Gramercy Bow Saw

[Dale Osowski]

Has anyone used or know if the Gramercy 12" bow saw and it's 1/8" blade will work well in 8/4 stock? It wouldn't be used for tight turns, but for gentle curves.

[Joel Moskowitz]

2" thick material is pushing it even with the 10 tpi blades. I've done it but a slightly coarser blade, a little wider would be really nice.

[Robert Rozaieski]

I have to agree with Joel. I don't have his saw, but I do use his blades in my antique 12" saw. It can be done. I just did some 12/4 poplar with Joel's 10 point blades. However, I really would have liked to have a longer saw (24") and slightly wider blades with fewer TPI for stock that thick. A longer saw is available from several retailers, but I've yet to see a longer, wider blade with fewer than 9-10 TPI (are you listening Joel ;)). I could make one myself, if I didn't have about a million other things to do :rolleyes:.

[Dale Osowski]

Thanks guy's. I would use the saw for gentle curves on legs for cabinet stands, similar to Krenov's. I'd really like to do this by hand rather that going with a bandsaw. Are there other saws you would recommend or do you think I could pull this off with a 1/8" 10 tpi Gramercy? There may be times 10/4 or 12/4 would be used.

[David Gendron]

I did use mine on 8/4 beech wood to shape the frame of my new fret saw and it work ok, a little slow but but worked! I think that the best way(IMO) to shape legs is draw knife and spoke shave, It is quickly done!

[Robert Rozaieski]

Thanks guy's. I would use the saw for gentle curves on legs for cabinet stands, similar to Krenov's. I'd really like to do this by hand rather that going with a bandsaw. Are there other saws you would recommend or do you think I could pull this off with a 1/8" 10 tpi Gramercy? There may be times 10/4 or 12/4 would be used.

I don't know of any other turning saws with a coarser tooth pitch than what Joel offers. Most commercially available saws that I've seen are around the 9-10 tooth range and don't come as sharp as the Grammercy blades. The Grammercy will handle your stock, it will just be slow going because of the high tooth count. Use the 10 tooth blade and don't force it or you will throw your cut off square. Let the saw do the work ;).

[Dale Osowski]

Thanks for the replies guy's. I think I'll give it a try.

[David Gendron]

Hand maybe Joel will think of making a skip tooth blade for that saw! I think it would be a good addition! You wont go wrong wwith that tool, it is a great saw! One thing I did, is to rough out the pins so they grab a litle better so, the blade don't turn on me as easily wile working!

[Chuck Nickerson]

I guess the question to Joel is: have you sold enough of the 12" turning saws that TFWW will make a 24" saw/kit with 1/4" wide blades?

[David Gendron]

Joel, are you there?;)

[Joel Moskowitz]

I guess the question to Joel is: have you sold enough of the 12" turning saws that TFWW will make a 24" saw/kit with 1/4" wide blades?

We tested 1/4" wide 12" blades and the blades wandered. This problem is solvable but time is always an issue. IDeally what I Want to do is make 1/4" x 12" blades in rip and xcut for the current bowsaw and 3/8" or 1/2" blades for 18" and 24" saws. It will happen I just don't know when.

Also we might end up just offering a hand filed blade - it will cost a good deal more than the current blade set but will outperform everything.

[Bill Houghton]

I've done plenty of curves by cross-cutting the stock shy of the layout line, every inch or so or closer together for shallow cuts, tough grain, or tighter curves; knocking out the little chunks between the crosscuts with a chisel and hammer (pay attention to grain direction in relation to the curve); then getting to the line with drawknife, chisel, and spokeshave, with maybe a card scraper thrown in for fine tuning the work.

This is most important for inside curves. Outside curves can be done fairly easily with a drawknife and spokeshave alone, because you're almost always cutting "down grain" on an outside curve.

If you don't already own a drawknife and at least one spokeshave, you're missing some of the more joyous tools in hand work. Watching wood disappear with these tools is really reallllly cool.

Hint on drawknife use: you can hog off wood or smooth it with a drawknife, depending on your technique. Hogging off works best with short, choppy strokes, almost in a martial arts mode (in fact, I sometimes do a little karate-esque "huh!" when I'm doing this); it's similar, but with more control, to removing chips from a log with an axe. Smoothing is done more meditatively, with the blade skewed a bit. Practice first; I remember when I started being surprised at how intuitive a tool it is, but, like all hand tools, it does require getting to know it. I suspect that, if I ever learned to use a drawknife to its full capabilities, I wouldn't need any of my spokeshaves - since I do love those little shaves, I'd best be careful not to get better with the drawknife.

[David Gendron]

Ask Joel And You Will Receive! I would love to be close to your shop! Maybe I woud even try to work for you!!

[Jeff Skory]

I'm following along with Robert Rozaieski's (Logan Cabinet Shoppe) tutorial on building a Porringer Tea Table using only hand tools. So in addition to buying a Ray Illes mortising chisel (very nice!) from Joel, I also recently bought the Gramercy 12" bowsaw.

I was a bit disappointed at how much work it was cutting curves with it, but I'm also going through 3" of cherry. Having just read Joel's comment that 2" is pushing it I guess I was expecting too much. It did work, it was just very very slow.

[David Gendron]

Don't forget to wax the blade often during your cutting! It does make a difference!

[Andrew Gibson]

Don't forget to wax the blade often during your cutting! It does make a difference!

Good tip, I will remember this in the comming days!

[Eric Brown]

I found that when cutting tight curves I could improve the cutting if I used the old trick the bandsaw guys use, stone the back edge round a little.

Eric

[Dale Osowski]

I feel a bit dirty. I'm an avid hand tool user but while in Woodcraft yesterday I noticed this little 10" bandsaw, the price was right so I picked it up. I'm really surprised it cuts thick Ash & Walnut so well. A bow saw is still in the near future but I have a few rush jobs to get done and the little bandsaw seems the way to go. I'm happy to say I will be using spoke shaves to clean up the cuts.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h235/Timberwerks/IMG_2637.jpg

[Bill Houghton]

I feel a bit dirty. I'm an avid hand tool user but while in Woodcraft yesterday I noticed this little 10" bandsaw, the price was right so I picked it up.

First, there's a school of thought that gives bandsaws an exemption, because they're so darned useful - that school of thought refers to them as "neanderbuddies."

Second, technological change has happened. Unless you make the conscious choice to eschew that change for whatever reason*, you use various electron-burning devices every day. As my son says, the issue is deciding which standards to maintain. Using power tools for every danged thing is at one end of the continuum; using hand tools for every danged thing at the other. Realistically, most of us are somewhere between the two ends, and our placement can change over time, as we find power solutions that work so well we decide to adopt them or, conversely, as our skills increase with hand tools in ways that allow us to give up power tools. There's also the time tradeoffs.

I love the sound and feel of a brace driving an auger bit through a chunk of wood, and hope I can enjoy it some more some time. But my list of got-to-dos is very long, and the aesthetic value of holes is generally not a major element in my work. So the Makita cordless or various corded drills, and the drill press, get a lot of work. But when it comes to smoothing or fine-tuning, nothing beats a good plane.

*Of course, if you decide to give up power tools altogether, we may never hear from you again until you figure out how to visit the Internet without electrons...wood-burning computers?

[Bob Easton]

I'm following along with Robert Rozaieski's (Logan Cabinet Shoppe) tutorial on building a Porringer Tea Table using only hand tools. So in addition to buying a Ray Illes mortising chisel (very nice!) from Joel, I also recently bought the Gramercy 12" bowsaw.

I was a bit disappointed at how much work it was cutting curves with it, but I'm also going through 3" of cherry. Having just read Joel's comment that 2" is pushing it I guess I was expecting too much. It did work, it was just very very slow.

This thread popped up just as I was starting a project (http://www.bob-easton.com/blog/?p=1036) that needs curves cut in some fairly thick stock. I too have t self-made turning saw after the Gramercy pattern and have exactly the same blades that we're discussing.

Seeing the flywheel of a treadle lathe (http://www.bob-easton.com/blog/?p=1053) is approaching 3 inches thick and really works best when reasonably round, I chickened out and use the band saw. However, I'm at the next stage, cutting some decorative ogee shapes in the tops of the uprights. They are douglas fir that's a full 3 inches thick. I'm using that Gramercy 10tpi 1/8" blade and it's getting the job done nicely. It needs patience, and lots of time. A couple of Snickers bars help too.

It's easy to imagine it being a slow and tedious job, but not impossible, in Cherry.

I'll definitely be watching for Joel to bring us the 1/4 inch blades.

[Andrew Gibson]

Just started a project today. A rocker out of Ash that requires quite a few curved pieces. I have a little 9" bandsaw that is useless for the most part. so I spent an hour this afternoon and get the 2 front legs of the rocker roughed out with my 12 bow saw and a 10tpi blade. worked well and was able to remove my pencil line without much issue. The legs have an "S" curve. Oh heck I'll upload a pic...
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0610.jpghttp://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0604.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/handyandy3459/100_0603.jpg

[jerry nazard]

First, there's a school of thought that gives bandsaws an exemption, because they're so darned useful - that school of thought refers to them as "neanderbuddies."

Second, technological change has happened. Unless you make the conscious choice to eschew that change for whatever reason*, you use various electron-burning devices every day. As my son says, the issue is deciding which standards to maintain. Using power tools for every danged thing is at one end of the continuum; using hand tools for every danged thing at the other. Realistically, most of us are somewhere between the two ends, and our placement can change over time, as we find power solutions that work so well we decide to adopt them or, conversely, as our skills increase with hand tools in ways that allow us to give up power tools. There's also the time tradeoffs.

I love the sound and feel of a brace driving an auger bit through a chunk of wood, and hope I can enjoy it some more some time. But my list of got-to-dos is very long, and the aesthetic value of holes is generally not a major element in my work. So the Makita cordless or various corded drills, and the drill press, get a lot of work. But when it comes to smoothing or fine-tuning, nothing beats a good plane.

*Of course, if you decide to give up power tools altogether, we may never hear from you again until you figure out how to visit the Internet without electrons...wood-burning computers?

Bill,

Good post.

Since taking up Neanderthal ways, the only powered tools to take a complete hit in my shop are sanders: they hang over in their corner with cords and hoses neatly bundled up. I don't miss 'um a bit, and the fit and finish on all my projects is much better, to boot!

-Jerry