Crosscutting

[paul cottingham]

So, I am having a hell of a time getting my tablesaw to make a square crosscut. I am using an Osbourne eb3, which I really like, and I get inconsistent cuts. Am I better off making a crosscut sled? Using a chop saw? Using a mitre box? I have done everything I can think of to square the eb3 in my mitre slot, but i am still getting crappy crosscuts, which I then have to fix with a shooting board. I love using my planes, but it is getting a little frustrating. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

[Cary Falk]

I don't understand how you can love your EB3 if you can't get accurate 90 degree cuts. I had the Delta version of the gauge and hated it. I know a lot of people have the EB3 and love it. I looked at the instructions and it doesn't look that hard to adjust. If you can't get a 90 degree cut out of it then there must be something wrong with it. I would either talk to General International and try to find the problem or get rid of it. You can build a sled. I always had a hard time trying to dial one in to the accuracy I wanted. I now have a Incra 1000se and the Miter Express and couldn't be happier. Good luck.

[Gary Pennington]

>>>So, I am having a hell of a time getting my tablesaw to make a square crosscut. <<<<

Just experienced similar frustration with some of my equipment that I had spent hours squaring with a beautiful newly acquired (thru an estate sale) rosewood and brass inlaid 6" square. Well, turns out that my square was actually not, more of a true 88.8 degrees than a 90. Created some beautiful firewood til I figured out what was wrong. Then went thru all of my measuring tools in detail and found other discrepancies.

Gary

[scott spencer]

There are a few factors in play here, and it sounds like you really should take a look at all of them. It'd be really helpful if you could put some more detailed descriptors to your results in addition to "inconsistent" and "crappy". Are the edges ragged, or are the angles off?

A crosscut sled can be a great tool but there's no guarantees that it'll cure the ills you're experiencing. The EB-3 is an excellent gauge IMO, and is fully adjustable to be accurate, though it's possible there's a problem. If the root cause of your problem is a lousy blade, a crosscut sled won't help. Is the throat insert stiff and flush? Is the miter slot parallel to the blade? Is the EB-3 holding settings and adjusted snug in the slot?

[Chris Parks]

It is one thing to have the mitre gauge square to the blade but another to have the track it moves in parallel to the blade.

[Tony Shea]

Is the EB-3 holding settings and adjusted snug in the slot?


This is the first place I'd look. That's if your miter slot is parallel to your blade. The fit between the miter bar of the gauge inside the miter slot is often over looked but is one of the most imortant factors in getting a perfect crosscut. It needs to be snug but not too snug to prevent it sliding back and forth. Needs zero side play.

[Bill Huber]

First things first.....

If you have an extension wing on that side of the saw make sure it is flat with the table, all the way across it. If it is a little high on the outside this will make setting the EB3 harder and you will not get accurate cuts. (Don't ask how I know)

Check the miter slot to the blade and make sure it is correct. If this is not correct then the wood will want to pull or be pushed as it is cut.

Now adjust the EB3 so that the bar is tight in the slot but will still slide smoothly.

A real quick check of the EB3 is with piece of 3/4 x 3/4 scrap with a screw or nail in the end. Raise the blade up and place the strip of wood against the miter gauge at one side of the blade so the nail or screw just touches the blade.

Now slide the gauge to the other side of the blade without moving the scrap of wood, the nail or screw should touch the blade in the same way. This will get it really close to 90 degrees.

To really set it I use a 16 inch Alvin triangle, the longer the better. Just hold it against the EB3 and the teeth of the blade, they should touch on both sides of the blades. You want to pull the EB3 back as far as you can and still touch the far end of the blade.

I have found that using the EB3 is very easy and accurate. The way I use it is to loosen the screw that holds the angle move the fence to where I want it and then push up on the plunger and lock it down, do not mess with it just push up the plunger and lock it.

[glenn bradley]

There seems to be a common thread developing here . . . before we blame the gauge let's make sure the saw is correctly aligned. A 'correct' gauge or sled cannot compensate for an improperly adjusted saw.

Assuming the saw is aligned within a couple thou for the key points: blade to miter at 90* and blade to miter at 45*, table top and extensions flat within reason, well waxed to reduce friction and all that . . . how long is the board you are crosscutting? The reason I ask this question is that if all else is correct "at rest", there may just bee too much leverage on the gauge to allow it to control the material. If that is the case, a two runner sled would solve your problem in almost any reasonable situation. That is; if the material exceeds the ability of the gauge (or sled for that matter) your cutting path will be uncontrolled.

BTW, I have a couple of real nice gauges and assorted sleds. They all perform very well within their designed capabilities.

[paul cottingham]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies.

The problem is that the cuts are inconsistent. When I tighten the adjuster so that there is no slop, the gauge wont slide in the slot.

Frustrating.

[Neil Brooks]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies.

The problem is that the cuts are inconsistent. When I tighten the adjuster so that there is no slop, the gauge wont slide in the slot.

Frustrating.

Ordinarily, there is a half-way point between "slop" and "gauge won't slide in the slot."

If you truly can't find that point, then you may want to apply a coat or two of paste wax to your miter bar and slot, or ... if needed ... possibly even UHMW tape.

But ... "inconsistent" is still a squishy term. It would truly be easier to get valid feedback on this issue were you able to be far more specific about what's happening, and what you've checked, measured, and tried, in an effort to correct it.

[Stephen Edwards]

This may not be the "correct" way of dealing with your situation but this does work for me:

I've developed the habit of keeping pressure of the miter bar of the gauge to one side of the of the miter slot on the table saw as I'm pushing the work piece through the saw blade.

But, since learning to properly tune the TS and then having built a simple but accurate crosscut sled, I rarely pick up the miter gauge anymore for 90 degree crosscuts.

[Myk Rian]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies.

The problem is that the cuts are inconsistent. When I tighten the adjuster so that there is no slop, the gauge wont slide in the slot.

Frustrating.
I've taken a mill bastard file to clean up the miter slots. Just enough to get any burrs off.

[paul cottingham]

Ordinarily, there is a half-way point between "slop" and "gauge won't slide in the slot."

If you truly can't find that point, then you may want to apply a coat or two of paste wax to your miter bar and slot, or ... if needed ... possibly even UHMW tape.

But ... "inconsistent" is still a squishy term. It would truly be easier to get valid feedback on this issue were you able to be far more specific about what's happening, and what you've checked, measured, and tried, in an effort to correct it.

Sorry. By inconsistent, I mean that one cut is perfectly square, the next cut is out by at least a 16th from one end to the other. I have fiddled and fiddled with the bar that slides in the slot, adjusting both of the adjusters.

My saw blade is perpendicular to the mitre gauge bar, both front and back. of the blade.

Does that help?

[Myk Rian]

Does the arbor move in and out? I got rid of a direct drive C-man saw because of that.

[brian c miller]

What it your precut routine?

Depending on how long the cross cut is something as small as a chip from the previous cut can throw off your cut. Clean the gauge EVERY time.


Also, are you measuring 90* from the same side everytime? You may be 90* at one cornet and 89* at the other (if the rip cut was tapered).

Like other have said make sure the slot is // to the blade & that the board is sliding freely (waxed table).

What do you end up with after the 5 cut?

[Neil Brooks]

Paul,

I don't know your particular miter gauge, but ... you could look at using UHMW tape in the thicker part of the slot -- both to take up the 'slack,' and to facilitate easy movement of the miter gauge....

The other possibility is to peen the miter gauge bar where it's narrow. This is done with a punch and a hammer (if you don't know). You just 'tap a small dent' in the TOP of the miter gauge bar. It widens the bar stock ever so slightly.

I agree with the poster who advocated "cleaning up" the miter slot, though.

Even better would be a dial indicator or gauge block that would let you truly pinpoint the problem. THAT, AND ... a set of good calipers to verify that your miter gauge bar IS within spec (I wouldn't modify my miter slot if the bar on the miter gauge was the real problem).

It surely does sound like that slack fit might be the only problem, but I really would make sure that all the other elements of TS tuning are spot on, before I did anything else.

[glenn bradley]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies.

The problem is that the cuts are inconsistent. When I tighten the adjuster so that there is no slop, the gauge wont slide in the slot.

Frustrating.

Even though there are 3 specific points that your gauge allows adjustment of the miter bar, it seems that would be adequate for most short cross cuts. There is the possibility that the bar is shifting as the forward most "adjusted" section of the bar passes out of the miter slot if you are traveling that far during the process.

Something that comes to mind that could set you to chasing your tail for a solution; is your miter slot reasonably consistent along its length? Mine are so-so. My Incra has 4 adjustment spots which means that for most cuts, at least three are in the slot at any given time. This seems to provide very acceptable results.

I use an Incra for the router table too but in this case, even 4 adjustment spots were not enough due to the way I use the gauge on certain procedures. I fixed this by adjusting the four locations and then shimming the rear of the bar (where my issue was) with metal tape; problem solved.

On the miter gauges for other tools I shim the whole length of the bar for continuous consistency through the motion of the cut. The adjustments on your gauge (and mine) by design create points of contact versus adjustment along the full length of the bar. In an inconsistent miter slot this is quite like shooting a too-small bullet down a too-large barrel; its touching, its not, its touching, its not.

[Greg Hines, MD]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you could have already built a sled in the time it takes to read this thread. If you are unhappy with your results, that would be my choice. Leave the fancy miter gauge for miter cuts, and crosscuts to a sled.

Doc

[Neil Brooks]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you could have already built a sled in the time it takes to read this thread. If you are unhappy with your results, that would be my choice. Leave the fancy miter gauge for miter cuts, and crosscuts to a sled.

Doc

Very valid point .... but ... if the problem lies in the miter slots on the table saw, then ... IMHO ... he should address that [pick one: first OR anyway].

[keith micinski]

Building a crosscut sled wont solve the problem. If he was having one issue then we could probably say it was the saw, the blade, the mitre slot, the gauge or something else. The fact that he is getting inconsistent results almost guarantees it is user error combined with improperly tuned equipment. I would bet money the problem is in the mitre slot adjustment. Nothing is more accurate then the EB-3 or more consistent, when it is adjusted properly. The only problem that I have with the EB-3 is the mitre bar adjustment. It only has three points to adjust the width and you lose the far point out the backside of the table when you get half way through the blade. Also they tend to be finicky and it is hard to get all three spots to slide smoothly through length of the mitre slot so you find your self having to leave the tiniest amount of clearance in the mitre bar or really take some time and fine tune your mitre slot. The key to using any kind of a mitre gauge is to make sure you hold in it the same spot every time you slide it. The other key is also to make sure you apply a little pressure to one side of the gauge every time so if there is any slop it is always tight to the same side. I also agree with one of the previous posters mention about making sure you have accurate squares and measuring devices and that they all agree with each other. I spent a lot of time with what I thought was a really nice rosewood square, but it actually turned out to be a really nice rosewood "out of square". I also like to make an actual cut and then check it with my square. If it is out any I adjust my mitre gauge and make another cut and keep adjusting until the " actual cut" cut is square. I don't care what mitre gauge says at this point. Do to flex and any other variable that there may be, your mitre gauge may actually need to be 88.7 to get a 90 degree cut. Inconsistency is almost surely your technique. I was able to make perfect 45's with an out of tune 1960 craftsman saw with worn out bearings, blades and an EB-3 that was tuned properly and using they same proper technique every time.

[Dan Lee]

I've had 2 premium gauges from 2 different mfgs. Each of them had a slightly convex face about 1/16" accross the length.
They are gone I love my homade CC sleds :)