I want to make a cross-cut sled, but...

[Harold Burrell]

I can't.

I mean, I haven't been able to, up to this point, make one that cuts square. I've read a BUNCH of ways to do it, but...nothing.

My attempts are always out of square.

Is there a relatively simple way to accomplish this?

(I know, I know...I am such a failure...*sob*)

[glenn bradley]

There, there . . . I fail at something every day. If I didn't I guess I wouldn't be trying ;-)

IMHO if you did not make your fence adjustable, remove it and replace it with one that is or start over. Once you have an adjustable fence, its pretty straight forward.



Build your base reasonably square.
Set your runners in the miter slots with double stick tape on the top; I set pennies in the slots to raise the runners up to where the tape can grip the base.
Register your base against your fence and lower it onto the runners; I then screw mine on from below in the holes I pre-drilled for this purpose . . . pre-drilled the runners, not the base.
Attach the fixed fence (the one that is near the back of the saw).
Attach the adjustable fence (the one you place your material against).
Raise the blade and cut through the fixed fence, base and stop a couple inches from the adjusteable fence.
Adjust the front fence roughly square to the cut with a builders or combo-square and tighten in position.
Perform 5 cut method (http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/five_cut_method_swf.htm)to finish alignment. I keep one end bolt snug, loosen the other 3 and pivot the fence to adjust, snug 3 loose bolts and do 5 cut again.
Once aligned, tighten fence good and snug.
Enjoy sled.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=50581

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=53569

[Kent A Bathurst]

....Is there a relatively simple way to accomplish this?...

No.

There's an answer to your specific question.:D

But - as to your follow-up question - there are straight-forward methods to follow to get you off the ledge and back in the shop. Glenn, being more touchy-feely than I am, gave you the road home. Which I didn't have when I made my first workable sled, which was actually my 4th sled - not that I was counting or anything - If I look around, I could find any number of jigs + shelves + such that started life as sleds 1 thru 3.

Hence the First Law of Sledo-dynamics: "Sleds can neither be created nor destroyed."

As my signature says: "Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more......"

[Tom Veatch]

Harold, the only thing I'd add to Glenn's treatise is to be sure the runners have as little slop as possible, and at his "5-cut" step, what I do is:


Attach the rear fence with a single fastener at one extreme end of the fence.
Attach a stop (double stick tape) to the base at the other end of the fence.
Clamp the fence to the stop.
Use the 5-cut method to check the squareness of the fence.
Insert shims between the block and the fence.
Repeat Steps 4 and 5 until the 5-cut method gives acceptable results.
Finish fastening the fence to the base before removing the clamp.
Remove the block.
Enjoy square crosscuts.

[Harold Burrell]

Thanks all!

Another question...Is it ok to not only screw on but to also glue on the runners?

[glenn bradley]

I just left the double stick tape in place and drove in screws. Been fine since January of 2007 on one sled and not much less for a couple others but, I did need to adjust it twice (a couple thou) in that time due to weather changes. Someone on here has a brilliant adjustable solution featuring a machine screw mechanism but, as seldom as it is required, you could live without it. . . it is really cool though.

[Alan Schwabacher]

I like to glue down the fence as close to square as I can get it with a carpenters square, then test for square and (usually) attach a fence face with tape shims behind it to make it as square as possible.

[Joe Vincent]

There, there . . . I fail at something every day. If I didn't I guess I wouldn't be trying ;-)

IMHO if you did not make your fence adjustable, remove it and replace it with one that is or start over. Once you have an adjustable fence, its pretty straight forward.



Build your base reasonably square.
Set your runners in the miter slots with double stick tape on the top; I set pennies in the slots to raise the runners up to where the tape can grip the base.
Register your base against your fence and lower it onto the runners; I then screw mine on from below in the holes I pre-drilled for this purpose . . . pre-drilled the runners, not the base.
Attach the fixed fence (the one that is near the back of the saw).
Attach the adjustable fence (the one you place your material against).
Raise the blade and cut through the fixed fence, base and stop a couple inches from the adjusteable fence.
Adjust the front fence roughly square to the cut with a builders or combo-square and tighten in position.
Perform 5 cut method (http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/five_cut_method_swf.htm)to finish alignment. I keep one end bolt snug, loosen the other 3 and pivot the fence to adjust, snug 3 loose bolts and do 5 cut again.
Once aligned, tighten fence good and snug.
Enjoy sled.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=50581

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=53569

This is pretty much what I did, based on instructions in the Incra Miter Sliders package, but I also (not sure if it was in their instructions or a tip in a woodworking magazine), after your step 6, double stick taped a 6" or so wide board in the path of the blade near the adjustable fence and cut through that board, then removed one half and used the just-cut end to register my square against and other side of square against adjustable fence to set its location. Hope that helps.

[dan sherman]

As others have said, make the fence adjustable. Also the fence needs to be dead strait, and by dead strait I mean less that .001" deviation strait. The 5 cut method is the best thing out there, for getting the alignment correct.

I just recently made this one, it took about 90 minutes to make the sled and align it.
http://www.dans-hobbies.com/2010/01/13/giant-crosscut-sled/

[Chip Lindley]

First things First! Confirm that the blade is parallel to the miter slots of your TS. Confirm that both miter slots are parallel to each other.

When this is TRUE, persue the good sled-building technique present here.

[Bill Huber]

Thanks all!

Another question...Is it ok to not only screw on but to also glue on the runners?

I used the method of both Glenn and Tom, the difference was I put a block on both ends of the rear fence and used Quick clamps to hold the rear fence on.
After I had it set I removed the clamps and put glue on it and then clamped it back on the stops and screwed it down, just like having the glue there.

[Joseph Tarantino]

check out the "nicki stuff" portion Tips and Techniques section of the forum @ ridgid.com. nicki is a frequent contributor and his approaches to anyhting are simple, easy to follow and invariably "dead on ba!!s accurate". i'd provide a link, but i'm not sure if that's allowed.

[Glen Butler]

Thanks all!

Another question...Is it ok to not only screw on but to also glue on the runners?
My runners are only glued. I use hickory because it is really hard for the money. Don't use maple . . . too soft.

1. Wax your table saw.
2. Plane the material to fit the slot somewhat snug.
3. Cut the runners so they are almost the full depth of the slot.
4. Put the runners in the slots. Shim them with a thin strip of wood so they sit just proud of the table surface.
5. Spread thick cyanoacrylate on the runners.
6. Using the fence as a stop lower the sled down onto the runners.
7. Have plenty of weight nearby or lay down for a bit on your table saw sled. Give it a couple minutes and stare at the ceiling.
8. Remove sled. It will be a little sticky, and will require some force. Don't worry the runners aren't ever coming off.
9. Clean up excess glue with an old chisel. Any glue on the cast iron will peel right up.
10. Sand the runners with a bar sander til they run with the smoothness you desire. Waxing the runners also really helps.

[Glen Butler]

Someone on here has a brilliant adjustable solution featuring a machine screw mechanism but, as seldom as it is required, you could live without it. . . it is really cool though.
Are you talking about mine? Yeah, you could live with out it, it simply takes all the guess work out of adjusting the fence and makes it all about math. If OP cares I will go over the steps.

[Jason Yeager]

I am not the OP but I would love to hear the steps involved in your adjustable fence.

Thanks

[Paul Murphy]

Thanks all!

Another question...Is it ok to not only screw on but to also glue on the runners?

I sawed runners from dry quartersawn oak and handplaned to fit each slot. I then put full length ~1/32" shims in the slots, runners on top of shims, glue on the runners, and lowered the sled onto the runners. Weighted the sled and after an hour screwed the runners to the sled. I had to use a shoulder plane to trim the runners in a couple spots, but that was easy to see due to marks left by the slots where the fit was a little tight. I used the 5 cut method (thanks Glenn!), drilled for permanent screws, and glued the fence.

I have to say getting the crosscut jig right is worth the time it takes. I use it on almost every project.

[Harold Burrell]

Are you talking about mine? Yeah, you could live with out it, it simply takes all the guess work out of adjusting the fence and makes it all about math. If OP cares I will go over the steps.

Yes. Please.

[Cary Falk]

I fought my sled for years. I would get it square and then when I screwed it down it would be out ever so slightly. It was big and heavy also. I ended up getting the Incra miter express to go with my 1000se and am much happier.

[Fred Voorhees]

One thing that I might add, and I haven't noticed is anyone mentioning the use of MDF as a platform for the sled. MDF is stable and solid. I have had a crosscut sled for years and it has never waivered in its settings. I love it.

[glenn bradley]

One thing that I might add, and I haven't noticed is anyone mentioning the use of MDF as a platform for the sled. MDF is stable and solid. I have had a crosscut sled for years and it has never waivered in its settings. I love it.

My reason for not using MDF in a word; heavy. I do use it for many other things ;-)

[Harold Burrell]

One thing that I might add, and I haven't noticed is anyone mentioning the use of MDF as a platform for the sled. MDF is stable and solid. I have had a crosscut sled for years and it has never waivered in its settings. I love it.

1/2" or 3/4"?

[Kyle Iwamoto]

As a builder of 89 degree sleds, I second the option to BUY the INCRA sled. I tried making sleds (4). One very ice looking wall ornament. Front and back guides as well as a saw blade guard. Plexiglass cover for the blade guard too. Cuts 89 degrees all day. Lots of frustration trying to get the sled to cut right. Took a week. Yes my fence is straight, and my miter slots are parallel.

Maybe I'll try again with the sled..... Lots of frustration. Did I mention that?

[Paul Murphy]

Kyle, use the 5 cut method with a pivot at one end, and only after achieving square would you glue the fence. It really is worth the effort.

This might help (thanks to glenn bradley for the link):
http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/five_cut_method_swf.htm

[Lee Schierer]

I recently made one and it worked out very well. I needed to trim a glued up panel that was 30" wide on my TS. My existing miter gauges wouldn't do the job accurately enough because I couldn't back off far enough to get the bar into the slot.

1. First start with a well tuned saw, including the fence alignment to the miter slot.

2. I purchased a piece of 2' x 4' x 3/8" plywood from the local borg.

3. I fitted a maple runner to my miter gauge slot that was 36" long. I drilled four countersunk screw holes in the runner from the bottom side so they could be used later to attach the runner to the sled. I placed double sided tape on the top of the runner and place a penny under the runner at each point where the double sided tape was located.

3. I lowered my blade completely and adjusted my fence so it was about 1/8" from the right side of the blade. Then I place the plywood on my saw table so that one edge was tight to the fence. I pressed down on the spots for the double sided tape to stick the runner to the bottom of the plywood. I carefully removed the plywood and runner from the saw and put the screws through the pre-drilled holes to anchor the plywood in place.

4. I raise the blade about 1" above the table and then put the runner back in the miter slot and trimmed off the end of the plywood. I now had a runner perfectly aligned with the cut line.

5. Then I took a piece of oak 2 x 2 that was 4' long and attached one end to the back edge of my sled at a point near the end closest to the blade about 1/2" in from the cut edge. I aligned the piece of oak to the cut edge with my carpenters square and clamped the free end which over hangs the left side of my table in place with a c-clamp.

6. With the backer board clamped in place, I did a five cut test with a scrap piece of plywood about 18" square. I was very lucky on my first try to be withing .010 on the width of the cut off on the first attempt. One slight clamp adjustment and another five cut test had me within .001, so I called that good and put several more screws up through the plywood into my oak backer board.

7. When I trimmed both ends of my glue up, keeping the same edge against the fence for both cuts, my length at the edges differed by so little I couldn't measure it and the ends were perfectly perpendicular to the edges according to my square and the Beall Tilt box angle gauge.

It isn't fancy, but it is effective.http://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=135623&d=1261229408

[Fred Voorhees]

1/2" or 3/4"?

3/4" - I have to admit, the thing works like a charm and isn't prone to warping. I first made one out of plywood.....big mistake. The thing twisted like a pretzel. This current crosscut sled has been with me for years and still cutting dead nuts square.

[Tony Shea]

I made a panel cutting sled somewhat similar to the one above. The difference is that mine is on the other side of the blade, fence is on the back end of the sled, and the base is made of 3/4" mdf. After learning the 5 cut method I have it set up completely square. I chose the right side of the blade as I have more table on that side to support the sled. I put the fence on the back side of the sled as I find this position easier to hold the panel against the fence while making the cut. As your pushing the panel through the blade your are also pushing it against the fence thus keeping the panel square. As long as you have an outfeed table set up to within a 1/16" of the table saw then the backside fence works great. I chose MDF due to the stability of the material. I've made flat panel jigs out of plywood and have had terrible luck with keeping them flat. But I live in Maine where humidity in the summer is terrible at times and winters a dry.

[Harold Burrell]

Wow. I really appreciate everyone's help here.

Now...if it will just warm up some...

[Glen Butler]

Sorry I intended to go over the micro adjusters in more detail than is in the thread below, but time has been against me. Let me just refer you to this thread as it goes over the micro adjusters. If you have questions let me know.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=127651&highlight=micro+adjusters

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Kyle, use the 5 cut method with a pivot at one end, and only after achieving square would you glue the fence. It really is worth the effort.


If the sled is cutting 89 degrees, you don't need the 5 cut method to tell you that. It LOOKS not square. If you want front and back guides, the sled cannot pivot, you need to adjust both runners to shift the sled. It's a LOT of frustration. The adjustable sleds are easy to make. You just need to make 2 to take the place of a sled with front and back guides.

[glenn bradley]

Wow. I really appreciate everyone's help here.

Now...if it will just warm up some...

I get a kick out of how we can smell someone's hesitation and swarm like sharks with reasons for them to begin :D:D:D