Upgrading ROS, might be time to try Festool

[Mike Reinholtz]

After building a dining room table from Black Walnut that I am very proud of, I'm finding my 5" makita ROS is dying a slow death and needs replacement. Now that I know I like the hobby and it's quickly growing I would like to upgrade. I've noticed quite a few companies have right angle machines and wondered how they compare to the smaller ones. Bosch, porter cable, etc all have them and some get pretty nice reviews. Would one of these be overkill and cause more trouble by removing too much stock? I have 2 belt sanders I really like, so I have the aggressive removal department covered. I was able to borrow a neighbor's Bosch 6" (I think it's the 3727DEVS) and was really impressed, but it's not the right angle model.

Any opinions are welcome, although please don't recommend anything that is ridiculously expensive, I would like to keep it under $250.

Thanks again,

Mike

[Nick Sorenson]

After building a dining room table from Black Walnut that I am very proud of, I'm finding my 5" makita ROS is dying a slow death and needs replacement. Now that I know I like the hobby and it's quickly growing I would like to upgrade. I've noticed quite a few companies have right angle machines and wondered how they compare to the smaller ones. Bosch, porter cable, etc all have them and some get pretty nice reviews. Would one of these be overkill and cause more trouble by removing too much stock? I have 2 belt sanders I really like, so I have the aggressive removal department covered. I was able to borrow a neighbor's Bosch 6" (I think it's the 3727DEVS) and was really impressed, but it's not the right angle model.

Any opinions are welcome, although please don't recommend anything that is ridiculously expensive, I would like to keep it under $250.

Thanks again,

Mike

I don't know if you have a compressor but Dynabrade Silver Supreme is one I just purchased. They had them on sale at $135 a while back. I got one with a Vacuum connection and 6 hole pad so that added to the cost but great sander. I have really enjoyed using it. I got the one with the soft pad. That gives me a lot of control to get edges etc. I couldn't be more impressed. It's really smooth to hold compared to my old electric and no name import DAs. Dynabrade is still made in USA. That's also impressive. On automotive finishing forums (those guys live on DAs) they recommend National Detroit and Hutchins highly. Those guys know DAs. I bought a Dynabrade simply because I got a good price on one. But I've not tried the others. I do know I like the Dyna much better than my Electric. It is pretty good on not using a ton of air either. It seems like my 5HP/60Gallon (5 HP rated not peak I think) US General from Harbor freight only comes on every minute or two which is not bad for running a ROS. Anyways, that's what I'd do. Even used would probably be ok. I also tried the new 3M RAS and was not nearly as impressed. It's about as good as the import ROS in my opinion. The Dyna is quieter, smoother, and doesn't freeze your hand like the imports did. After sanding my hand still feels good. No tingling or blisters. It's a great product and has a Lifetime Warantee.

[Richard Dragin]

I would like to keep it under $250.

Mike

Well that pretty much rules out Festool.

[Philip Johnson]

I will throw in a vote for the festool sanders. It is one of the few festools I own or plan on buying. Sure I felt bad spending that much on a few tools but I soon got over it after using it. It is pretty close to dustless sanding and makes sanding more enjoyable if that is possible. I believe most woodworking stores let you demo them and have a 30 day trial, its at least worth a good look or try one out.

Phil

[Mike Reinholtz]

The big draw to the Festool is that 30 day trial, like most I guess I'm struggling with spending that much on a sander. I am going to be working close to a Rockler tomorrow, maybe it's time to take one home and check it out.

[John Harden]

My advice is to try them out at Rockler. I have one of their small pad sanders and it is first rate. In fact, it's probably my favorite sander when teamed with my Fein Turbo II.

I tried both of the Festool random orbit sanders at my local Rockler and did not like the feel of them at all. Specificially, they did not want to track smoothly unless you applied absolutely no downward pressure. Even slight pressure caused them to balk and begin vibrating. Very cumbersome. Tried them again at a WW show with the same result.

That's just my opinion. I've read where others own and really like them. That's why I suggest you try it out at the store.

Regards,

John

[Ray Newman]

I have the Fe$tool track saw and shop vacuum. Both are quality machines.

I have only handled the ROS, never operated one, so I can't speak as to how well it would fit my hand and feel while sanding.

My question about the Festool sander(s) is: are there any other supplier of the abrasive pads/sanding discs?

The DC hole pattern is unique to Festool and I haven't seen any non-OEM suppliers/sources for sanding discs/pads witht his DC hole cofiguration.

[John Harden]

Another point to consider is the amount of suction your vac provides. I have an older Fein TII without the variable speed option. It sucks so hard that, to my surprise it slows my Makita RAS down to a crawl. This is not a problem with the Fein RAS or with the little Festool pad sander I like so much, but you'll want to consider this for whatever you purchase.

Regards,

John

[John Lanciani]

I use a 1250DVS- (6" right angle dual mode sander) for 60 - 120 grits and then switch to the 3727DVS (6" inline motor) for 150 - 400 grits. I've used the equivalent Festools, and while they are maybe very slightly smoother than the Bosch, I firmly believe that the Bosch sanders are a better value. For reference, both of the above Bosch sanders are made in Switzerland and both have excellent dust collection when used with an appropriate vacuum.


John

[Greg Portland]

are there any other supplier of the abrasive pads/sanding discsYou can use the Mirka mesh pads (since they have hundreds of holes). However, the Festool abrasives are quite nice for the $$$ so there is no reason to avoid them (IMO) except cross-compatibility.


I have an older Fein TII without the variable speed option. It sucks so hard that, to my surprise it slows my Makita RAS down to a crawl.On the Festool forum, I've seen people add a Wye to the Fein's inlet with 1 branch going to the sander hose and the other branch covered by a plug. A hole is drilled into the plug that optimizes the amount of suction on the sander (bigger hole = less suction).

A good shop vac is crucial (Fein, Festool, etc.) for the Festool sanders & paper. If you are not using a shop vac then I would just stick with a cheaper option... you will not see the performance benefits.

[Greg Portland]

they did not want to track smoothly unless you applied absolutely no downward pressure. Even slight pressure caused them to balk and begin vibrating.Agreed, especially on the rotex sanders. I found that the 6" sanders were more stable. However, I prefer the need for a light touch... this really keeps fatigue down on long sanding sessions because you're not gripping or pushing the sander down and around the wood.

[Frank Martin]

I use a 1250DVS- (6" right angle dual mode sander) for 60 - 120 grits and then switch to the 3727DVS (6" inline motor) for 150 - 400 grits. I've used the equivalent Festools, and while they are maybe very slightly smoother than the Bosch, I firmly believe that the Bosch sanders are a better value. For reference, both of the above Bosch sanders are made in Switzerland and both have excellent dust collection when used with an appropriate vacuum.


John


I have the exact same experience with the exact same sanders. Unfortunately, I sold the Bosch sanders to "upgrade" to the Festool versions. To me the difference was almost unoticeable. Had I not sold the Bosch sanders already, I would have returned the Festools and keep Bosch sanders. This does not mean I don't like my Rotex and the ETS 150, but the improvement over Bosch is very minimal while the price differece is huge, almost twice for Festool.

[Montgomery Scott]

That's good info for me. I've owned two Bosch VS sanders (currently the 3725) and I like the sander, but had assumed the Festool was a far superior sander based on the hype from Festool users. I guess I'll stick with Bosch sanders.

[Van Huskey]

That's good info for me. I've owned two Bosch VS sanders (currently the 3725) and I like the sander, but had assumed the Festool was a far superior sander based on the hype from Festool users. I guess I'll stick with Bosch sanders.

The Bosch sanders are closer than most people think. One of the big issues I find is people not using Festool are much less likely to be using a good vac with them, when they try Festool they are almost always using a Festool vac. The Bosch line used with a good vac like the Bosch, Fein or Festool is aguably equal to the Festool line and the Rotex is actually bested by the Makita 6040. If you prefer all your tools to be one color or just really like the systemic approach the Festool line is the way to go. But with the Makita dual mode, the Bosch 3727 and a Fein Vac you have a set of sanders that truely are right with the Festools and have over $300 in your pocket.

One note on Festool abrasives, they are actually quite competatively priced with other high quality discs and shouldn't be a negative to the Festool line, the only issue I could see is if you live without a Festool dealer near you and are the type (like me) that is always running out of a grit and can't wait for internet delivery.

[Rick Cabot]

Mike
I believe Klingspor carries 5" and 6" sanding disks for the Festool. I have a number of the Festool sanders; expensive yes but IMHO well worth the money for dustless sanding and ease of use and construction.
Regards,
Rick

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

I own a couple Dynabrades including one with a 3/16" orbit and one with a 3/32" orbit. I have a Bosch orbital that is really quite good as well as a Rockwell 1/2 sheet and a Rockwell Speed Block. No matter which you buy, do some research on abrasives. Apparently, some companies are not as fussy as others when sorting the size of the grit. As little as a single random oversize grain can cause swirl marks. I'm just really getting acquainted with this so I can't recommend one brand over another.
I just finished a project in very hard and difficult cherry and was unable to sand with any of my machines without leaving swirl marks. Though I am familiar with card scrapers and have used them along with sandpaper, I never final surfaced with a card scraper prior to stain. I was able to achieve wonderful results with the help of some sharpening advice and a bit of confidence passed on by a couple of our fellow Creekers. I scraped over a surface that was sanded with 150 grit finishing sander. The area I scraped compared to the sanded area reminded me of looking through the portion of a fogged window you wiped clear. The grain became so visible I was amazed. The samples I stained relatively dark were absolutely scratch free.
By the way, I am now sure the only reason sand paper was invented was to save the labor associated with scraping. It requires effort, acquired skills and the willingness to callous your thumbs to a bit of heat. If the surface you are scraping is large, it can also, like hand planing, be aerobic exercise.
Buy a good sander or two but spend some time learning to scrape.
fmr

[Brice Burrell]

.....My question about the Festool sander(s) is: are there any other supplier of the abrasive pads/sanding discs?

The DC hole pattern is unique to Festool and I haven't seen any non-OEM suppliers/sources for sanding discs/pads witht his DC hole cofiguration.

Mirka Abranet, Indasa Rhynogrip and Klingspor have discs that will fit Festool sanders. I like the Rhynogrip for a good all around sandpaper. That said, Festool's specialty abrasives are top notch and well worth the money.

[Van Huskey]

By the way, I am now sure the only reason sand paper was invented was to save the labor associated with scraping. It requires effort, acquired skills and the willingness to callous your thumbs to a bit of heat. If the surface you are scraping is large, it can also, like hand planing, be aerobic exercise.
Buy a good sander or two but spend some time learning to scrape.
fmr


I have become a scraping convert, I use the Veritas scraping holder and it has significantly reduced the fatigue.

[Chris Parks]

Has anyone bought and used a Festool air sander and care to comment.