Table saw vs. CMS vs. Bandsaw for a beginner

[Mark Amato]

Although the question has been asked here repeatedly in one form or another, I'm currently at a bit of an impasse with where I want to go with my woodworking as I progress beyond extremely green woodworker to simply green woodworker.

I woodworked in high school shop class and I was pretty handy when given access to the whole run of tools that a "production" shop might have. Now that I'm a touch older and have some spare money, I wanted to get back into the hobby.

All of the tools I've acquired thus far are intended to be dual purpose in that I can use them for doing home fix up tasks when it comes time to purchase my own home. My shop space is a corner of the basement back at my childhood home, so that's another driving factor in my purchases. Finally, cost is always a concern as I have seemed to pick the most expensive hobbies known to man between hockey, golf, and skiing. At the same time, I am well aware of the old adage of "buy cheap, buy twice" and I have looked to avoid that wherever possible.

Right now, my "shop" consists of:

- A large bench with t-tracks for which I have made various hold down jigs
- A Ridgid circular saw with a SGS-100 Eurekazone tracksaw attachment
- An incredibly poor hand-me-down Black and Decker Jigsaw that won't hold square
- A corded and cordless drill along with a couple cheap sets of drill bits and a decent set of DeWalt hex drill ends
- A Ryobi ROS I used to refinish a few goalie masks
- A hand-me-down Craftsman 1/4" collet, 1.5hp fixed base router
- A Craftsman 2hp router with plunge base and fixed base
- A dovetail jig
- A pocket hole jig

My intent thus far has been to build a bench and a router table and then use those to start working on larger furniture pieces. I would like to make a sofa table for my sister's upcoming birthday in a few months as a first project, which should be fairly simple as it is mostly sheet goods and short on intricacy that might be beyond my skill level.

I finished the bench as well as a simple set of cubbyhole cabinets for mounting beneath the bench and I learned fairly quickly how I can accomplish some simple tasks. I did simple piece repetition work with the tracksaw, plowed dadoes and rabbets with the router, and figured out how to use 2x4 framing stock (the cheap, $5 KD pine at Home Depot aren't the worst in the world so long as you take the time to dig through the entire pile and find some pieces that aren't incredibly skewed). It was a good first project and although there are clearly some issues with form on some of the early joints, the later parts of the project wouldn't look out of place in a living room. A recent-college-graduate's living room, mind you, but we all started somewhere.

I have been building a router table and although the construction has gone fairly well for the sheet goods, some of the operations required for framing, shelving, and drawers have led me to the conclusion that I am either in need of another tool, or a better way to use my current tool set. The construction is basically a MDF top with formica laminate much like many others here, and I will use a milled aluminum angle bar for the basis of the split fence. The cabinet is to be made mostly of 2x2 and 2x4 for support, along with sheet stock that floats in the frame members on the outside and backside. Additionally, the drawers will be either the router-bit style or the traditionally fully-enclosed, 4 side style using the dovetail jig I picked up on sale. I intend to try a few loose-tenon joints on the table on some of the upper frame members just to get an appreciation for how they work, and some of the other joinery might be pocket-screw if it's a quick way to do it.

Where I am having a problem is trying to set up quick, repeatable straight and miter cuts for the framing stock and for the drawers. My solution thus far has been to use a piece of 3/4" sacrificial particleboard as an underlayment on top of my bench, set up a sort of fence using 1.5" laminate made of 2 x 3/4" MDF atop that, and clamping down the SGS100 at a right angle to the fence along with a shim for spacing. I then slide the workpiece with a marking to the SGS cut line, plow across once to start the cut, then flip over to finish the cut since my saw bottoms out at about 1.375" of depth when atop the track. For sheet pieces, I use a single 3/4" MDF and plow across into the underlayment. This is a fairly long process and the squareness of cuts isn't particularly good, and I think it could be a lot easier for framing pieces and smaller pieces that don't require the run length of the SGS. The depth of the cut and the requirement that I flip the piece over to finish the cut isn't helping much, either.

In an ideal world, I'd buy a planer next so I could save on wood costs and do edge-jointing with the router table, but it's become fairly clear to me that I need a way to make better quality cuts with surfaced lumber in the first place.

The obvious choices are to use a table saw with a miter attachment, a miter saw, or a bandsaw.

A table saw is something that would also allow for easily repeatable cuts and sheet breakdown abilities (something I already have in the SGS100), but would also take up the most space in the shop. The cost for a halfway decent item is on par with the band saw, and I'm also somewhat concerned over the safety of the table saw.

The miter saw is something that I don't see here too often, but a decent model seems like a good idea. It's small and can be transported easily. On the other hand, unless I step up to some of the more expensive sliding units (or try and get one of the cheapo Craftsman sliders to hold true, which seems like an exercise in futility), that's more or less the only function it can perform. On the other-other hand, I could get a reasonable unit for not a whole lot of money, and it fits my immediate need.

The band saw is interesting in that I can find a decent 14" model at around the same price as a table saw. It seems to be able to do flat miters fairly well, although the cut cleanliness doesn't seem to be as good as it would be with a table saw or miter saw. I'd still have no way to do consistent bevel cuts if I wanted to work that into my toolbox of joints. I would be able to do some light resaw on smaller pieces, and being able to throw out the jigsaw for some cutting tasks would be nice. I remember that I made some pretty detailed dovetails using a bandsaw and a rasp in the past, so I'd already have that skill in the bag. Finally, the space claim is less than the table saw.

Perhaps there's a better way to accomplish what I am aiming to do at less cost and let me spend more money on wood. I'm open to pretty much anything at this point.

[Mike Heidrick]

A good used table saw (have 220?) and a good miter gauge is where I would start next.

[scott spencer]

Mark - Everyone's different, but the TS is number 1 in my shop. My CMS collects dust unless I'm crosscutting very long molding, and my BS cuts curves and resaws. My TS can rip, bevel, miter, dado, groove, resaw, edge joint, and crosscut accurately, and the finish is good enough to go from saw to glue up with no other help, and needs very little sanding to be ready for a finish. In contrast, the cut edge from a BS is typically pretty ragged and usually needs quite a bit of help prior to be ready for glue up or a finish, but it can rip and crosscut in addition to curves.

[Van Huskey]

Lots of ways to go but a good table saw would always be my first large machine purchase.

[Joe Shinall]

Ditto on the TS. That was my first big purchase and I can't even fathom doing the stuff I have done without it. I have other equipment that is just as big and expensive as my TS (planer & jointer for instance). But I still walk into my shop and rub my hand along my saw every day. :D

[Myk Rian]

When I stocked my shop, replacing the C-man TS was first. The bandsaw was second.
A bandsaw can be used for miters if you use a shooting board with a plane.

[Mark Amato]

I never really thought about edge glue-ups as I figured I'd probably use a layer of good plywood or veneer, especially since I wouldn't have a planer or jointer. If you can get a glue-worthy edge off of a 10" table saw blade, that kind of changes things. I'm guessing it'd probably be something like a good 40T, thick kerf rip blade or something.

The worry about the table saw then becomes a combination of safety, where it goes in the shop, and how much a good miter gauge is going to run me. I'd be lying if I didn't say that how I get it there is also an issue, given that I do not have access to a truck and I drive a Prius. Safety wise, I've never been completely comfortable with the table saw as it just seems like between an exposed blade, kickback, and some operations requiring the removal of the guard, it's asking for trouble. I guess if I never cut dadoes or make sure I get a model with a riving knife, that kind of solves itself.

An aside: I should just buy a truck so I don't have to break down 4x8' sheet before it goes in the car anyway.

I'm guessing that the options that are portable are probably not really furniture-quality machines. I've looked at the R4511 since it has a pretty neat lift but I'm not sold on the granite table. I can't find the older 3650 with that lift, and I can't really find a saw that seems to have the lift system engineered quite as well. I could always get an aftermarket one, but that's more cost I don't have. Is there a reasonable small saw that would fit the bill? Otherwise, I guess I can go Craigslist and find a saw that kind of meets my needs and resell when I have the money for an upgrade.

[Bill Huber]

I started out with an 8", 54 year old Craftsman and use it for a long time. The reason I upgraded was I could not find a good dado blade for it.

I guess what I am saying is there are a lot of older table saws out there that can be bought at a very good price.

To answer your question I would say the table saw is the one to get, you can do so much with it.

You have to respect the tool and not fear it. You can cut your finger off with a band saw, skill saw or a router but you have to learn to respect the tool.

It is kind of like the old saying, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people", The same goes for a table saw, Table saw do not cut fingers off people cut fingers off.

So go find a good used table saw and learn to use it the correct way.

[David Prince]

Think of the table saw as the sun in your solar system called a shop. To me, everything revolves around it.

A good contractor saw will meet your needs. It is lighter, somewhat mobile, and sturdy enough for safety. (Those benchtop saws scare the &*!?^ out of me) The larger the saw, the safer it feels!

The miter gauge that comes with it will be accurate enough for your needs as long as you set it up square and keep it that way. Not necessary to buy an aftermarket one at this point in your game.

[Tony Shea]

No question about it, get a table saw. It will do more than you ever dreamed possible. Given the right blade and jig it can even do things like dovetails, box joints, tenons, dado's, miters, any crosscut, glue line rips, cove molding, etc. The list is as endless as your imagination. As others have stated, it's the only tool in my shop that I rub my hands on every time I enter.

[Stephen Edwards]

Here's another vote for the Table Saw as your next purchase. Bill Huber gave you the right advice, IMHO. Learn to respect it, not fear it. With any machine in your shop a good rule of thumb, or finger:D, is to remind yourself every time that you turn the machine on: "I need to pay attention and be careful because this machine can hurt me." If you'll pay attention and develop good work habits, you greatly decrease your risk of injury.

A good contractor saw can give you years of good service. With the right jigs and a simple but good crosscut sled you can perform many useful tasks.

Some of the nicest work that I've ever seen has been done in shops that have a contractor TS. A cabinet saw is certainly nice to have, but it ain't a necessity.

Good Luck with your decisions and happy woodworking.

[Mark Woodmark]

I you have not got it yet I will help. A good table saw with a good rip fence and a accurate easy to set miter gauge is the hub of the woodshop

[Norman Pyles]

Another vote for a good table saw and fence. I hardly ever use my mitre saw in the shop.

[Steven Green]

I started a long time ago with a Craftsman Contractors saw. Wore it out and moved on but it still was the most used tool in my shop.

[Cary Falk]

I vote for a table saw. I use mine on every project. I have a nice bandsaw but it get only occasional use. My miter saw gets practically no use what so ever. It is mainly for house trim work and maybe rough length cuts. It would probably get more use if it wasn't a POS. There are people out there that would get rid of their table saw before their bandsaw though.

[Chris Parks]

There are people out there that would get rid of their table saw before their bandsaw though.

I would be one. If I only could have the one the bandsaw wins every time. A sharp hand plane will prep an edge better than a TS.

[Jerome Hanby]

Let me start by saying I'm not really a bandsaw guy. I do bandsaw stuff on one, and use my table saw for anything I can. But, if I could only get one piece of equipment for the foreseeable future, I think you have to go with the bandsaw. With a decent saw and the correct setup, you can do just about anything with one. If you can add a small jointer then things get interesting.

If you are going to have a little money along the way to buy tools, then haunt CL and grab the deals as they come along.

Unless you are looking at one of the big sliders, I'd wait for a heck of a deal on the miter saw. You never know when someone will just give you one of those.

Given the situation where I had enough cash to get what I needed in a fairly short time frame, I'd go TS, Jointer, Planer, MS, BS

Or you could haunt CL for a good deal on a Shopsmith MK V with a jointer and BS. Couple that with a decent table saw and a lunch box planer and you're in business pretty quick. You can replace the Shopsmith's functions with better standalone tools as they become available and keep the Mk V as a good drill press, small bandsaw (nice to keep from swapping blades on your standalone) and the best sanding station available.

[Jim German]

I'm also a rather new woodworker, who just bought a house a few years ago, and I must say that my compound miter saw has gotten alot more use than the table saw. The table saw is certainly more useful for woodworking, but for general home stuff, I find the miter saw to be more useful.

That being said, with a good miter gauge pretty much anything you can do with a miter saw you can do with a table saw, whereas the reverse isn't true since you can't rip a piece of wood on a miter saw. Miter saws are also much more portable, and take up much less room since you've got a space issue.

Something more important though is the price issue. A real nice 12" compound miter saw is only $300, where as a $300 table saw is going to get replaced if you become a serious woodworker.

[Jay Jeffery]

Oh, no question about it, if your space is small and a table saw is not practical, get a miter saw. Table saws take a lot of room to use effectively. If you are starting with rough sawn boards and making them into unique pieces of fine craftsmanship, you can't get by without a very good table saw, complete with outfeed table.

But my guess is you buy your wood at Home Depot, Lowes, or some other large store already milled. They have a panel saw to break down your sheet goods. It's something like 4 free cuts and 25 cents per cut after that. You may need to trim them with a skill saw to clean up the edges. Take your time with your measurements and you can still be plenty accurate.

True, you really need a table saw to rip effectively, but the vast majority of cuts a BORG wood buyer makes are cross cuts. Designing your pieces around a shop without ripping capabilities will be a handicap. But being able to cross cut effectively and efficiently on a table saw takes a lot of space. A miter saw is happy against a wall and requires very little dedicated space. Build a stand for it that makes the table of the miter saw the same height as your workbench. You have storage underneath. You will enjoy your projects much more if you have effective and efficient cross cutting ability and the room to assemble your projects.

Perhaps you can get a small table saw good for an occasional rip, but small table saws are not well suited for crosscutting long boards. Let's face it, cross cutting long boards is the most common woodworking processes a homeowner will do. You don't want to take the time to haul out the table saw, dig out the cross cut sled, balance the long board, make the cut and put it all away every time you need a board cut. With a miter saw, you push the junk on the workbench to the side, set the board down, make the cut and go.

A bandsaw is not what you need for the projects you listed and very few homeowner type tasks call for one. Sure it cuts wood, but most cuts require a secondary process like planing or sanding.

No question about it, a miter saw will make your projects much more enjoyable.

All this would also be true for a radial arm saw.

[Geoff Barry]

I've been fiddling around with building furniture on a very basic level for a couple of years. MY advice is this:

For cutoffs or miters, you really only *need* a 10" cms. I got a Delta 10" at costco a few years back for $70. Would I like a 12" slider? sure, once or twice it would have been nice, but for basic mitering of anything 2x6 or smaller, it serves just fine. Buy a used one, or buy an inexpensive one - while "buy cheap, buy twice" has a nice ring, but there's nothing wrong with starting off inexpensively until yo know how you prefer to work. Once you know how you use your tools, and what it is you really need, you can then buy something pricey . . .

For table saws, craigslist is your friend. Borrow a truck, or see if the seller can deliver (once you've actually seen the saw, that is). I bought a craftsman 10" contractor saw for $100 at a garage sale. Cleaned it up, put a decent blade on it, and it cuts fine. Avoid bench saws, and frankly, avoid new saws unless its a killer deal - at this stage, you dn't need to spend the money. Use the splitter and blade guard if you can (form the habit early), but just always think about your cuts first, use push sticks and featherboards, and don't stand in the line of fire :) Table saws are great if you want to rip a bunch of boards to a consistent width, or coscu large panels.

I still don't have a bandsaw, though I've been keeping an eye on craigslist. It would come in handy for cutting arches and curves more reliably than using a jigsaw, and you will want one eventually. But based on your description of what you want to do, nothing leaps out that says "bandsaw NOW!". Not that some folks don't go bandsaw only, but I'd build more conventionally for awhile and then see how you feel about the whole "bandsaw versus tablesaw" debate.

Frankly, in Colorado, one could get a CMS on craigslist for about $100 or so (a SCMS woul be closer to $3-400), a decent contractor tablesaw for $2-300, and a 14" bandsaw for around $3-350.

[Neal Clayton]

and as i've posted several times in these threads, there's no need to buy a new cabinet saw for 3000 dollars plus, when there are such great deals on used ones out there...like these from your local craigslist...

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/tls/1599016100.html

http://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/tls/1597373498.html

there are problably others, those are the first two that caught my eye.

[Don Morris]

It's good you have a lot of fear for a TS. It deserves that fear. But try cutting something 22" wide on a bandsaw or a CMS. I can use my Lie Nielsen #7 jointer handplane to put a beautiful edge on a piece of wood, but I really don't want to be a Neanderthal all the time. I like to be a little more productive and predictable. And when it comes to down right accuracy, my table saw sleds allow dead-on accuracy. I have one for cross cutting (up to 20"). Try that on a bandsaw or CMS. I also have a dead-on TS sled for 45 degree miter joints and tapers. And when I get through with the cut, I don't have to look at the finish, my blade leaves no bandsaw trademarks. I use the bandsaw, for those operations like resawing, or getting to within 1/8" on a curve before I flush trim, etc. The TS is the most used piece of machinery in a wood shop for good reasons. Absolutely necessary...no...absolutley helpful...absolutely yes.

[Matthew Hills]

I didn't read anything that made me think you need a bandsaw right now.
A miter saw could be useful, although you can make do with a circular saw crosscut jig (http://www.lowes.ca/howto/article_template_howto.aspx?id=31&model=6) if you just want to cut to length (clamp down your own stops to get repeatable cuts).
http://images.lowes.com/general/c/crosscutuse.jpg

The miter saw is really good if you're doing miters on long stock (got any baseboard projects on the horizon?). For short stuff, I use my table saw with a miter sled.

Ripping drawer pieces to consistent widths is what persuaded me to get a table saw...

Oh, and if you need another money pit hobby, don't forget to start shopping for photography gear to show us our woodworking projects :-)

Matt

[Jay Jeffery]

Oh, and if you need another money pit hobby, don't forget to start shopping for photography gear to show us our woodworking projects :-)

Matt

'Aint that the truth!
Any time I've got some money, I have to choose between tools or a new camera gear.

[Don Jarvie]

My advice would be search Clist for a C-man contractors saw. There's plently of them and alot of them are under 100 bucks. This will give you a decent saw to get you started.

It also sounds like the space you have isn't permanent so until you have a space you may not want to invest in a huge saw at this time.

[Billy Trinh]

The tracksaw you have covers lots of operation of a tablesaw. IMO a bandsaw would complement it for cutting depth. To make the tracksaw work efficiently as a ts replacement, you need to make (or buy) a cutting table and bridge for consistent and quick cutting setup and squareness. I can't say a tablesaw is better or not because i don't own one but That's what I'm using in my 1 car garage setup(tracksaw& DIY table/bridge using t tracks). No tablesaw and I'm looking out for a bandsaw deal. Tracksaw takes too much setup without a good cutting table

[Rob Hough]

Well if space is an issue, as is safety... What about going the Festool route? The TS75, MFT and a couple of other tools (dc unit, jigsaw, router, etc) coupled with a nice CMS would probably go a long ways to keeping your shop space more functional for you ...and it pretty much all of that would fit in your car! :)

[Archer Yates]

Most hobbyist will all tell you a table saw. In James Krenov, "The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking", he writes the first tool for your shop should be a good bandsaw. I have a complete workshop , and I can foresee the day when I will have to become a minimalist and then I plan to make do with a good bandsaw. I would strongly encourage you to get a copy of "The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking", by James Krenov. It is available inexpensively from a number of the book sellers on the web. The bandsaw doesn't exclude the table saw. A well adjusted bandsaw can rip boards safely. I have taken classes from two master craftsman this pst year and both used a bandsaw a lot more than most hobbyist.
My vote is for a good big heavy bandsaw. But buy the book and read it before you go out on your buying trip.

[Stephen Edwards]

......I would strongly encourage you to get a copy of "The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking", by James Krenov........But buy the book and read it before you go out on your buying trip.

That's sound advice! I would also encourage you to get a copy of Krenov's book, "A Cabinetmaker's Notebook", too. This book isn't so much a "how to" book as it is a philosophy book for woodworkers. I realize that we're all different in our approach to woodworking. For me, these two books are the most cherished in my collection of WW books.

I still wouldn't want to be without my TS.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Mark - first and foremost, welcome back to (from?) the dark side.

Slightly contrarian view here - from a guy who's first purchase was, and again would be, a TS and a DC (don't forget the DC with the TS). A good TS. In short order behind that was CMS, bandsaw, then jointer-planer-DP-mortiser as a gang.

If you had the top + split fence in play on your router table (leaving the other components on the back burner for a while), plus a bandsaw and a good CMS with a solid infeed/measuring system, you can get done virtually everything you have in your gunsights so far - except thickness planing. Other threads here have sung the praises of the EZ-set for managing plywood, so you are set there.

I have personal experience in the early days with the frustrations of square, plumb, and repeatable cuts, just to get the simplest stuff done, and I understand exactly where you are coming from on that issue, hence the CMS and infeed. [I'm going to the foxhole while you queue the "TS and sled/miter gauge" theme music. Sorry - I know it works fine - but no, thanks - not for me - too much multi-use stuff like framing studs, fence parts, wine racks, etc. as well as stiles & rails.] FWIW - I am not a fan of the SCMS - too much $$ to get a solid one - as you kinda hinted at - and those extra $$ should go into the TS eventually IMO.

The TS is definitely the centerpiece and game-changer. But - it just needs to get there, it doesn't have to get there first.

So - (1) finish the "action end" of the router table, (2) CMS with solid infeed system, (3) bandsaw (4) figure out where you are after you've gotten comfortable with all that, then plan the next move.

Oh - AFAIK, there is no such thing as a planer, but there is a thing called "planer and DC".

[Terry Welty]

I use my table saw probably 30 times for every time I use my band saw and probably 20 time for each time I use my MS... each has it's use and each project has it's own requirement, but that's how it shakes out for me...

[Brad Pearce]

TS is the clear winner for accurate parallel cuts and glue-ready joints with it properly tuned. With a good fence and miter gauge a TS can trump a CMS. Now a bandsaw is a different tool, does exceedingly well for a number of specialized operations that I would not dare try with a TS or CMS. It depends on where you are and how soon you want to extend your woodworking skills. To start I would get a TS, second get a BS and for convenience get a CMS.

[Alan Schwabacher]

It sounds like for the mostly sheetgoods projects you envision, the tablesaw would do the most to speed up the work and improve accuracy. If you are not getting clean cuts with a circular saw and guide, the first thing I would do is buy a new blade for that saw. I have found the $15 Freud 40 tooth 7 1/4" blades work pretty well. You can spend more for better blades, but these are an enormous improvement over construction blades for sheet goods. I'd do this even if planning to get a tablesaw next.

A bandsaw would be better if you wanted to work mostly with handtools and solid wood. It is much more compact, and would increase the kinds of work you could do in certain directions that may not be important to you now.

[Mark Amato]

Thank you for the suggestions. Given the lack of space and the fact that I am indeed buying S4S lumber, I ultimately decided to build a variant of the crosscutting jig that was posted above with scrap MDF, 23/32 oak ply, and hardboard. I made it in such a way that it can be mounted to the dog holes in my bench using a couple quickly removable 3/4" pegs, and I made a swiveling material support that also picks up a dog hole so I can crosscut long boards. If I was smarter, I would have aligned it with the measuring tape on the T-tracks, but I can use that fairly easily to generate a cut line then drag the board into the jig to cut. Maybe the next one I make will align the cut line with the tape!

It works really, really well with the EZ Guide base mounted, and I can cut 2x12s on it if I wanted, so I'm pretty pleased with myself right now. Now I can spend the money I would have spent on a decent miter saw on wood, and when the time comes to graduate to a table saw, I still have the miter jig for doing straight cuts. Plus, I have to say, making it and testing for square and concluding that yes, I can keep a very large box square was extremely satisfying.

Thank you all for the suggestions.