workbench choices

[John A. Callaway]

so, there is some money left over from the tax return. I think I have all but ruled out the bench horse by blum tool co. After much thought, and considering the costs of all the accessories to get it fully functional, I think that for the price of it, and the structural integrity ( namely those little metal legs ) compared to standard benches, I think I would be better off just buying a conventional style workbench and get a little more for my money.

I am really leaning toward the bench that highland woodworking sells, the Hoffmann & Hammer compact bench. It is around 700 dollars. Now, It is worth the cost over a Sjoberg bench , the model 1500 to be exact...which sells for around 550 dollars. I have seen this bench in person and examined it up close. I like it. When I visited Highland woodworking last month, I saw the Hoffmann benches in the store, but people were all over them account Thomas Lie-Nielsen was there and a hand plane demo was going on. The description on the website makes these benches sound really nice, and very well built.... So does any body out there have any first hand experience with the Hoffmann benches ? And what about the Sjoberg benches, I know a few of you creekers have those, so what do ya think ?

I have the money for either bench, but buying the Sjoberg will leave a little left over for some other tool purchase, or, will I get better use of my money and more quality out of a Hoffmann & Hammer. I will most likely order my bench tomorrow or monday morning.

thanks.

[Jim Koepke]

Not knowing your location, I do not know if there is a WoodCraft near by. They used to carry the Sjoberg benches.

My Sjoberg was about $250 when it was bought. I wish it was a bit heavier. The leg frame is made from 2X3s. I was thinking of making new legs, but now feel it would be better to build a new bench.

jim

[Scott Stafford]

Hello John,

It apears to me that you're kind of in that "tweener" price range between benches you'll never really be happy with and a little bit beneath the heavy quality benches. Isn't that always the way?

Anyhow, you might consider calling Gabi Brummer at Diefenbach Benches in Colorado. Gabi has been importing these benches from Germany for many years. Sadly Diefenbach has discontinued manufacture of these benches. The last time I talked to Gabi she said still had a pretty good inventory but when they were gone, they were gone. She had some good deals at that time.

http://www.diefenbachworkbenches.com/index.html
1-800-32Bench

Maybe you and she can find an agreeable price on one of these massive benches. Gabi is very, very fair to deal with.

Good luck. And of course, no affiliation of any kind other then the happy owner of a Diefenbach.

Scott in Montana

[John A. Callaway]

Jim, I have a woodcraft about two hours away, both north and south.. Jacksonville and Charleston. Wood craft has raised the prices on them ...unfortunately I missed the sale they had a while back. They were down to around $ 299.00 plus shipping before christmas...I have seen them, and messed around with one a good bit. I visit the woodcraft in Jax about once every month or so...

Scott, what kinda deals do ya think they have because those benches start around $ 1700.00 .... and they are quite large for a townhouse spare bedroom neanderthal workshop....

I think I may just go ahead and order the the one from Highland. It seems more stable than the sjorberg bench.... maybe the money is burning a hole in my pocket...and I want the best that I can afford.... I kind of hoped somebody would have been able to comment on those benches though.

[Mark Stutz]

John,
I understand that the small size appeals to you in your current situation, but I'm concerned that you will be disappointed in the small Sjoberg bench if you plan to use it primarily for hand work. Even with a sturdy base I made, I could still move it across the shop when hand planing..jus t too light, though I don't know what a cabinet full of tools would do. The vises work, barely, and you'll soon want to upgrade. I really think this bench is for those who only occasionally use hand tools

Mark

[John A. Callaway]

that was kinda what noticed about them in the woodcraft store. I did notice the other bench at highland, but I didnt walk up to them and check them out up close, as i said above, but people were in the store using planes on them and they seemed pretty stable. Plus they are solid beech. I am gonna give highland a call tomorrow and talk with them a little more and see which model was set up out on the floor, and poke around a bit more. I must say, I am not crazy about the tool tray... this bench is 20 inches wide.... and I figure it has to have a good three to four inch wide tool tray.... The Sjoberg would be a shoe in if the sale was still going on for 300 bucks... but at 500 bucks, I think spending the extra two hundred might be worth it for a much better quality bench.

[Jim Koepke]

Buy the quality you can afford and you will not regret it. Try to save on something less and you may.

I have thought of making a tool tray on the back of my bench, but then decided that it might be better to make a new bench with a tool tray. It is nice to have a place to put tools and things so they do not get knocked off the bench when moving wood.

jim

[Joe McMahon]

Jim, I had an Ulmia workbench with a tool tray. Although it was a very good bench, I sold the Ulmia. I just finished building a Roubo and did not incorporate a tool tray. The reason I no longer want a tool tray is that my old tray just filled with tools and junk. I would clean it out and 30 seconds later it was full again. It may be a handy place to put tools so that they don't get knocked off the bench, but they end up being a receptacle for an incredible amount of "stuff". And that tool you were looking for? Its buried under "stuff" and you won't find it till spring.

HTH, Joe

[Rick Erickson]

John, I have their largest size bench and am happy with it. I too bought it at Highland Hardware. It is a heavy sucker. I can't speak to their smaller one. The benches setup in HH are the large and medium from what I remember.

[Paul Saffold]

John, I have a Sjoberg top that I bought at Woodcraft about 20 years ago. I was thrilled with it when I got it. It was a huge improvement from the B&D workmate I was using. There are some things I don't like about it, now that I have a little more experience and am trying to do a little more hand tool work.

The dog holes are 0.723" not 3/4" therefore cannot use aftermarket bench dog accessories. The top is 1" thick with a 2 3/4" apron. The apron is 3/4" wide making it a pain to clamp to the top near the edge. It is only 19 3/4" wide. It is too light. The vises rack a lot so I have to use a "filler" of the same thickness on the unused side of the vise. That is not a huge deal, but an annoyance.

I could make new legs and stretchers out of hardwood to gain weight. I used s-f-p from a borg. I would make a new bench instead of just the undercarriage but there are too many projects that need to be done first and this one is mostly workable.

The newer Sjobergs may be much improved from what I have, but these are a few things to look for when picking out your bench. Good luck.

Paul

[John A. Callaway]

Jim, sorta the way I am thinking....

Joe, The tool tray on this bench isnt very deep, so I am not sure how much junk will wind up in it...

Rick, I saw a few other threads where you talked about your bench... I was hoping you might chime in and tell me you used the small in store at some point. But I think that the quality of the product is there in all models...

Paul, the reasons you gave for the sjoberg are pretty much the same ones every one has as far as complaints go. I Think the bench should still be around 300 bucks all the time. Ironically, the new Rockler bench seems to have some of the exact same issues, which is why I didnt even include it. They are both the same style bench, and it seems like the Rockler is a little cheaper, but still has the same problems.

But ... I just called Highland woodworking to order it. I am currently waiting on a call back either today or monday with a shipping quote... The guy I talked to seemed like he was in a bit of a hurry with me over the phone. I only asked what the width of the tray was compared to the total width of the bench, and if it came with any dogs.... So i hope the guy was just very busy with in store customers instead of just in a hurry. Not the same customer service as I received in store a few weeks ago by far...

So, depending on shipping costs I may drive up one day this week and pick it up . I figure if shipping is more than around $125.00 from Atlanta to Savannah ( me picking it up at the carriers terminal in savannah ) it will be cheaper for me to buy the gas to drive up there and back on my day off...

Stay tuned... pics will be posted after I get it home and assembled.

But for now, I am in Columbia, SC and can't sleep so I think I will walk down to Mann Tool Co. and look around a bit.... see whats on sale !!!

[Darnell Hagen]

I love my tool tray, I think the problem with most is that they're too small to be useful. Mine will fit a #3 on it's side, and it's almost a #7 deep. I think it depends on how you work, if your bench is constantly cluttered and a mess, then yes, the tray will just be collection of garbage. My work style is very organized and deliberate, mostly because I'm naturally clumsy and can't afford to replace tools broken due to carelessness. The tray keeps my tools close at hand, below the work surface, and insures they won't take a leap off my bench. Just my opinion, I know some hate the tray.

As far as the bench goes, if I were you I'd build my own. It doesn't need to be solid Beech to work, it just needs to work. If you still prefer to buy rather than build, I'd pool this years return with next years and get something heavy.

[John A. Callaway]

It is not that I prefer to buy rather than build....it is simply a lack of other resources ( tools ) and a rather small surplus ....( yeah, what ever ) of available cash, and room to take on a project like a full size bench. I want to build a fullsize bench.... but I lack a table saw, I lack a number 7 or a number 8 jointer plane, or powered planer....and a fullsize workshop. I do however have the book by the Schwarz...and I appreciate the magnitude of a project of that size and skill level. I still have a long way to go to get fully operational. In the mean time, this bench will last a very long time, and will allow me to work with what I have for now with out the risk of me outgrowing it for a while. After this , I can start focusing on buying the good stuff : sharpening supplies, better chisels, a mixture of Veritas and LN planes, ( I have a 2,500 dollar wish list on the LV site if anyone is feeling generous ! ) some woodpeckers measuring tools and squares and angle gauges ( really like their stuff ) , and several more handsaws. I do plan to buy a small portable table saw sometime soon....either the rigid, the bosch or the small dewalt and build that table saw stand they had in shop notes a while back . A table saw or a small band saw would help out ALOT for rough sizing lumber. That little Rikon they have at highland was pretty neat when I looked it over.

This bench will be inside my house, so I really am concerned about the way it looks too. I don't want rough 2x4s and handy man's bench in my dining room .... we don't dine in it.... and the two rooms upstairs are taken by the SWMBO and her sewing studio and a fully furnished spare guest bedroom. This size bench fits where I can put it, and it looks nice enough to have inside a home. ALL power tool work will be done outside. If it makes shavings it will be done in the house, if it makes dust it will be done in the sun.

After this bench though the very next purchase is a set of those LV detail chisels, LV block plane and a LN bronze #4 smoother and water stones. Then I can start learning to smooth out a board and hand cut some joinery.

[Rick Erickson]

John, if you've read Schwarz's book on benches you have learned he isn't a big fan of the face vice on these benches. I have to agree. That would be the only thing on the bench I would change out (and am looking to do so). It's not a quality issue as much as a usability issue. I'm considering either a leg vice or a large twin screen vice. If you are buying the small one you will want to look for ways to add weight to it (unless it is going on carpet in your house). Are you looking at the smaller one for space reasons?

[David Keller NC]

John - All arm-twisting for building your own bench aside, I think that purchasing a bench given your situation makes sense. However, the comments about the bench you're thinking of being not heavy enough for and-planing is accurate. I go to a weekly carving class at a local woodworking shop that has a number of Jet workbenches that are in the weight and size range that you're considering. I've done demos of handplaning rough boards on those benches at woodworking fairs, and they do have a tendency to walk all over the room.

So if you do decide on the H&H bench that's noted as weighing 100 lbs., I'd count on doing one of two things to alleviate the weight problem - either bolt it to the floor, or as one of your first projects, build a wooden tray to fit on the lower stretchers, and add a few 50 lb. bags of sand to it.

I've done this to a bench before, and my take is that you need about 250 lbs. total to keep the bench from moving around when you're 4-squaring a board by hand.

[Ryan Welch]

hey all, I am new to the forum but, regarding your current dilema, may I suggest the new heavy duty bench from Grizzly.You would have to drill your own dog holes but, the bench is extremely heavy and strong. The price sits around your price range and at over 300 lbs should be sturdy enough for your needs. This is the only bench from Grizzly that I can recommend as most of their benches wobble rather significantly when planing any heavy lumber. I have provided the link for your consideration.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/72-x-36-Heavy-Duty-Birch-Workbench/H8362

[John A. Callaway]

space is certainly an issue...but the wall it will be going against is about twelve feet long. I don't want the bench to swallow the entire room, so space is one factor. Secondly, It will a fair amount of time before I take on any project of significant size, like building a dresser or something. This bench should keep up with me for a while. I was wondering, and I will look up close once it arrives, about a bottom shelf, and about either a leg vise or a twin screw. I will have to see what sort of means of mounting are available to me. If does try to walk around on me I will weigh it down to hold it in place. It will be on carpet with those roll up anti-fatigue mats under it that all the wood work stores sell to cover the carpet.

[Ed Rosen]

John - FWWM Issue #188 has a review of premade workbenches which included an H&H. They described it as " smallest, lightest, and cheapest of the benches we looked at . . . [it] could have been overshadowed by the heavyweight competition, but it stood its ground and earned the best-value award."

Their principal concern was racking front to back (not end to end) and suggested adding mass below the top - e.g. with built in tool storage - sounds like that may be a good early project for you.

B.O.L.

Ed R.

[John A. Callaway]

I just got it put together. It , and the other things I bought today, are sort of worthy of a gloat thread...so look for that here in a few minutes ..... :cool:

[Maurice Ungaro]

Jim, I have a woodcraft about two hours away, both north and south.. Jacksonville and Charleston.

John FYI: the Woodcraft in Charleston closed last year.

[John A. Callaway]

Didnt know that. I havent been there in a while. I usually go to he one in jax when I am down there working...

[Tom Vanzant]

Mark,
I can relate to walking a small bench across the floor while planing. Years ago, I bought a Lervad carver's bench, a neat but small bench with tail vise, double rows of dog holes, and a shoulder vise. The top measured only 10" x 51", the base was a very light-weight folding affair, and the whole thing barely weighed 100#, but it made a good platform for shaping and inletting rifle stocks. I have since replaced the base with a much heavier one and have increased the width to 16"+, but it still "walked" while planing. Since my other major therapy is target shooting, I have several hundred pounds of lead and wheel-weights for casting bullets. I made several shallow trays to contain the lead, and they now reside on the lower shelf of the bench. No more walking. I have read of others using sandbags to the same end. One of these days, I'll build a real bench.... Tom