WWII now I have maybe 4 of em and the Forrest dado king set and they all cut so well I never look at any other blades. I get glass smooth cuts in lumber, melamine, mdf and ply so why mess around and bother changing blades. I bought one thin kerf blade by mistake and I was never happy with it,,,it didn't seem to cut as well even with blade stabilizers

IF I were doing a lot of ripping with a powerfeed or primarly worked with melamine or thick lumber I would consider getting a dedicated blade for that purpose........

Heh-heh-heh - a slippery slope indeed. I got 1 WWII 40t as my first buy because of a review somewhere (FWW?). Now own 2 WW II for std everyday use - 1 on the saw and the spare out for sharpening. Also a WW II 30t - very nice for 8/4 + hardwood. Plus the 80t ATB panel saw. Plus the Dado King. Plus 2 12" Chopmaster for the CMS.

But - from a rational standpoint, the WW II 40t can get the job done for you very well - no need to go crazy. I know there are guys that use just the 30t, and are happy with it. As another reply notes, if you are cutting a lot of panels, the 80t ATB is great - I got it for those times when I am using expensive hardwood-veneer plywood.

I am not dissing any other brands. Like Philip, I felt I got a terrific product on my first buy, and have no reason to go somewhere else.

BTW - I have considered the thin-kerf, but I don't want to screw around changing the calibration on the TS fence.

[Tom Walz]

December 2009 Fine woodworking had an article on this.

Tenryu Saw Blades
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/categories/Tenryu-Saw-Blades/ (http://www.carbideprocessors.com/categories/Tenryu-Saw-Blades/)

[Wayne Jolly]

I think you really need to evaluate what you will be cutting, how much of it, and when. From what I read, at the present time you are cutting primarily crap, so get crap blades. You said that you don't want to buy another set of blades later on, but I think you should reconsider. There will be many times that you will be working with both good quality hardwoods and crap. You won't want to use a $100 Forrest blade to work with crap, and you probably don't want to use a crap blade to cut that nice piece of curly Maple, or cherry or Bubbinga, or whatever.

When I am cutting crap, I use a $30 tosser. That way if it should get damaged or just dull, I haven't wasted much money. But when I start working with good quality hardwoods, I put on my Forrest.

xeddog

[Robert Chapman]

In my opinion the Forrest Woodworker ll with 30 teeth is the best all around blade for both crosscutting and ripping. I use it in a 1.5 hp table saw and work only with hardwoods.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Blade corral includes the following (2) WWII's (one of which has never seen a board, and the other has been repaired by Forrest, but not returned to the saw), (2) Freud LU84R 50 tooth combos, (2) DeWalt combos, dedicated melamine blades from Amana, and DeWalt, (2) 80 tooth HATB fom Leitz, a bunch of DeWalt 80 tooth blades, (4) Oldham signature 40 tooth GP blades, and a STACK of DeWalt / Delta 7657's. When the first WWII was out for repairs, I put my first 7657 on the saw, and Forrest never went back on the saw. The 7657's do everything I need of them. They can be had from Cripe Distributing for $17 each, plus shipping which is about ten bucks. I have a Freud "Glue Line Rip," but when ripping 1/4" material for fronts of shelves and cabinets, I like my LU84R better.

[Kevin Groenke]

You need 4 + the dado.

I'm currently staying away from thin kerfs, unless I'm ripping scale lumber, they seem to vibrate a bit in the sawstop.

40T combo for composite sheets and utility work - for the $ I'm way impressed with Kempston (http://www.amazon.com/Kempston-99320-10-Inch-Industrial-General/dp/B0013KQT38/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1266634703&sr=8-5) blades. You can spend more - I don't see the point.

24T Glue line rip - make it a .125" FTG and you can also use it for finger joints and flat bottomed dados/tenons - again, the Kempston (http://www.amazon.com/Kempston-99312-10-Inch-Industrial-Coating/dp/B0013KTUQ6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1266635468&sr=1-2).

80T Hi-ATB (http://www.amazon.com/Oshlun-SBL-100080-10-Inch-Melamine-Laminates/dp/B001KW00YI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1266635235&sr=1-4) for veneer ply, melamine, etc.. (maybe x-cut too).

60T - 80T TCG w/negative rake for plastics, aluminum and clean x-cuts in solid wood. Fewer teeth is better for cutting thicker stock. We have a few of these, they all work: the most durable is an FS Tool that's been in the shop for 10+ yrs.

You also want a box joint set (http://www.amazon.com/Freud-SBOX8-Cutter-4-Inch-grooves/dp/B000ASGV1E) - ok, maybe you need 5.

-kg

[glenn bradley]

Wow, lively discussion and a great example of different needs for different folks. I am a hobbyist and have 8 blades for the table saw; 2 each of (thin kerf) 80T crosscut (Freud), 40T general (Lietz and Forrest) and 24T rip (Freud and Lietz). That way I never get stopped while one is out for sharpening. I also have a full kerf FTG that I use for 1/8" slots and a thrasher that I use for non-ferrous metals and anything else nasty. Also a Freud dado stack.

As to how many do you really need? Some folks swear that one do-it-all blade does everything they need. I use a specific crosscut and rip blade much more than any of the others; each for its purpose, as that's what I mostly use a tablesaw for. It is nice to have a 40T blade for rough cutting to size or faster cutting on sheetgoods. Specialty blades will depend on what you do enough of that is special ;-)

[phil harold]

I think you really need to evaluate what you will be cutting, how much of it, and when. From what I read, at the present time you are cutting primarily crap, so get crap blades. You said that you don't want to buy another set of blades later on, but I think you should reconsider. There will be many times that you will be working with both good quality hardwoods and crap. You won't want to use a $100 Forrest blade to work with crap, and you probably don't want to use a crap blade to cut that nice piece of curly Maple, or cherry or Bubbinga, or whatever.

When I am cutting crap, I use a $30 tosser. That way if it should get damaged or just dull, I haven't wasted much money. But when I start working with good quality hardwoods, I put on my Forrest.

xeddog
+1

I run crap blades for crap too
keep eyes out for sales
3 blades for 20-30 bucks at sears or box stores
just rember for saftey sakes

Always Use Sharp Blades

[Tony Shea]

Some very good suggestions on what kinds of blades a good collection should include. But as for brand I'm shocked that so many people are reccomending Freud and Forrest. I'm amazed at how many Forrest fans there are especially considering the price to quality ratio. Maybe I missed it but I'm shocked that there are no reccomendations for Infinity blades! I have had great success with their couple of blades I have of theirs (dado set, 1/4" flat bottom crosscut). And I have hear amazing things about their newer 40T Super General Purpose blades which is something I'm ordering this weekend. IMO they make one of the absolute best dado sets on the market especially when you factor in the price, $100 cheaper than the Forrest Dadoking. Not only are their blades top notch but I have had unbelieving customer service from these guys. They want you to be happy with your purchase and if your not they will go out of their way to search you down to make you happy. I had them contact me once about a small issue with my dado set which had nothing to do with quality of cut. I am in no way affiliated with them but just real happy customer. Do yourself a favor and check them out, real good people and blades over there.

[glenn bradley]

I'm amazed at how many Forrest fans there are especially considering the price to quality ratio. Maybe I missed it but I'm shocked that there are no reccomendations for Infinity blades!

Probably just the luck of the draw;). I don't recall ever hearing some say they didn't like their Infinity blades. I imagine some other owners will chime in. :) Not to cause the purpose of the thread to slip but, as to Forrest, you, I and a few others are the minority. Once my WWII is used up, I won't be going back for another. It is not all it is said to be IMHO. All my blades except my old thrasher out perform it.:confused:

[Kent A Bathurst]

........ I'm amazed at how many Forrest fans there are especially considering the price to quality ratio..........


It's the Kool-Aid, of course. Color-coded - Purple for Forrest. Green for Festool. Orange for SawStop. Deep-Super-Tuscan-Ornellaia-Sassicaia-Gaja red for the Italian bandsaw group.

BTW - emphatically disagree with your evaluation about the Forrest price-to-quality, Tony. I think I am on a very good spot on that curve. But again, it's really just the Kool-Aid.:p

[glenn bradley]

Deep-Super-Tuscan-Ornellaia-Sassicaia-Gaja red for the Italian bandsaw group.

I just blew coffee all over my monitor :D:D:D:D

[scott spencer]

Some very good suggestions on what kinds of blades a good collection should include. But as for brand I'm shocked that so many people are reccomending Freud and Forrest. I'm amazed at how many Forrest fans there are especially considering the price to quality ratio. Maybe I missed it but I'm shocked that there are no reccomendations for Infinity blades! ....

Since the OP hasn't really weighed in with more specific info, we really haven't progressed to specific suggestions that are suitable for him. I've used some excellent blades from some popular names and some less popular, but have yet to try an Infinity product that didn't elicit a "wow" on first inspection and again on first use. I suspect most people go with the more popular choices with their first big blade expenditures...since those are typically "good nuff", they never look back, and never know what else is out there. I always assumed it was normal to try 40 or 50 blades, but I'm beginning to think I'm wrong... ;)

Montie - After all this great discussion, please tell us you're not a "hit and run"!

[Kent A Bathurst]

I just blew coffee all over my monitor :D:D:D:D

Coulda been worse, Glenn - coulda been the Sassicaia!!! :p

[Stephen Edwards]

OK, I'm sold! I'll try an Infinity blade sometime.

I have 15-20 TS blades. I use only three or four of them. Really, I should give the others away to someone who does those "cutesy" paintings on old saw blades.

I have a HF blade and a Skill Blade that I use for very rough sizing or cutting up junk boards. Both are disposable.

Then, I have 2 Freud thin kerf blades that I use for everything else. I forget the numbers on the blades. Both produce a glue line rip and perfectly smooth crosscuts.

The most difficult thing for me to adjust to after buying the Freud blades was to get it through my thick head that I don't have to joint an edge after ripping it on that high quality blade! I do use the jointer to get one edge straight to begin with.

I realize that there are different camps on this subject. Still, that's what works for me now.

[Montie Ryals]

No Mr. Spencer, I'm not a "hit n'run". I don't post if I have nothing to add...:cool: And I've been busy putting mobile bases together and setting up the new Rikon 14" bandsaw. My TS is a DeWalt 746, long rails, wired 240.

It looks like collecting blades is part of the fun!
My original post said I'll be doing a lot of ply/mel so I think I'll invest in one of those - I have seen the FWW article on blades and will review it for specifics, also Wood or Pop.WW did a review as well.

The dado set I have will do for the ply/mel, if I do fine furniture, I'll spring for better.

Wood Magazine had a breakdown crib project I'd love to make for a friend, so I'll likely pick up a 40-tooth GP blade for that project; Forrest so I can make my own evaluation.

So: a 40-tooth WWII, a ply/mel, and when I start on the workbench top a dedicated rip.

Thanks all for your posts, don't know what I'd do without this site. Next: bandsaw blades!:eek:

Montie