Card scraper on nasty wood

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Though this thread relates to finishing, I believe it is better posted here since the real question involves scraping and who has more experience with card scrapers than the Neanderthal guys?
I'm finishing a piece of cherry that has nasty curly grain. Standing on one end of the piece you see curl that disappears when viewed from the other end and vise versa. It's to die for but is giving me a real headache.
I have to stain, but blotching is not my issue, sanding is the problem. I can't sand beyond 150 or the lacquer based stain I am using won't bite. I want to use this particular stain because it works well to avoid the problems normally associated with coloring cherry. 120 and 150 grit paper in the Dynabrade finishing sander leave swirls that mute the finish worse than any blotching. I have had good luck on large sample pieces using a card scraper. The finish is swirl free and the stain bites well enough to give me the depth of color I need. I've never finished with a card scraper. I've always relied on 220 or 320 grit paper to dress areas where the grain is against me. I can't do that this time. I have tested on large samples but I don't have any scraps with the same grain pattern. I will eventually test on the bottom side of the table before messing up a very expensive top. Here's my question. Have any of you used scrapers to final finish curly cherry without relying on sandpaper at all? What should I expect in the curly spots where I will be scraping against the grain?
Thanks,
fmr

[Larry Marshall]

I've read your description and question a couple times and I confess that I'm not sure what the issue is for you. You describe a knowledge of scraper use, knowledge of stain use and an understanding that scrapers are a useful tool in dealing with complex grain patterns.

Sounds like you've got the answers but just want someone to say "yes, you're right!" I'll do that as the best tool for dealing with curly anything is a sharp scraper. Personally, I'd be applying a spit coat of shellac before applying the stain but otherwise going directly from scraper to stain is a viable approach.

Cheers --- Larry

[Richard Niemiec]

Faust: This is exactly what scrapers do well, and when you're done you won't need sandpaper. Each grain "issue" is unique so its hard to say exactly how you should approach this, directionally, I mean, so get yourself a scraper and prepare the burr properly and go to town.

Go to the Lee Valley site and go to the "Veritas Cabinet Scraper" and read the instructions for preparing the blade. Although its nice to have, you don't actually need this tool, just a hand held scraper blade will work but it will get hot; LV sells a holder as well, but that's up to you. It takes some practice, so start on some scrap with some grain first. Good luck. RN

[Terry Beadle]

Just some comments about using the card and setting it up.

You need to experiment with the hook angle you set on the card. If you need a lighter cut then reduce the hook angle to 5 degrees or less. Medium set between 5 and 10 degrees. Thick cut then set for greater than 10, more like 15 to 20 for the most aggressive cut. These settings will give you what you need for matching what you used to expect from sanding with 150 grit or so.

You should not sharpen the card just with a file but go the extra step to stone the edges and faces up to 4000 grit or 6000. This step will give you the best smooth surfaces and best results control.

When you use the card, don't just use it on the burly areas but cover the entire surface. This is because you won't be using sanding paper at all. The 320 would provide a uniform surface but you are not using it. Normally, I would use the card on the burley or tear out areas and then touch up the entire surface after that with 320. Since you don't want a surface as smooth as the 320 grit sandpaper, I would suggest you try a 10 degree hook angle as a starting point.

Another help is the use of asphaltum between lacquer coats to control blotching. This also helps with card smoothed surfaces that are still not uniform.

Good luck and I hope this helps.

[Mike Siemsen]

Faust, Since you are already sanding and the swirls from your Dynabrade are bothering you you could sand with 150 on a cork block with the grain to remove the swirls. Since you are interested in the card scraper sharpen one up, it should produce shavings and not dust if it is working correctly, be sure not to roll too big of a burr for fine work. If you have some scrap or can practice on the underside I would have you try it there first. The problem with a card scraper is you must be very careful to work the whole top and keep it flat rather than concentrate on a trouble spot and dig a hole in that area. While you are experimenting set up a smooth plane (#3 or 4 size) extremely sharp, moisten the wood (damp not wet) with water or mineral spirits and plane very thin shavings. Good luck!
Mike

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Terry,
Thanks for the education on hook angle. I've never turned any angle other than about 15 degrees. I will sharpen up a fresh edge and make one with 5 degrees or so and try it.
Larry, you are correct. I have some of the knowledge I need but applying stain to a huge table top with effervescent grain is a task I find a bit daunting. I am looking for someone with more scraper experience to tell me they have had a similar experience and scraping worked well. The grain in this wood is kind of like a wave. It goes up and down about every inch. On either side of the crest the scraper is going against the grain.
Mike, hand sanding after vibrate was my original plan. I sanded 120 - 150 - 180 with the DB then hand sanded with a rubber block with 150. The test pieces looked good until I stained them. I had not removed all the swirl marks even though I thought I had sanded well enough. As far as hand planing, my experience level with a hand plane is too limited.
I will try Terry's suggestion and experiment with the angle I burnish. Thanks for replying. I'll let you know how it works.
fmr

[Tom Winship]

I have mixed results when I burnish my scraper. Do you buys just move the burnisher parallel to the card or do you also let it "skid" laterally as you move across the face?

[Terry Beadle]

I use a skidding stoke to set the burr.

I also set the card about 1 inch from the edge of the bench and give both flat faces about 15 hard strokes to pack the steel before setting the burr. I also give the edge about 5 skidding strokes at 90 degrees to compact it too.

I don't use a lot of down force to skid the burnisher. Just firm. Test with your finger next to your little finger to see if the burr has developed correctly. That finger is not used as much as the others and is supposed to be more sensitive.

Taige Frid in his dovetailing video barely uses much pressure to set the burr and he uses the back side of a chisel to do it with.