Brushing Lacquer vs sanding sealer

[Mike Lipke]

Anyone care to expound a little on brushing lacquer?
I've used a lot of Myland's sanding sealer for a first, sometimes second coat, and always put something else on top of it.

Is Myland's just a specific type of lacquer, or is it realy much like brushing lacquer? Myland's is $17/pint, brushing lacquer is about $10/quart.

I've seen some beautiful pieces here that were finished with brushing lacquer. I don't know if they were buffed or not, or if it was semigloss, gloss or satin lacquer.

[Dennis Ford]

I have used Deft brushing lacquer but I usually spray it. It is not quite as clear in the can as the more expensive brands but it is difficult to tell the difference once applied and dry. I allways use gloss, it is easy to cut the gloss down to the sheen you want with steel wool.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I use Minwax spray lacquer. I have some brushing lacquer but have yet to use it. Mylands is I believe shellac not lacquer.

[David Christopher]

sanding sealer has drying modifiers to make it easy to sand and finish lacquer dont

[John Keeton]

Mike, I just used the Deft brushing lacquer for the first time and really liked the application. I used the satin, and it has very little sheen. That wouldn't work well for some pieces, but I thought it was a good look on the one I did.

I have not used sanding sealer, but often use shellac - quick and a nice finish that can be topcoated with anything or nothing.

[Thom Sturgill]

Mike, most of my club uses Deft brush on lacquer thinned 3 or 4 to 1 as a sealer. Just slop it on and let it soak in as much as it will. We typically use satin rattle can lacquer, which has more solids than gloss, and finish polish to 12-20,000 to get a high gloss. Personally I buff after sanding to about 2000 and doing a quick hand polish to 8K to look for problem areas.

[Norm Zax]

Mike,
In short:
Primer - a primer has several purposes and is formulated accordingly. One type of primer is a sanding sealer. It was formulated to have two main functions - to penetrate and thus seal any pores, allowing a top coat to appear smoother, and require less coats of this final coat; and to be easily sanded, again, to allow the user to prepare the substrate for the top coat. Some users believe that diluting any paint beyond regular use turns it into a sanding sealer. Indeed, it is somewhat more penetrating but still far from the functionality of the true sealer.
Brush lacquer - this is a general term for paint that was formulated for application for brush (choice of binder and solvents). Most single component paints are of this type (while two component paints and gels are not). In many cases brushability requires thinning the purchased paint as described on the can.
Finally, sealers are usually also brushable but their mode of application is not critical as they are there to be sanded.
Norm
[ps Shellac is often used as a sealer though it is not ideal as a penetrator]

[Mike Lipke]

Deft brush on lacquer thinned 3 or 4 to 1

3-4 parts thinner to 1 part lacquer? That's thinned alright!

[Rob Miller]

Mike, I just used the Deft brushing lacquer for the first time and really liked the application. I used the satin, and it has very little sheen. That wouldn't work well for some pieces, but I thought it was a good look on the one I did.

I have not used sanding sealer, but often use shellac - quick and a nice finish that can be topcoated with anything or nothing.

Hi, John. Are you saying it's okay to seal with shellac and finish with gloss lacquer?

[Rob Miller]

I have used Deft brushing lacquer but I usually spray it. It is not quite as clear in the can as the more expensive brands but it is difficult to tell the difference once applied and dry. I allways use gloss, it is easy to cut the gloss down to the sheen you want with steel wool.

Hi, Dennis,
I just bought a can of this. It states in the application instructions "[t]his product must not be thinned or sprayed." Any idea why they aren't recommending thinning or spraying the product? It doesn't sound like you've had any problems with it.

Thanks,
Rob

[Greg A Jones]

Deft brush on is my favorite for easy, quick finishes. Finishes well with Beale system.

[Rob Miller]

You don't wax over top of a lacquer finish, do you?

[Greg A Jones]

Only with deft. My mentor - an award winning, museum placed turner - taught me that. I never asked him why, or really ever thought about it to be honest with you. He told to me to do it on the first day and I did it. I may be committing heresy but I like the way it looks.

[Rob Miller]

After reading the warning label I'm intimidated. Sounds like some pretty nasty stuff. Do you apply it on the lathe? I suppose a fan to disperse the fumes would be a good idea. I use a respirator any time I'm working in the shop any more so no real problem there.

[Greg A Jones]

Personally, I don't but I've never tried it. It's definitely fumy but doesn't seem to be any worse than many others. I like it. Very quick drying easy to apply. I keep mine in a large plastic Planter's peanut jar with a screw on lid. Cut a portion of the brush handle off and leave it in the container.

[J.D.Redwine]

Hi, Dennis,
I just bought a can of this. It states in the application instructions "[t]his product must not be thinned or sprayed." Any idea why they aren't recommending thinning or spraying the product?

Rob

To comply with the EPA and to not have lacquer banned.

[John Keeton]

Hi, John. Are you saying it's okay to seal with shellac and finish with gloss lacquer?Sorry, Rob. Almost didn't see this. I have had some compatibility issues with shellac and lacquer, so I don't recommend using them together.

[Jerry Rhoads]

Also The manufacturers do not want you to modify their products. It voids going back to them with problems.
One for instance. Zinsser Shellac used to give instructions on making different pound cuts. Someone asked me about changing the cut once, I told them and then told them to looka at the can. (IT WAS NO MONGER THERE). I looked at the latest can I had, yep no longer there, and said DO NOT THIN.
I called Zinsser and talked awhile (a real nice talk). I can't remember the exact quotes. They basically said they do not give instructions, because people may mess it up.
I also asked about their (new at the time) SealCoat. And asked want pound cut are they. He said the Regular Bullseye Shellac is a 3# cut and the SealCoat is a 2# cut. I said you should at least put that on the can, so people would know how to use it, especially those who have been changing it all these years would know what to do. and also that they did not have to make their own 2# cut for a sealer.
He said Hey that's a good idea (about the cut). But I do not know if it ever happened. Far as I know, they are the only company producing pre mixed shellac. But if they have to hide what they are doing, people may start thinking that it is like all the so called TUNG OIL FINISHES. and does not have the real product in it.

I guess If in doubt mic your own


Jerry

[Hayes Rutherford]

Jerry, thanks for posting that. I usually make my own shellac with flakes and Everclear but occasionally buy Zinsser SealCoat. Someone reading the can might think there is just no way you can use it for anything else, or thin it further(which I often do) The SealCoat works well for French polishing, you end up adding a ton of alcohol to 3# cut anyway.

[Prashun Patel]

Mike-
I use a good bit of Deft brushing lacquer as well as the rattle can lacquer. It's very forgiving as a finish. It levels well, dries pretty quickly, and sands fine.

IMHO as a pure sealer, I think shellac is a clearer and better bet. I find it dries marginally harder than the Deft so it sands easy. It also imparts color which can be a positive sometimes. It's also cheaper than Deft.

However, as a FINISH, it's really hard to beat Deft spray for ease. I mean, you can really lay it on thick (within reason) and it levels well. Shellac as a finish is a little more persnickety that way.

I do find - especially on the insides of curved surfaces, the blowback from any kind of spray (at least in my hands) tends to make the finish rough. So, rubbing out (with or without wax) almost always improves the look and feel of the final product.

[Willem Martins]

Hi, Dennis,
I just bought a can of this. It states in the application instructions "[t]his product must not be thinned or sprayed." Any idea why they aren't recommending thinning or spraying the product? It doesn't sound like you've had any problems with it.

Thanks,
Rob

I have been spraying Deft brushing lacquer for years, sometimes straight out of the can, sometimes thinned, it remains my favorite go to finish. Hot weather, cold weather, humid weather, goes on perfect every time and a no hassle easy finish.

The thinning, or spraying warnings I believe is to stay out of trouble with VO2 regulations, old formulation, part of the reason it works so well. I use a mask and two fans to keep air flowing away from me, to the outside.

[robert baccus]

I think I hear confusion here in products/brand names. Deft is a brand and brushing Deft is just laq. with added retarder to allow brush marks to flow out. Hence the no spraying notice--it being thinned twice will tend to run. Laq. and SS are like socks and shoes--use together. SS is a great sealer but also has fillers to fill in pores. A good one sands like chalk--most don't, like shrellac. Many brands changer formulas last year due to EPA regulations in Cal. I had used Behlan's products for years and they went to hell--just like the end sealers did. The same co. sells Mohawk which still makes heavy bodied SS and pro grade laq. and finishes. Buying finishes at Lowe's is like buying deep bowl gouges at HF. SS is very soft and was never meant to be used as a finish. You can get a smooth surface in 1 hour even in Mahogany with 2 coats of this sanded with 220 foam sanding pads on the lathe. Standard laq. has been based on nitro forever but there are many new types that are far superior. I settled on spraying precat. Mohawk laq--It sprays on thicker and 2 coats over SS is fine leaving enough to wet sand and compound to your choice of sheen. Previously I was spraying 10 coats of nitro laq. to get a good coat. Using these techniques it is easy to get a museum finish by lunch. Using lacquer always use retarder to elinate fogging or to make a dry coat smooth down. Indespensible.?? A rattle can of retarder, laq., and SS on the bench top is a lifesaver. Finishes are like everything else---there are consumer brands and pro brands---pro brands always give superior and easy results. Precatalized lacquer produces a very hard surface and keeps crosslinking for weeks to a super hard finish. I've used a lot of shellac in the distant past--makes a bueatiful finish but is stoneage compared to the newer finishes. Your stump.