Wood vs Iron Jack & Jointer Planes?

[Steve Friedman]

I am about to buy two new planes - a jack and a jointer - to flatten and square rough lumber. My question is, would you choose:

Wood? Bevel-Down Iron? Bevel-Up Iron?

Thanks for your input

Steve

[David Gendron]

Are you looking at buying new? Are you in a rush? If you answer yes at both, you don't have much choices in term of woodies(some manufacturer are 1 to 2 years behind). But a lot of choices for iron planes. Personaly I realy like the feel of wood on wood, and the simplicity of wood planes, so I'm switching slowly to woodies. As for metal body plane, I like the standard bevel down type, but that is a mather of preferences! One adventage of metal body plane, is the ease of ajustment, to advence the blade, close the mouth, where a most woodies take a little practice!

[Jim Koepke]

I am about to buy two new planes - a jack and a jointer - to flatten and square rough lumber. My question is, would you choose:

Wood? Bevel-Down Iron? Bevel-Up Iron?

Thanks for your input

Steve

Too many factors are left unanswered.

First would be about your personal preference.

Have you used both types of planes? I like both kinds, they are different and metal planes seem to be more prevalent when looking to purchase.

When you say new, are you prepared to buy new LV or LN planes?

If you mean new to you, then finding a good restorable metal plane is more likely than to find old woodies that are in good shape. Metal may rust, but wood splits and also wears when used a lot. Metal can wear but not as fast.

To flatten and square rough lumber, you may find metal planes more accommodating. If you are buying new and intend to do a lot of this, you may want to actually get a scrub, a joiner and a smoother.

jim

[Robert Rozaieski]

For a jack plane (i.e. roughing plane with heavy camber and heavy cut), I like wood. It's lighter and won't require as much effort as a metal plane for scrubbing tasks.

For a jointer, either will work well (I still like wood). You're typically taking a shaving thicker than a smoother but not hogging like with a jack, so the difference in weight between wooden and metal jointers is less of an issue. Some actually prefer a heavier plane for a jointer.

It's mostly personal preference as both wood and metal will do the job if set up properly.

[Bruce Campbell]

The new vs used bit is important. It's said you should go new on a jointer. YMMV.

That being said if you do want a woodie and new there are a couple options: ECE German planes which you can get through adria tools (along with some very nice saws) and there's also Blum tools wooden planes which come in a variety of woods. Possible downside is an unusual blade system but the whole package looks pretty sexy and I'm given to believe that the customer support is fantastic. Nice part about both woody choices is that comparedto LN/LV planes the prices are much lower. I'm also sure there are other woody makers but I only follow those two because the prices on the few others I've seen are as impressive as the craftsmanshipb

FYI I do not own any woodies have used an ECE smoother once for like two passes. Was planning on buying when my wife and mother surprised me with a basic set of old stanleys (4, 6, 7, 190, and low angle block). Still planning on some woodiesonce I figure out how to explain to the ladies why I need more planes.

[David Keller NC]

Steve - I own and regularly use a good number of wooden planes, iron Stanleys, and new LN/LV planes, as well as the odd infill smoother or panel plane on occasion.

Leaving the cost question aside for the moment (you can pay more for a new wooden plane than a LN/LV, and vice versa), here's a couple of thoughts to help focus your decision:

1) Wooden planes are almost always substantially lighter in weight than their equivalent length metal brothers. This is good in a foreplane or a jointer, not so good in a smoother on some types of wood.

2) Wooden planes have considerably less friction between the plane and the wood being planed than an equivalent metal plane. This is not a subtle difference - it's immediately obvious to the most rank newbie that visits my shop.

3) Wooden planes move quite a bit in an environment that sees a lot of swings in relative humidity. Steel or iron planes don't do this. In some cases, it will be necessary to remove some of the sole of the wooden plane to get it back to flat. Done carefully, that won't compromise its durability in your lifetime.

4) Metal planes rust unless looked after scrupously with oil/wax. Wooden planes don't.

5) While it is quite possible for a wooden plane to have a very tight mouth and be precision adjustable with a mallet, in practice this can be harder to acheive for a beginner than with a modern, high-quality manufactured adjustable metal plane. This is especially true if you choose a wooden antique to fix up to save some bucks. If you want a tight mouth on an antique (for your jointer, for example - a foreplane needs a very open mouth, not a tight one), you will need to learn to "throat" it, which is gluing in and flattening a patch to close up the mouth of the plane where a century of wear and flattening have opened the mouth.

As you may have guessed, there isn't a perfect plane out there, at any (low) or (high) price. If you're in a well-regulated basement shop and wish to process all of your lumber by hand, I would recommend going with wood - it will save substantial labor. If you've an unregulated garage shop, you may be better off with metal planes, though you will have to scrupulously keep up the oiling/waxing to prevent rust.

[Steve Friedman]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I guess I neglected to fill in some details.

While cost is always a factor, I am looking to buy new. This is a 55th birthday gift to myself and I like shiny new toys. If it's iron, it'll be LV or LN. If wood, I am leaning towards the ECE Primus.

Also, I already have a LN scrub and #4, which I use for green wood bowl carving. I have used the ECE scrub (non Primus) and actually like it better than my LN scrub. The point is that I don't have problems fiddling with the blade adjustment.

Steve

[Jim R Edwards]

If I were buying a new plane it would be any Lee Valley bevel up plane. In my opinion there isnt a better plane for the price. Again only my opinion. Check flea markets for woodies. They are fun to use and easier to tune up.

[Chris Friesen]

A jack is often used to remove large amounts of material, often with a cambered blade. For this a bevel-down version has some advantages over bevel-up. (That said, I have a bevel-up jack for flexibility since it was the first *good* plane I bought and it works well on a shooting board and for lighter cuts.)

Wooden jointers can be had much longer than metal ones.

[Bruce Campbell]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I guess I neglected to fill in some details.

While cost is always a factor, I am looking to buy new. This is a 55th birthday gift to myself and I like shiny new toys. If it's iron, it'll be LV or LN. If wood, I am leaning towards the ECE Primus.

Also, I already have a LN scrub and #4, which I use for green wood bowl carving. I have used the ECE scrub (non Primus) and actually like it better than my LN scrub. The point is that I don't have problems fiddling with the blade adjustment.

Steve

well based on that I'd go with a woodie Jack and a metal jointer. You already know you like the woodies and your Jack would get used a lot. Metal jointer because it's the most finicky on getting square and metal won't move as much with seasonal changes whereas the Jack can afford a little movement here and there. Other nice point is you save a little bit financially getting a woodie that you can apply to your choice of jointer. Just my two cents. Love to know what you decide, keep us informed. Pictures when you get them so I can drool and dream.

[Pam Niedermayer]

...While cost is always a factor, I am looking to buy new. This is a 55th birthday gift to myself and I like shiny new toys. If it's iron, it'll be LV or LN. If wood, I am leaning towards the ECE Primus....

Steve

You should also take a look at the HNT Gordon (http://www.hntgordon.com.au/) planes. Then of course there are the Japanese planes. It would also be a good idea to get a wooden scrub plane to prepare the piece for jack and/or try planes.

Pam

[David Gendron]

Pam, can you suggest a good japanese plane maker?

[Pam Niedermayer]

Pam, can you suggest a good japanese plane maker?

The job of plane making is split between a blacksmith and a dai maker, so yes and no. For dai, I normally rely on Inomoto-san and myself. I recently ordered a block plane convertered to a hikouki for planing kumiko, the thin strips in shoji. Omich-san is making the dai as recommended by Tomohito-san of Iida Tools (http://www.japantool-iida.com/). The blade is made by Tsunesaburo, but I have no idea who build the original dai.

Typically the planes are listed by the blacksmith's name or trademark, some highly recommended blacksmiths are: Funahiro, Tasai, Tsunesaburo, Mosaku, Yokoyama, and Koetsu. Most any of the planes listed on the SoatOz (http://www.japan-tool.com/) or Iida sites are highly recommended. Most at Hida are very good, too, some of them excellent. My best jointers are C&W (30" long) and Mosaku (about half as long).

For someone who hasn't used them before, I'd recommend getting one or two HNT Gordon's first to get the feel of thick blades and pulling (you can push or pull most planes, btw). His try plane is first class.

Pam

[jack christensen]

142538

I still like my ECE for some things but it can't touch the LV jointer. The LV mouth is easy to adjust, it's easy to hold, it has a great heft, and with two blades, I can use a normal 45 bevel for straight grain or a 55 for tricky grain.
Athough I like the woodies I seldom use them, but that's just my preference.

[David Gendron]

Thank you Pam, that is great info!

[Pam Niedermayer]

Thanks, David, but please keep in mind that there are a lot of excellent smiths who don't have a US presence and a lot of excellent dead smiths whose planes are outstanding. So when one comes across a very expensive plane, you may want to investigate rather than dismiss it as not having been on my list of excellent contemporaries.

Pam

[Martin Cash]

There is some great advice here.
I hate to be contrary, but my own preference is for an iron jack plane and a wooden jointer.
My jack is a very good Marples iron number 5. It is in every respect the same as a Stanley SweetHart except that it came with a significantly thicker blade. I often find that I use it on wood that is rough but doesn't need a scrub plane. A wooden bodied plane gets sole damage on rough timber I have found.
My preferred Jointer is a Stanley 33. It is an old transitional and a little longer than a number 8, only not as heavy. Mine uses a Hock blade and it really does sing. An absolute pleasure to use.
As others have said, you might need to try out some different styles of plane to find what is most pleasing to your planing needs and technique.
Happy shavings
MC

[Steve Dallas]

I am about to buy two new planes - a jack and a jointer - to flatten and square rough lumber. My question is, would you choose:

Wood? Bevel-Down Iron? Bevel-Up Iron?

Thanks for your input

Steve

Bevel down woodie.

Didn't seem to slow down Goddard, Townsend, Affleck, Phyfe, the Dominys, Michael Allison, Gilbert Ash, Joseph Barry, Deming and Bulkley, Benjamin Frothingham, Johnathan Gostelow, Pottier and Stymus, Alexander Roux, William Savery, John and Thomas Seymour, Spooner and Fits, et al.

Wood on wood is where it's at.

[bridger berdel]

1) Wooden planes are almost always substantially lighter in weight than their equivalent length metal brothers.


not always. this plane:
http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v378/116/101/1390201139/n1390201139_124797_2795.jpg


is heavier than any metal plane I've ever had in my hands. I made it that way ;^)

[David Keller NC]

Yep, there are exceptions - rosewood planes being a good example. But the common beech planes from the 19th century that one often finds at flea markets are usually about 3 lbs. lighter than an equivalent length metal jointer.