Peen or Silver Solder ?

[Louis Reed]

A group of us in our woodworking guild are going to make infill planes. One of the members is a machinist and woodworker. We were discussing should we peen or solder. Since many of you have been down this road, I would like some input based on your own experience. We will be making a #4 and shoulder planes. We will be using brass for the sides and steel for the bottoms. For the blade we will use O1 steel rather than A2. Of course when the project is completed I will post pictures of the results.

Louis

[Jon van der Linden]

You might want to consider the screw method. Ron Brese posted a tutorial here:

http://70.169.135.35/showthread.php?t=49503

Karl Holtey used a similar method for his 982 smoother for which you can see a lot of details of his process on his blog here:

http://www.holteyplanes.com/blog/category/no-982-smoothing-plane/

[Jim Koepke]

Just a couple of thoughts.

The peening is usually to make metal fill in voids to lock it into place and would not be subject to cracking like silver solder or braising. It would also not discolor metal due to heat.

The other thought is pictures of the results will be appreciated, but more so will be the pictures of the building process.

jim

[Jonathan McCullough]

That's an interesting question. Peening (or peining) I've seen, but I've never known of a method where you use silver solder to make an infill plane. Is there an internet source for that? Otherwise, silver soldering seems like a very useful technique for little bits and gadgets on planes. I've been thinking of making a rudimentary Stanley #95 or 98/99 pair with some CRS and angle iron. About the only thing I'm worried about is the possibility of warping the metal while getting it hot enough to get the solder to run. Best to machine it afterwards so that if it shifts, your work isn't in vain.

[David Turner]

I remember two articles about soldering infills. The one I can find was in Shop Notes issue number 79. The other article I can't put my hands on right now was in Fine Woodworking and included putting the assembly on a stove burner for pre-heating before soldering. Maybe someone else will come up with the issue date for the magazine for the second plane.

David Turner
Plymouth, Mi

[Al Biggles]

I've peined, soldered, brazed and welding plane bodies (most infill, one Stanley like, shoulder, block, etc) out of mild steel, stainless steel, brass, etc. They all work. My present favorite is dovetails with a very light pein to hold things in place and then 6% silver solder (vs 60% silver braze). The 400ºF soldering heat doesn't cause any warping but flux is really corrosive so use George Wilson's flux removal tips (boil in water with soda followed by baking at 200º).

[george wilson]

If you make an all brass plane,ordinary lead solder will alloy into the brass if you get it red hot. It is nearly impossible to reheat the joint to get it apart,too. It pulls "fingers" out of the 2 brass surfaces when you get it red hot again,and pull the joint apart. It makes a VERY strong joint,with no visible lead(providing that you aren't sloppy about applying too much solder,I suppose). When I've done it,I use the lead solder like silver solder,cutting off little bits,and laying them along the joint.

[Ron Brese]

Since posting this tutorial in 2007 this process has undergone many refinements in regards to the process, machinery and the materials used to assemble planes with this process. To accomplish this process with a decent rate of production and to attain the accuracy necessary to be successful with this type of plane build one really needs the ability to position with repeat accuracy, in fact all the pin positions need to be located very accurately 3 times in order avoid many time consuming tool changes.

It is also a great improvement to use fasteners with a 60 degree included head which is a custom fastener. The 82 degree fasteners will work but not all fasteners of this type meet proper size specs and be careful of cheaply made screws.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to discourage anyone from using this method, I just wanted you to be informed as to what it is required to do this successfully. A milling machine with DRO would be a real plus.

Ron Brese

Brese Plane

[Jerome Hanby]

I Shopnotes (assuming this is the one with the shoulder plane) The sides are dovetailed into the sole and soldiered. The wooden infill (hope that is the correct term) is held in place my brass rods piercing it through the sides, then the rod ends being peened down to form rivets. I'm not sure that all the joints couldn't have been soldiered, teh peening may have been for cosmetic purposes.


I remember two articles about soldering infills. The one I can find was in Shop Notes issue number 79. The other article I can't put my hands on right now was in Fine Woodworking and included putting the assembly on a stove burner for pre-heating before soldering. Maybe someone else will come up with the issue date for the magazine for the second plane.

David Turner
Plymouth, Mi

[Louis Reed]

Thank you all for your very good information. The group will meeting in the next two weeks to discuss the plan of attack.

We will be posting pictures of the progress as we go along.

Thanks again, this is a great forum.

Louis Reed :)

[Aled Dafis]

I recently posted some work in progress shots of a dovetailed smoothing plane I've just finished on my website (http://infillplane.co.uk), which could be of some use to you.

If you're interested I could e-mail you a copy of my Small Shoulder Plane assembly instructions for you to have a look at, the instructions cover the dovetailing process in quite a bit of detail.

Cheers

Aled

[Louis Reed]

Aled,

I just sent you an email, and thank you for your kind offer of help. The group will be very surprised to see this information you send.

Some will be making a #4 and others a shoulder plane. A couple us us are going to make both.

The plan is to start soon meeting a couple of times a month. The main member has both a machine shop and wood shop. We feel very lucky to have his skills and shops available.

Louis Reed :)

[Robert Eiffert]

...should we peen or solder....

Louis

Most serious racing bicycles through the 90's were steel framed and silver soldered together (tubes fitted inside lugs), some were brass brazed.

If a Tour de France rider couldn't break those joints climbing major mountain passes, I don't think we could break a similar joint on a plane.

One reason they used S.solder was lower heat - not change characteristics of the thin wall tubing - and less stress -warping- while heating/cooling.

[brian c miller]

You might want to consider the screw method. Ron Brese posted a tutorial here:

http://70.169.135.35/showthread.php?t=49503

Karl Holtey used a similar method for his 982 smoother for which you can see a lot of details of his process on his blog here:

http://www.holteyplanes.com/blog/category/no-982-smoothing-plane/

I read through his blog, then skipped over to the home page. I will say he makes some nice plane but the No 982 refrances sells for an unapologetic $8,300 USD... which seems like a lot. :eek: