barn saved, near Philly

[Bob Riefer]

Hi guys,
Brand new to this forum... I'm so impressed with the level of knowledge and the nice/courteous vibe here. I hope I can become a contributor as I learn more.

Background:
I'm drawn to woodworking.. I work a desk job, but really enjoy working with my hands more. Unfortunately, I haven't had a lick of training ever. None. Also, I didn't have a place to work. And I didn't have any idea how to build anything.

Solution:
Decided to save my barn to create a place to work. That took about a year.
Signed up for a week long woodworking course from a local master woodworker (that's coming in April).
After the course, when I have a better feel for what to look for, I will begin to accumulate tools to fill up my shop.
And in the meantime, I'm soaking up knowledge from folks like yourselves.

Here's the barn, I hope you like it (edit: Please note that the website shows you a rough blue print.. the area titled "Car parking" is actually where all the woodworking equipment will be.. the area titled "workshop" is more of a household/general purposes workshop):
http://rieferbarn.shutterfly.com/

[Jim Rimmer]

Looks like a great place for a shop. Wish I had that much space. And welcome to the Creek.

[David Hostetler]

Welcome to a long standing tradition and art of woodworking, and welcome to Sawmill Creek. I too pilot a desk all day long, but love building and fixing things... Congrats on the week long course. I was going to suggest that if your community college has continuing ed, or adult ed classes on woodworking, sign up! A lot of 2 year institutions do have those classes, unfortunately none that I am in district for, but that is a completely separate lament...

As far as learning techniques goes, you should do it in this order...

#1. Learn the SAFE way to do the job.
#2. Learn the effective way to do the job.
#3. Learn the fancy way to do the job...

Yeah there is a lot more to it than that, but hopefully you get the idea.

[Bob Riefer]

Thanks for the welcome :-) SOOO much to learn, but if barn saving taught me one thing, it's that you are capable of anything if you set your mind to it, open yourself to learning, and are willing to fail on the path to success.

Here's the course I'm taking in April, would love to hear thoughts on it:

http://www.jdlohrwood.com/services.htm


Right now, knowing nothing, my long term goal with the space and with woodworking is to be able to make simple country style furniture that I can use in my own house or for friends/family. And if I ever gain enough skill to sell pieces to help support the hobby, gravy.

Oh, and I want to keep all my fingers, toes, eyes, etc. too :D

[Mike Wilkins]

As a lover of old buildings, it looked great to see you save that barn. I would love a place like that for a woodworking shop.
As for classes; start with hand tools first. This way you have a great understanding of what the power tools are doing. A tablesaw is just a handsaw with a motor; something like that.

[David Hostetler]

Oh, and I want to keep all my fingers, toes, eyes, etc. too :D

While you are at it, don't forget about the ears and the lungs... :-D

[Michael MacDonald]

nice... was that an outhouse right in front, or a ticket booth? need to keep that. Also a healthy looking sawhorse... that should support some weight. I am jealous of your space... I have nothing like it.

I think the most fun you could have to start out is to start a debate on what power tool you should get first (assuming you go that route and not purist hand tools), and if a table saw is even needed at all.

As a way of being helpful, I would note that there are some posts around here regarding some great deals on tools... if you have time, keep your eyes open and you can save a ton of cash... best of luck!

[Joe Shinall]

Welcome to the Creek. And welcome to poverty...:rolleyes:

[Jim Watts]

...
Here's the course I'm taking in April, would love to hear thoughts on it:

http://www.jdlohrwood.com/services.htm
...

I've taken Jeffrey's course - WELL worth it, no complaints. He's got a great personality and sense of humor, great woodworking skills, excellent presenter, nice shop. He's got a couple of great assistants (Rob and Eon [Owen]). You'll learn a ton - shop safety, tool selection/use/maintenance, wood properties/behavior, milling stock, joinery, some design, but a little light on finishing. That's understandable, though, given that that could be a week long course (or multi-year apprenticeship) in itself. Pay attention, though, it moves pretty quickly.

Don't worry about being a newb - you won't be intimidated at all. Neander topics are minimal - he runs a production shop (kinda live edge/G&G fusion is his specialty) when he's not running the school.

Don't forget to take some treats for the dogs (esp. Toby the German Shepherd). PM me if you have any questions I might be able to answer.

[greg Forster]

Welcome Bob,


Swing on over to Neanderthal Haven and introduce yourself. We're the do it with hand tools guys at Sawmill Creek

[David Christopher]

welcome to the creek Bob, thats a very nice looking barn and looks like it will make great shop.

you must be near Willow Grove

[Bob Riefer]

wow, thanks for all the "welcomes" :) I've been reading and reading on this forum, what a great group you have here! Also thanks for the kind comments about the barn - it ain't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but not bad for a self taught pencil pusher.

Mike Wilkins - Your point about learning hand tools methods as part of the learning process is a good one. The instructor for my course takes that approach (teach long division, then give the calculator etc.) but does definitely lean towards machine aided woodworking.

Michael MacDonald - Ha ha, I forgot my sawhorse was up on that link. I'm embarassed for this group to see that. But it's functional! (and, the outhouse had to be burned... sooooo rotten and bug infested.. I saved the horse shoes that were above the door, and the jacket hook that was hanging inside)

Jim Watts - Wow, that's so cool that you took the same course and feel it was worth the time/expense. I actually live 5 minutes from Jeffry's farm and was able to take a quick tour and meet him and Rob. Such nice guys. If I were not the sole income for our family, I'd apprentice there in a heartbeat!

[Sam Layton]

Hi Bob, welcome to the Creek, it is a pleasure to meet you. I like your barn, you have done an excellent job. That is going to be a great place for your woodworking. I really like your sawhorse, don't be embarrassed, it looks great and fits well in the barn.

The school you are going to attend looks good as well. I think you will enjoy it.

Always remember safety, Sam

[Jamie Schmitz]

Sweet shop dude and good for you to realize your passion early on. If you do insulate I would be careful about trapping the moisture since there is no moisture barrier unless you install new siding and wrap it. As long as it can breathe you should be good. Also I would highly suggest placing a couple of strategically placed brackets on the cross members and the roof joists. You did a knock up job so far and please disregard my comment if this was stepping over the line, surely you are not done.

[Ray Bell]

What a great looking shop. It looks like a very nice place to work, and hang out in. As for tools, lets see, you have a miter saw, a grinder, a vice, a hammer, tv, and beer. I think you are set

[Bob Riefer]

Hey guys

Jamie - funny that you say "early" because I've been whining and moaning about being in my 30's when I figured this all out.

For insulating, I used kraft backed insulation in the office space, and am doing the same now that I'm getting around to insulating the shop space. But ultimately, the barn will be skinned in vertical steel siding (like a pole barn) because of the mish mash of materials on the outside and 70+ years of negect it's not worth saving. But the barn breathes overly well on top of that! :) Do you think I'm on the right track?

For the brackets that you mention, do you mean collar ties on the 2nd story? If yes, that's in the plans (although I've seen no deflection up there even with heavy snow). Or something else?

I LOVE getting comments, don't be shy!

Ray - you've summed up my skill set perfectly.. cut, grind, squeeze, bang it into submission, give up and watch the game while having a cold one.

[Jamie Schmitz]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2776/4357213472_a046ac80ce.jpg

[Bob Riefer]

Gotcha, thought you might be referring to the roof area. It's remarkably ok considering the amount of movement this building has seen, but I'm still planning either plywood or metal gurts (is that the right word?) as you've pictured as well as collar ties (dual benefit.. will make finishing the ceiling easier and will help manage the spreading force). The cavity created above the collar ties will be used to house a gable fan so I can draw heat up and out of the building.

[Jim Becker]

Nice job, Bob. It's always wonderful when a structure like that can both be saved and so nicely re-purposed!

[Joe A Faulkner]

Bob, Like you, I am new to Sawmill Creek, but I've been doing wood working on and off for 25 years. I've been stepping it up a bit the past couple of years and have a renewed interest in learning more and making more pieces. Here are a couple of sites that I find both inspirational and somewhat addictive. First the Wood Whisperer, Marc J. Spagnuolo, has a fantastic site full of free on-line videos. Warning, go there at your own risk, you can easily spend hours checking out his stuff. The URL is:
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/.

Second is the New Chinky Workshop. URL: http://www.thenewchinkyworkshop.com/.

I find Ray's site inspiring. A great shop tour and a his projects are impressive. I get the feeling he operates on very little sleep.

[Bob Riefer]

Hey Joe - thanks for those links... As you warned, I got sucked in for quite awhile! :)

Hi Jim, Thanks for the nice comment!!

---
I wasn't sure whether to start a new thread on this one or not.. So I'll start here for now.

Shop layout

So, I basically have 2 side-by-side rectangular spaces that are each approximately 12' x 18'.

One of these rectangles, I'll call "the Workshop", has a bunch of space taken up by stairs. Right now, the idea is to use under the stairs for lumber racks, including furniture components (like table legs etc.) for items that I plan to make multiple units of. The rest of the space would be for furniture assembly, general household stuff etc.

The other rectangle, I'll call "the Woodshop", has a 9x7 garage door in it, and is otherwise totally a blank slate. No work tables, no obstructions, no shelves. Just floor, lights, walls, and well placed electrical outlets.

The questions
1)
I don't want to do too much customization in the Woodshop until I take my woodworking course in April and have an idea of what I'm doing. But, I don't want to waste from now until then if there are some steps I could take. Any suggestions of layout/setup/prep things I can do to my blank canvas that would be low-risk in terms of having to be undone later? That is, are there a couple slam dunk setup ideas that I can start on now? Racks, tables, shelves, cabinets, closet for dust collecting, etc... anything

2)
For the Workshop side, do you think I'm foolish to do assembly in a different area than all the cutting/planing/sanding etc.?

edit: if that's not foolish, my thought was to put my pancake compressor under whatever work table I create for assembly.. This would allow me to create a sound dampening system and have it near to where it would most often be needed for tacking etc. Wondering if real/live workflow is like I have it pictured in my mind.

[George Sanders]

Welcome to the creek. Oh, to have such space. Wouldn't do me any good though because I would fill it up as fast as it became available.
You're going to have a wonderful workshop. The more you do the more your skills will improve. Just remember that anything, no matter how complex, is simply a collection of details; and if you give each one the attention it deserves the end result will be more than satisfactory.

[Bob Riefer]

Thanks George. Really great advice about complex tasks being a collection of smaller details. It speaks to the project manager side of me, and also reminds me of the countless lists I made up during the barn save.

---

Just an update, I've reached what I'll call "finished" for now.

Basically, I've left the woodshop side mostly a blank slate except a couple storage solutions and a station for the miter saw.

I am holding off on insulating/enclosing the walls over there until I know where I want electrical outlets and whether the wall space is useful for running dust collection lines or anything else.

Anyways, a shop tour is updated here if you're interested. Always interested in comments/suggestions/tips. Thanks for all the encouragement so far :)

http://rieferbarn.shutterfly.com/192

[Ray Bell]

Bob, your Project Management experience is serving you well here. Sounds like you are doing a great job of planning this out. I know there must be better ways to arrange my garage/shop so it isn't so chaotic, jumbled, and make it easier to clean, but just haven't come up with the perfect solution. The only thing I can recommend for you is get rid of all that lawn upkeep stuff, weights, and bicycle machines so you have more room for more toys (tools).;)

[Joe A Faulkner]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but checkout the wood whisperer videos on the Torsion Box Assembly Table and Tablesaw OutFeed table.

If you are serious about making country style furniture for your home, you will want a surface for assembly work. I don't think you would be sorry building either the Assembly Table or the table saw out feed table from this site:

http://thewoodwhisperer.com/category/video/marcs-projects/page/2/

Assembly Table: Projects #18 & 19
OutFeed Table: Project: #30

[harry strasil]

OH Boy Bob, you made me drool, iffen I was a bit younger and not physically disabled, I would love to come and help you save the barn, I have straightened several old barns in the past and installed new girts and joists etc, mostly in post and beam structures. I love timberframing and if you haven't already guessed I am a Galoot, I prowl the Neander Haven mostly.

Keep up the GOOD work with the ole barn.

[Dave Gaul]

I love the idea of re-purposing things, especially things that deal with or made from wood!!

So where exactly is 30 minutes West of Philly?

I'm ~ 45 to an hour NW of Philly... just SW of Reading....

[Bob Riefer]

Yikes, I totally lost track of this thread for quite awhile!

Dave - I'm in Collegeville PA, so we're not far from each other at all I think. If you ever find yourself over this way, let me know and we can hang out in the barn and swap ideas etc.

---

Well, I finally got the woodshop insulated and OSB'd, and then built my miter station. Still lots of work to do, but it's starting to look like a usable shop.

(edit: btw, that table saw will be raised up onto a plywood box to match the miter station height.. I'm tall so I like a little more height on the table surfaces.. and the jointer is going on casters, and will be similarly raised up too.)

[Bob Riefer]

Got some more work done over the past couple days.

I put the table saw up on its plywood box. Now it's the same height as the miter station, and nicer for me to work on (less bending). Plywood box was made of scrap I had laying around.

That allowed me to take the mobile base, and set it up to hold the drill press. I had some scrap lumber for this too. Bolter the lumber to the base, and the drill press to the lumber. And then added weight (bag of sand) to the base too. It's not tippy at all.

Now that I could move the drill press, I wanted to bring it into the woodshop. So I removed a set of rarely used cabinets, and moved the rolling cart beneath it, push the DP to its new home.

Decided the casters from the rolling cart would be more useful for the jointer... So I started removing them (didn't finish yet). Those drawers will live under the end of the miter station, and now I have "free" casters to use.

Figured out my plan for my table saw outfeed table and my planer. Basically, the TS will have a 20" table on left, back, and right of the cast iron surface. This leaves me storage space underneath on all sides, most importantly, a (approx) 30" garage on the left side.

In this little "garage" the planer will sit on a hydraulic cart (see link) when the plane is not in use. When needed, back it out of its garage space, crank it up so that the planer outfeed runs directly onto the TS outfeed. The dust collection will have enough flex connected to the planer to allow this backing out motion. Run your pieces through, and re-park the planer.

Picking up the band saw 1st week of november. Then, I have to work on DC setup for awhile, rounding out the tools list, and my first trip ever to the sawmill.

edit: cart link:
http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lb-capacity-hydraulic-scissor-table-cart-93116.html?utm_term=93116&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=googlebase

[Dave Gaul]

Starting to shape up nicely! I'll let you know if I visit Collegeville area...

[Bob Riefer]

Got the table saw outfeed table and side table built today. I used the previously mentioned discount doors to do the job. Went pretty well considering I was building on the fly. I have to get a router bit for the miter slots still, but I'll get to it soon.

The planer still needs the cart, but you can see where it'll sit in its "garage". Once in place, I have a nice long out feet (about 12 feet) and can open the overhead garage door if I need a long infeed (6 feet without the door open.. unlimited with it open).

Moved the jointer to the left of the side table. This gives me 8 feet in and 8 feet out without ever having to move it. The majority of dust collection for planer/jointer/table saw will all be hidden under the outfeed table.

Also picked up 2x4's to stud the walls on the workshop side. I have insulation already, so I'll be warmed in before the weather really turns.

I'd love to OSB the walls in the workshop too, but budget is limited and I have to pick up my band saw in 2 weeks, so I'll be living with insulation showing over there for a couple months. Oh well.

Thanks for reading :-)

[Bob Riefer]

I somehow squeezed a productive barn weekend in between coaching pee wee soccer, attending a kid's birthday party, watching the Phillies lose, and tending to daughter with 24 hour stomach bug.

First, Friday night, I picked up free PVC fittings from a friend. It's 4" (I know, 6" is preferred for dust collection.. but free is a good price for me) and I will only have to buy about $50 worth of materials to do my complete DC ducting solution.

Same friend also gave me a couple speakers to add to the shop stereo system which was a nice bonus. Now I can hear on the woodshop side in addition to the workshop side.

Went to Habitat Re-Store on Saturday. My first visit. WOW. Wish I'd known about this sooner. As an example, they had 12 inch carriage bolts for 10 cents apiece. They also had a nice 24" x 6.5' solid core door for $1.50. It was already painted white and no door knob hole had ever been drilled out, so I brought it home and it will be my assembly table until I feel like making something nicer. Price was right. I will be going to that store every saturday for the foreseeable future. (Another example... Delta grinder - $15.... spring hinges - $1 each... ceiling fan - $20... vinyl windows - $20... brand new vct tiles - $0.50 each)

Studded and insulated the wall by my sub panel. Pain in the butt in an old crooked barn as each stick needs to be individually measured and cut, and I had to box out around the panel. But it turned out nicely.

Got the lumber shelves under the stairs cleared off so that I can get back in there and stud the walls and insulate etc.

Decided on using pump jacks system to do the siding on the barn. Struck out on a few craigs list deals, but it appears they show up often used, so I'll be fine. Don't really want to start siding until spring anyways.

Next up: finish stud and insulation work, followed by wall covering, followed by picking up band saw on November 6th, followed by DC duct work, followed by baffle build and DC purchase, followed by actually building some damn furniture.

[Bob Riefer]

well, since I wrote last, I decided that my under-the-stairs lumber storage was a stupid waste of space. It forced me to have my workbench out in room taking up valuable real estate. So.... I killed the lumber racks altogether, insulated and osb'd everthing, ran electric as needed, and disassembled my old bench, built a new one under the stairs, built a temporary assembly table to hold me over until I can build a nice one, removed the door and the wall between the two spaces, moved my planer to it's final resting spot, swept the floor, had a beer...

some sneak peaks


(edit.. I think I'm talking to myself... anyone out there?)

[Bob Riefer]

Not everyone all at once! :) (kidding, but I'd love to hear some feedback if you're reading)


Anyways, made more progress tonight

bandsaw pickup tomorrow night :D

[Mark Godlesky]

Very nice space, Bob. I'm jealous.

[Rob Cunningham]

Looks like you did a great job on everything Bob. The only thing I see wrong is that it's too clean. Start making some dust :D

[Bob Riefer]

Yay! Comments :) Thanks guys!

(Rob... I totally agree, time to actually build things instead of building the space itself)

--

New addition to the shop... I think this officially brings me to the point where dust collection and odds and ends are all that are needed to get to work!

The saw is in great condition from the same guy that sold me my drill press. Got another blade with it, the light kit, mobile base... $250. I felt good about the deal.

[Joe A Faulkner]

The shop is shaping up very nicely. You should feel very good about what you've accomplished. Keep us posted.

[Bob Riefer]

Thanks Joe.. I know my place isn't as perfect or awesome as many, but it's really encouraging all the same when I get positive feedback. I hope to post again in a few weeks with the dust collection installation. And then it's time to start building furniture! (at least until spring when I need to side the building and think about gutters... roof is still good for a few more seasons)

[Greg Labacz]

Welcome Bob,
I'm also a beginner in WW. since you're close to Philly (where I live) look at :Philadelphiafurnitureworkshop.com. It's a great woodworking school with courses from 1 night to 1 week. Alan and Mario are great teachers, they taught me a lot so far.

[Bob Riefer]

Hey Greg! Thanks for the tip, I'll definitely check that out :)

[Bob Riefer]

going to visit my folks next week and they asked for a "shop tour" video.. so I figured I might as well post it here too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUQc75UKIaU

[Bob Riefer]

Well, woodshop progress is on hold if the step involves purchasing anything. :( Our family vehicle finally got to the point where it was time to part with it rather than get nickle and dimed, so wifey has a nice new mini van, and I have funds defecit for a little while.

But, there's lots of stuff to work on that doesn't cost anything.

For example, I made the fence system for my miter counter yesterday. It's decidely low tech compared to everyone else's amazing systems, but I think it'll be just fine for the near term (perhaps forever). Basically I took a straight 2x4, marked and labeled it every inch, and screwed it down to the surface. Is a 2x4 perfectly straight? Nope. Does it have every measurement increment? Nope. Does it have fancy hold down system? Nope. Did it allow me to cut 4 accurately measured and perfectly matched work table legs with ease? Yup.

Tomorrow, I'll make the work table that will be my sanding / grinding / sharpening station. Nothing fancy, just a sheet of plywood hanging perpendicular to the wall on some triangle brackets. I do plan to cut the top to a kidney bean shape for some visual interest and because it'll allow me to sit "in" the table area. I have some scrap plywood laying around, so this is another essentially free project.

Next week, it's time to start clearing out the 2nd story of the barn. Lots of barn wood up there, but almost none of it is worth anything. Hopefully in the spring I can start finishing that space.

Happy thanksgiving everyone

[Bob Riefer]

RECAP POST
Well, I realized I've been showing nice "today" pics recently but never took the time to really tell the before story (which makes "today" seem somewhat impossible even to me). I lazily pointed everyone out to a shutterfly site, which is not nearly as user friendly as describing it here.

Background:
The barn was built in about 1902 or so. It is post and beam pegged at the joints and largely sitting upon dry stacked foundation stones. Severe neglect for most of the last 60 years or so left me with a leaning building that was literally sinking and rotting into the ground. At some point, a previous owner poured some foundation out of cement, but honestly did a poor job. The exterior siding is totally shot, the electric was dangerous, and the structure was a death trap overall.

SO... let's go ahead and save that sucker to do woodworking in!

(remember, when I started this project, I had very little construction experience, and absolutely NO woodworking experience. Therefore, this was a labor of love and faith from the very beginning)

Next posts... "BEFORE"

[Bob Riefer]

BEFORE

The building had basically a dirt floor, no insulation, and cobbled together/under-powered electric. The back sill of the building swung freely when kicked. The stairs deflected about 6 inches under my weight. The 2nd story deflected about 4 inches under my weight. Here's what it looked like:

[Bob Riefer]

DURING

So... The building is tipping over, entirely unsafe, completely unusable, freezing cold (it's January at this point)... and I have no skills at all.

So I read and read and read... and talk to barn owners... and builders... and Amish barn builders... and I figure out the order of operations goes like this:
1) pull it as straight as possible
2) fix posts/foundation/sill
3) everything else

Interestingly, the "everything else" is what gets the ooohs and ahhhs from most people, whereas the "pull it straight" and "fix posts/foundation/sill" was where all the really cool and hard work ocurred. Shrug.

I used 6 come alongs to pull the building over a 1/2 foot straighter. It still leans, but it's much better now. This was a scary and noisy process. I left myself multiple exit routes at all times, wore safety gear galore, and just went very slowly. A building this old isn't real keen on being moved, but move it I did.

After the building was straight and braced to high heaven, I lifted each rotten post in the building and spliced in good wood on top of a cement footer. To dig the footers I had to first unstack huge foundation stones, then mix and pour. Meanwhile the building is suspended on jacks for a few days at a time. I had NO helpers at all, so it was relatively slow going.

The center post in the building is the most important post. Mine was completely hollow. So I had to support all the way to the roof with jacks, and entirely replace it.

Also shown here is a lifting rig I built to lift the front of the building. This worked nicely, I would use this method again.

Framing the back wall (the wall that once swung freely when kicked) was validating step in the process. I added two intermediate posts where there were previously none... over a 25 foot span!!! This allowed me to suspend a sill between the posts and build up from there. The sill and framing in this area is not structural as the posts do the work, but they definitely add strength and give me a place to attach sheet goods.

And finally, I contracted out one step in this process... the floor.

[Bob Riefer]

AFTER (edit: see previous page for BEFORE recap)

Well, you guys have seen the best "after" shots already, but for sake of a complete recap post, here's some basics..

Basically, I have a 15 x 15 "exercise room" (or office, hangout room, multipurpose room etc.). This room is finished like a rustic living room essentially. Our farm house is too small for us to have a space like this inside, so it's a big bonus space for us.

Behind the exercise room is my "shed space" where the mower and kids toys etc. are stored. I'm building a separate board and batton shed next summer, so this will then be mostly for kids bikes and lumber storage.

The rest of the first floor is workshop as seen in this recent youtube clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUQc75UKIaU


The second story of the barn is wide open (not pictured here), but the plan is:
- 20 x 25 finished recreation room space
- 15 x 25 storage space

Upcoming projects I will be tackling (apart from woodworking shop setup stuff):
- exterior siding
- re-roof (may hire this one out)
- front deck


I hope you enjoyed the history tour :) This site is an inspiration to me and I hope I have given something back.

[Bob Riefer]

Conclusion:
When people tell me I'm crazy, or give me that "you're crazy" look, when I tell them that I will become a professional woodworker, I just think to what I've done so far. The dedication to the cause, the perserverence, the depressing amounts of hard labor... If I can do that, I can do anything. Hard economy, lack of experience, time shortage while working my day job and raising my kids and spending time with my wife... all of that can be overcome. It'll take me years to get there, but I'm on my way.

[Todd Crawford]

Looks great Bob - you should be proud! Can't wait to see when you get all your tools set up and start churning out some creations!

[Bob Riefer]

Thanks Todd! I can't wait either. This last step of the journey is agonizingly slow. On a single income, it's just very tough to pay for the family AND make all the needed purchases to get a woodshop going. Right now, I have dust collection and knives/blades/glues/clamps to pickup still.. And lumber! ha ha. But I can't wait to be making furniture instead of being a builder.

---
We have paint! I bought 3 gallons of white from habitat restore for $0.75 total. Well, it was spoiled... So, I made a witch's brew of tan paint from several 1/2 gallons in the basement. Turned out fine and the space is much brighter now. Funny how a simple thing like paint can change a space.

[Bob Riefer]

baby steps towards the finish line...

tonight, I took an odd shaped piece of free corian counter top that I got from my brother in law, and turned it into my "fastener and sorting station"... where all things fastening and sorting will be. Built some slat wall with some scrap material and hung some of my bins. More to do, but it's far enough along for a fun post

173856 173855

[Bob Riefer]

A couple of things have happened lately.

One, I finished the sorting/tool station, which allowed the nook under the stairs to be dedicated entirely to design/office/literature etc.
175772 175775 175773 175774

And two, I brought home the harbor freight 2hp dust collector. I'm pushing the exhaust through a Thien Baffle (thanks Phil!!) and then venting the rest outside. The duct work has yet to be attached, but we tested, and have a nice visible cyclonic action happening. :)

175776

[Bob Riefer]

Well, nothing like redoing a project one day after finishing it in the first place! ha ha. The large footprint of the original design was driving me crazy, and the long duct run to exhaust outside wasn't what I wanted, but I really liked how the original design collected the dust in a bag instead of a barrel (easier to tie up and discard).

So, I modified to this stacked assembly which reduced the footprint in half, and the exhaust run is now about 12 inches instead of 7 feet. The intake is directly in line with where the main trunk will be. The connection between the blower and the top of the assembly is about 1/4" apart and covered with flex hose for a good seal.


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Now that the collector is sucking through the bag/baffle instead of blowing through it, I need to keep the bag from imploding when the unit is turned on. I took an extra roll of plastic-coated mesh fencing cut it to size, put electrical tape over any sharp areas, and it now acts as a skeleton inside the bag. When the bag is full, take it outside, shimmy the cage out, tie up the bag, discard. Put the cage into the next bag and repeat.

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Tests were a success, so I'm ready to move on to ducting finally. Sometimes it's "measure twice, cut twice" I guess.

[Homer Faucett]

From one 30-something woodworker in a detached barn to another, great job! I am currently insulating the block walls in my barn. I totally understand and appreciate all the work that went into squaring up and structurally rehanging that barn. Kudos to you. Keep posting. I think we're living parallel lives, to some extent.

[Bob Vallaster]

Bob,
You are my nominee for the 2010 Sparkplug award.
The Before and After pics above prompted me to go back to your opening post and to take the side tour to your web page.
Looks like ten hard months of grunt work, but there's so much to admire in the finished product. Nice work.
And thanks for giving us the blow-by-blow account of the 'save.'

BobV

[Bob Riefer]

What a nice surprise to see this thread bumped with a couple of really nice and motivating comments. Truly, thank you, it does help the energy level to hear from you guys. :)

(btw, what's a spark plug award? is that a saying, or am I supposed to be nominating people too?)

---

Anyhow, I was going to wait until the blast gates and flex hose were connected, but that's going to be another couple weeks until my next paycheck, so I'll post now.

This weekend, I got my 4" PVC hooked up to each machine. I received most of the pipe for free from a friend, so it looks a little beat up, but it's been pressure washed and should work fine. Also, because of my shop's shape, rafter alignment, etc., there are some 90 degree bends being used. I know, not optimal, but at a certain point, you just need to say to yourself: "self... stop reading the overwhelming amounts of information out there, and just try it". So, once I get the gates in and can really test, we'll see if performance is satisfactory or not. Honestly, based on far worse solutions that I've witnessed working just fine, I have a feeling I'll be happy with my setup.

Side note: My 3M 7500 series respirator arrived before the weekend. So comfortable to wear, and boy was my nose happy about it. HIGHLY recommend.

Anyways, ducting.

First, I cut the hole to exhaust outside. Went without a hitch. I pitched it down just a bit.
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About a foot from the intake, the main branches below the counter top to feed the miter saw, table saw, and jointer. edit: I forgot to take a picture of the miter saw solution but I'll get one when I build the hood soon. Basically, I came up from underneath the counter immediately behind the saw. So, there's a 4" hole right where all the dust gets shot during a cut. Combined with a hood, and gravity, I hope to clean up that very messy area. More pics of that soon.
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And the other branch goes above the counter so it can go over to the other side of the room. Yeah, some 90's were used, it is what it is.
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[Bob Riefer]

CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

Under the counter, branches out to the table saw. I installed a ramp under the blade that will allow all the dust to fall right to the port that's in the bottom of the motor cover.

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Then, we branch over to the jointer, which I enclosed with some scrap laying around. The left side of the enclosure is hinged in case I ever need to get in there to clean it out etc.
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Back on top, the upper branch travels in the joist space across the room. The drill press is right next to the drop you can see here. That same drop Y's through the wall to pickup the planer chute.

Note: I did leave a Y above the table saw and will test whether my DC can power a 2.5" hose AND the 4" under table pipe at the same time or not.
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The pipe across the room also serves the bandsaw in its new location. The assembly table used to butt against that wall, but is now next to the steps. This shortens the run to the bandsaw by about 10 feet. Similar to the table saw, I will test whether my DC can run a 4" pipe to the side of the bandsaw, AND a 2.5" hose at the blade.
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I had a misordered filter laying around. It's a really nice one, but shipping was too expensive to make it worth sending it back. So I rigged up a box fan filter. The box fan pulls very easily through the large pleats and really does help clear the haze out of the room. Clean air is pushed upwards through the joist space and back into the room.
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Well, it ain't pretty, but I think I'm heading in a direction. Hopefully the right direction, but we'll see once I can test with blast gates in about 2 weeks.

Thanks for reading, I love to hear from you guys.

[harry strasil]

In the FWIW Dept, My experience with setting up the movement of pet food thru a small plant via the use of air to push the product, short radius 90's are a NO/NO. Long Radius 90's and or 2 45's create less friction and increase flow. Most of the long radius 90's were fabricated with a square cross section and had replacable wear plates bolted to the back side of the main part of the elbow, but I don't see that as a need in your case with the limited amount of product or swarf that you will be creating.
Just my 3¢ worth.

[Bob Riefer]

Hey Harry,
Thanks for dropping in.

I write a lot, so you may have missed this comment that I had hidden in there:


Also, because of my shop's shape, rafter alignment, etc., there are some 90 degree bends being used. I know, not optimal, but at a certain point, you just need to say to yourself: "self... stop reading the overwhelming amounts of information out there, and just try it". So, once I get the gates in and can really test, we'll see if performance is satisfactory or not. Honestly, based on far worse solutions that I've witnessed working just fine, I have a feeling I'll be happy with my setup.



In other words... Yeah, I'm sure you're right about the 90's, others are right about 6" vs. 4" PVC, and a kazillion other things that can be done perfectly in building a shop... Then again, I've seen a lot worse working great (for example, I was in a guy's shop where he was running 40 feet of flex without issue), so we'll just have to see how it goes once the system is in use and make improvements as needed. :)

[harry strasil]

I am sorry I made it so you misunderstood, I should have said if you have problems with that many 90's, it easy to replace them with 2 45's with a short piece of tube between them if you have problems. I can't remember my plumbing references, but in plumbing as far as flow goes, a certain amount of short radius 90's in a line is considered a plug. FWIW

[Bob Riefer]

Thanks Harry, I'll definitely keep that in mind once testing starts. I have a great supply house right next to my office, so it's easy to pickup components as needed.

[Bob Vallaster]

Bob,
Sparkplug = energizer bunny = hard charger. You get the idea.

BobV

[Bob Riefer]

Ahhh funny because I feel so exhausted from all the work :)

[Bob Riefer]

Not much of an update, but in the spirit of keeping a log of projects (and mini-projects) finished..

It's become a challenge for me to complete as many projects using leftover scrap that I have laying around. I started with A LOT of scrap, but the pile is finally starting to dwindle. The side bonus of this approach is that it enables me to have one list of "projects I can complete for free from stuff I have laying around" in addition to a list of "need to buy stuff to do the project". Right now, between paychecks, the choice is to do nothing, or work through the free projects list.

Anyways, I got the hood for the miter saw built last night. The hood doesn't interfere with the saw regardless of which angle you're cutting. I think I'll line it with some laminate (or similar) and funnel all the dust to the hole behind the saw, but I'll test it first once the blast gates arrive in two weeks.

(please don't laugh at my miter fence in this picture, it's all I could afford for now, but it's been working great so far)


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[Dave Gaul]

(please don't laugh at my miter fence in this picture, it's all I could afford for now, but it's been working great so far)


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Laugh? Are you kidding Bob? I think it's great! If it works, who cares what it's made of or what it looks like! I just wish I had the space for something like that. Looks like you put a lot of work into that set up, I'd keep it that way, maybe paint or finish the fence, or even laminate it with something.. microdot formica would be cool!

[Bob Riefer]

Hey Dave - Geez, I'm sorry, I didn't see your reply until just now! My bad. I really appreciate the comment. The fence is working just ehhhhh now that I've had it in use a lot. The fact that the 2x4's are a little bowed makes precision cutting tough. However, I feel that most precision cuts will ultimately occur on the table saw, so perhaps the setup will be just fine at the end of the day. I'm going to live with it a bit longer.

--------


well, in the spirit of another update that isn't very meaty...

Since I last posted, my kitchen got flooded, so I needed to completely gut it and rebuild it. I did all of the work myself, except for granite install and laying the finished floor material, and did manage to design and build two pieces of furniture for the space, but I wouldn't consider these pieces to be "woodworking" per se, as they're built in a construction style, and I purchased the top already built.

But anyways, here's the kitchen, and the island/mini-island:
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So with that finished now, I can get back to business in the shop (side note: having the shop to do lots of this work was AWESOME). I found minimal funds, so my blast gates and flex duct for the DC system are on the way, as are the jointer knives that I need in order to be able to use the small 6" delta jointer that I purchased awhile back. I tell you what, it's been killer having all the piping and the thien baffle finished for 2 months, and not being able to use the system!!! Can't wait!

I also met (through this site) an experienced woodworker in Horsham that very graciously answered 2 hours worth of my questions at his shop recently. He may be visiting my shop next weekend, and the plan is to learn more about dialing in each piece of equipment and discuss shop flow etc.

With all that done, I'll go about building 10-12 adirondak chairs for our yard and porch. We have a big yard and use various spots differently, so having many chairs is not only good practice for me, but also useful. I'll be using white cedar from the local sawmill and I figure by the end of building all those chairs, I'll have a pretty good feel for taking rough lumber through to a finished project. And then I plan to up the difficulty level on the next projects after that.

Thanks for reading :)

[Homer Faucett]

Bob,

It was good to see you post here again. I'm sorry to hear about the kitchen flood, but you did a great job in the restoration. I did a similar gut and rebuild in my kitchen, and had to do some structural repairs to the house when I pulled out the walls--not unlike your barn repairs (the joys of owning houses over a century old).

Once you get the knack of using your jointer, you can tame the bow right out of those miter saw fence 2x4's. I had that same miter saw a few years back, and with a good fence, you can expect better results in cross-cuts than what you get on your table saws. If you can find a wicked deal on a 1950's Dewalt radial arm saw, I think you'll find it even more versatile than your miter saw . . . but I'm getting off-topic.

Good luck, and keep plugging along! If you find yourself driving near Indianapolis, I'd be more than happy supplying you with some more free lumber, including some spalted maple from a tree I cut down here on the property and had milled up with a Woodmizer. The catch is that you'd have to stay for dinner and help me kill a few beers.

[Bob Riefer]

Hey Homer, Thanks for commenting :) The flood did indeed suck, but we did get some insurance money which helped (but we were still out of pocket some). Luckily, I have 10 years worth of projects pre-planned (call me obsessive), so designing the room and setting the project plan was fast and easy in this case. Side note, I did the whole project for about $11K start to finish, and that includes removing a fireplace, rebuilding the wall, levelling and rebuilding the subfloor, rerunning all new electrical and plumbing etc... Not too bad in this day and age of uber expensive kitchens! Of course, being able to build the two islands for about $500 total helped.

If I'm ever through your way, you got it! If there's one thing I KNOW I'm good at, it's eatin' and knocking back a cold one with a new friend! Cheers!

[Dave Gaul]

Don't sweat it Bob! Sorry to hear about the flood damage, but nice work on the restore! Love that island.

[Bob Riefer]

Thanks Dave! The island (and mini-island) are NOT fine woodworking by any means, but they're built like tanks, they fit the 1902 farmhouse style, and are just real functional. But it makes me feel good about it that woodworkers approve anyways :)

[Bob Riefer]

FINALLY got my blast gates and flex hose yesterday. So I stayed up til midnight installing everything because I just HAD TO test the damn system finally! ha ha. I'm paying for it today, but am also very satisfied because the system works great.

So, to recap.. 4" PVC run around the shop in probably a not-perfectly-optimized layout (i.e. due to obstacles, I had some longer runs than I'd like... and I used some 90 bends) powered by a 2 hp harbor freight blower. I built the thien baffle right into the ring that comes with the DC, and exhaust directly outside.

My longest run is my bandsaw. I made a bunch of test cuts and it's keeping things MUCH cleaner at that station. (edit: the DC is not powerful enough to run both the 2.5" hose AND the 4" hose, so don't be mislead by my picture... it was worth a try, but more power is needed to run both hoses simultaneously)

2nd longest run is my drill press and planer area. At the drill press, I tried a handful of marble sized pieces and was happy to hear them rattle all the way home and land in my collection container. I planed some poplar a couple passes and could see the dust go bye bye through a small length of clear flex pipe.

Table saw results were hard to gauge.. It's my shortest and best optimized run, but it's a cabinet saw where most of the dust was falling properly into the cabinet anyways. I did notice that my rooster tail of dust on the front of my shirt is no longer present - with the saw off, and DC on, I can feel suction through the insert plate and through the various vents on the base of the saw, so I think I'm in good shape. Inside the cabinet, I also have a ramp installed that funnels the dust towards the collection pipe.

Miter saw is SO MUCH BETTER. That's my second best optimized run. And also probably my messiest machine. I built a hood around the saw, and have the pipe installed behind the saw such that gravity and suction work together. It's such a big difference.

Anyways, YAY!


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[Joe A Faulkner]

Sounds as if you have made great progress on controlling the dust. It is encouraging, exciting and even motivating to see your progress. I have a 6" system using an old Grizzly 2 HP unit with a Wynn Filter, but I haven't made nearly your progress in getting things plumbed.

[Bob Riefer]

Hey Joe, Thanks for dropping in :)

Well, I'll admit that I plumbed the easiest possible way in order to get started. I can already see modifications that I can make to improve performance, but it's "good enough" for me to finally get started really making furniture. I'll be making about a dozen adirondack chairs this spring (and perhaps summer depending on how long it takes me!).

Two nights ago, I made a bunny pen for the wife's/kids' latest acquisition, and at the end of lots of cuttings and drilling had just the smallest amount of cleanup to do - before my DC system was setup, I would have been knee deep in dust! So I'll call that a win :)

[Bob Riefer]

I got my first batch of rough lumber this weekend. For those of you that have been keeping up with my crazy tail, you'll know that in January 2009, before ever woodworking in any capacity at all, I started rebuilding the barn so that I could become a woodworker. Yeah, that's nuts, I know. Anyways, my point is that this first visit to the sawmill was a long time coming. It was great. The out buildings, the 6 foot (just guessing) sawmill blade, stacks and stacks of different species of woods, talking to the sawyer and his team, seeing their 16 inch jointer and 36 inch planer (YIKES)... Picking through stacks to find boards that would suit my needs. Warming up next to their fire. And then sipping my coffee on the way home, with a load of boards in the back of the truck. Sigh... It was a long time coming, but here I was, on the trip to making furniture. If you've ever had a goal that took so long to even start the actual journey, you'll understand the feeling of satisfaction this weekend.

Anyways, I bought enough white oak to make 1 adirondack chair. This is a relatively simple project that could be completed without the nice shop that I have put together, but since I'm working the lumber from the rough, and since I'm just learning my shop flow, and since we'll use the heck out of adirondack chairs, it's a great confidence builder. A beginner project. I chose white oak because, quite frankly, it was the only weather tolerant wood the sawmill happened to have in stock on this particular visit. I paid $65 cash for the lumber which amounted to about $2.50 per board foot.

So, I get home and my wife had set it up that I'd have several alone hours to work in the shop while she took the kids to a birthday party. She understood how important this was to me. I layout the boards and chalk each one up to indicate which component it will become. I rough cut to lenght, leaving a few extra inches on each piece so that I can fine tune later in the process. A few pieces are too wide for face jointing on my jointer so I edge joint them, rip them to width, and then face joint all the boards.

With one side flat, I can now plane to thickness. And don't ya know, the darn planer has something wrong with the setup. It's incapable of taking any material off, and is popping it's own safety on multiple boards. What's worse, it's making a groove down each board.

So, arrrrrgh, I had to stop for the day with nearly prepared lumber just staring at me. I'll trouble shoot the planer issue this week (knives are brand new, so it must be an alignment or setup issue of some sort.. perhaps they're even in backwards) and continue on the journey.

The good news is that I was confidently working through the process. I knew what to do, the shop workflow was comfortable, the dust collector worked great. So, this'll just be another learning opportunity along the path to becoming a woodworker.

(side note: tonight I'm picking up an upgrade to my jointer as well. My existing Delta proved serviceable, but this other machine will save me from having to really make an expensive upgrade for a few years)

[Bob Riefer]

Well, the Ridgid jointer came home with me last night. The seller was a really nice family man the next town over. He's actually the fire chief for that township, and an electrician for a living. Anyways, we got along very nicely and the machine was in great shape (flat tables, coplanar, sharp knives, 90 degree fence, belt in good shape etc.) so making the deal was a low stress event. Together, we put the jointer in my truck and strapped it in for the 10 minute drive home.

When I got home, I removed surface rust and cleaned and waxed the tables and fence. Cleaned the cutter head and anywhere else I could easily reach (and peered into other areas to determine that it wasn't worth ripping it all apart for an internal cleaning at this time). I hooked it up to my dust collection system without incident.

I tell you what, this thing is such a night and day difference compared to the Delta jointer I was previously using. The Delta was alright, but this thing is amazing in comparison. And just having the much beefier fence is a big win alone. So, for $220 spent, I'm very happy overall.


Unfortunately, there's a broken part in the planer that I have to replace. Nothing major, but yet another setback in my start to furniture making. How frustrating. Plus the Flyers lost in overtime.

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[Bob Riefer]

I've jointed, planed, and cut a lot in the last few days, so I can finally do a full report on how my dust collection system is doing.

It's a 2 hp harbor freight unit, 4" PVC around the shop, short runs are 10-15 feet, long runs are 30 feet, harbor freight blast gates at each machine, harbor freight clear flex hose in very short lengths for machines that needed to be able to swivel/move, thien baffle, direct exhaust outside.

In short, I'm very happy. I have collected a full bag's worth of shavings and dust, and have collected about a dust pan's worth of debris off the floor when cleaning up afterwards. The Thien Baffle is seemingly doing its job nicely as the outside exhaust has barely the slightest evidence of very fine dust making it out there. My longest runs and my shortest runs are all sufficient using the 4" pipe and imperfect pipe runs. I've been running my overhead box fan air filter when working, and using the respirator during especially messy work. Honestly, I'm not sure I'll see a need to improve the system all that much over time.

And on that note, changes/improvements I'll be making:
- Sucking through the bag works fine, but the skeleton that keeps the bag open is taking a beating. I'm switching back to a hard canister. Oh well. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

- There are a couple easy-to-change 90 degree bends that I'll be swapping for 45's.

- I will be extending the port on the back of my miter saw to aim the burst of dust down to the collection tube. Although the explosion of dust is mostly caught by the hood and DC system already, this change would be beneficial in not letting it blow up so much in the first place.

[Bob Riefer]

I had time to swap out the bag for a canister last night.

Rob Cunningham (frequent poster on this board) employed a window in a fiber/cardboard drum as his catch bin, so I stole that idea. Got a free bin from a local plastics molding company.

I thought through about a dozen ways to make the connection between the DC ring (where my baffle is installed) and the drum. I ultimately decided to use a diaphragm similar to what you'd see in a car engine.

A length of rubber (leftover pond liner, but you could use inner tube or rubber flashing) was wrapped and strapped around the DC ring, leaving about an 8 inch "skirt" hanging below. When it's time to install the drum, I hike up the skirt portion, slide the drum in, and pull the skirt down around the top of the drum. It takes about 30 seconds to do so. The connection is so tight, that no strapping is needed on the drum side of the equation.

Works terrific. Tested about 10 dustpans full of various types of dust and chips, and was able to watch the cyclonic action through the plexiglass window in the drum. We were not able to even detect the slightest dust in the exhaust vent to outside.

As usual, I did not go for "pretty" with this solution, but I hope you find it useful anyways.

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[Bob Riefer]

My first project (adirondack chair out of rough cut white oak) is finally gaining some ground. All boards are milled and cut to shape. I will be cleaning up all shape cuts with my router and pattern bit (tracing my templates for consistency) and then rounding over edges. Should be done with this first one soon, then I'll hone my process, adjust the chair as needed, and build a bunch more to use in the yard and to get practice.

Dust collector continues to please.

Here, I'm dry fitting some of the parts to see if I'm about right so far. (so far so good)

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[Bob Riefer]

Holy cow I'm slow :)

BUT, I finally finished my first piece of furniture!!!!

To recap, I used rough sawn white oak to build Norm's adirondack chair. I made templates first so that I can duplicate the process.

Errors / Lessons learned:
- Made my templates with scrap OSB... too rough for good template routing.. redo with MDF as the template material.
- Cut list wasn't organized for optimal repeatability. Reworked for next time around.
- Being able to access only one side of my assembly table is a pain. Move bandsaw so that I can bring the assembly table away from the wall.
- Too aggressive with drill press and conter bore bit = chip out. Only screwed that up once.
- A router table will be useful for all the routing I did, and will collect the mess more easily.
- I'll bring the back rest forward about 1 degree on future editions, and will also make the back rest pieces about 2 inches taller.
- crappy sand paper and white oak don't mix
- the time spent making jigs throughout the process was well worth it
- leave the back support cross piece as thick as you can (a full inch is good) and leave it a bit long. square up the arms first, clamp the support piece in place, and trace the exact cutoff. this will be more precise and easier to assemble.
- glue and screw was well worth it

Anyways, here she is. No finish, it'll just age.

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[Rob Cunningham]

Looks really good Bob.
I hope you got to sit out in the 100+ degree weather we just had and enjoy a cold one in your new chair.

[Bob Riefer]

Thanks Rob! :) I did have a beer or five sitting there marvelling at my flawed masterpiece! lol

I tell you what, I'll get another one finished so that both of us have a place to sit next time you come over. Thanks again for answering all my questions each week!

[Bob Riefer]

Well, I finally took everyone's advice to switch out the 90 degree bends in my DC layout and replace them with 45's. I only finished 1/2 the effort so far, but in testing my furthest (worst) run, the improvement is obvious. I mean, you can't mistake the improvement at all. I'm impressed. And I admit: I was an idiot to not listen to y'all in the first place. There, I took my medicine.

[Bob Riefer]

Nearly done reworking my DC piping. I'm really glad I'm doing this, but man is it a pain in the butt. Pics after this weekend hopefully.

--
IN OTHER NEWS
I guess it's time to tell y'all about my latest venture. I am finally leaving corporate america, sort of. I understand the need for corporate work, and respect those that can do the work, but after 13 years of climbing the ladder nicely, it became very apparent that this is not the right fit for my personality and interests.

So, awhile back I had several companies come out to look at siding my old barn. I was interested in steel siding like you see on pole barns. The various companies came and went. Then, Tom, owner of Kistler Buildings (http://www.kistlerbuildings.com), came out. Immediately I could see the difference in professionalism. We spent 2 hours talking. He toured my barn and checked out my woodworking shop setup. When he left, I told my wife "His bid will be double the next highest bid, and triple the lowest bid... and we'll save until we can afford it, because I KNOW they can do the work and will stand behind it."

A few weeks later, after much thought and discussion with the wife, I wrote Tom to tell him how impressed we were. I explained that I had saved my barn as a way to be more hands-on in life. Furniture making is also towards that pursuit. And I told him "Give me a job, I'll work for free, I'll job shadow, whatever it takes". And he did (although, thankfully he's paying me).

Even cooler, I'm working about 30 hours per week for them now, while holding down my existing 40 hour per week day job. Since we're a single income family (my wife is raising our small children) Kistler was agreeable to let me transition to the commission lifestyle over several months.

It's very busy for me right now, but boy am I loving it. The training is dizzying, but information really sticks when you're hungry for it. The customer consultations are amazing. Seeing properties, walking fields, helping them understand the process and possibilities, meeting neat people. It's great. I had resigned myself to a life of hating every day of work, and it's unbelievable to be on the way to being out of that problem.

Anyways, this is not in any way an advertisement to buy a building from me. It's just me celebrating and hoping for a few "cheers!" from my friends here at the creek.

[Mark Godlesky]

Congratulations on your transition. Life is too short to spend time doing something you don't like. I hope it works out well for you.

[Bob Riefer]

Thanks Mark. You're right on the money. Life IS too short for hating the work day each day. I've never experienced loving work until now, and it's a complete life changer. I just can't wait until I can drop the day work to focus entirely on the new gig.

-------

Finally finished the shop reorg.

- All DC pipe rerouted using 45's instead of 90's. (wow, significant difference!)
- New router table assembled and installed.
- Bandsaw moved.
- Assembly table location is now settled. I can walk around all 4 sides of the table. NOW it's time to build a proper table since I know where it will be, and what size will fit etc.

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[Carl Babel]

Bob,

Your saved barn / workshop / kitchen-rebuild / job-transition has been an impressive journey! Thanks for taking us along.

[Bob Riefer]

Thanks for commenting Carl! :)

----

Well, that rickety old plywood assembly table finally got replaced as of yesterday. Found a craigs list deal on an industrial 2" thick butcher block. Left most of it's character exactly as I found it, and just strengthened the steel legs and added a shelf underneath. Gave the top a coat of poly for good measure, and that is that. Will add a vice soon. A well spent $75 and 2 hours of effort.


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[Bob Riefer]

Well, it's been a long time. I've been busy. Two full time jobs at once is brutal. But we're getting there.

Designed and sold several buildings now, and my first is build-in-process. This one is a 30x50 building with full 2nd story appartment. Clear span floor joists ensure that the 1st story shop has no posts in the way. Wrap around porch covering and a back deck. Nice.

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I also installed a floating floor in my own barn's exercise room. 1x3 sleepers, with 3/4" foam insulation in between each spacer, all topped with 3/4" T&G plywood and some carpet. Really nice. I may just do the entire workshop in the same style at some point.

Also been rennovating the home still. Never ends.

As such, no woodworking lately. Makes me sad, but there's only so many minutes to go around.

[Bob Riefer]

Holiday Tour Time!!!!!!!!!

I recently responded to a craigslist ad and picked up some great clamps for a great price. I hit it off the the guy, so he called me awhile later basically giving away a sanding station and drill press and a cabinet with drawers full of stuff. This prompted a reorganization of the shop.

So, here's the latest tour of my modest little shop. It may not be much, but I love it just the same. ;)

Happy Holidays Sawmill Creek!
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[Bob Riefer]

Well, I started on my 2nd adirondack chair now. What a pleasant experience it has been, funny how having a small bit of experience improves the process so much!

Efficiencies learned and applied this time:
- The shop layout is so much better I can barely even put words to it. I never find myself doubling back or walking in circles. Just a smooth dance from process to process.
- I'm much better at preparing rough lumber to usable boards. Much much much better. I enjoy it actually.
- The new assembly table makes it very much easier to work. It's the right size, the right height, and has the right mass to it.
- Having the retractable air hose and electrical cord above my assembly table has come in handy several times already.
- I organized my cut list such that all same width cuts, and all same length cuts were grouped together. Way more accurate and faster as well.
- For pair-pieces (such as arm rests) I taped my two prepared boards together and cut them at once, then used the sanding station to true them up. Identical pieces, 1/2 the cutting time.
- I used my new router table for the first time. Wow, what a speed gainer! No clamping, no hassle. And, I have it hooked up to the dust collector and had nearly zero mess after LOTS of routing.

Ready for sanding, drilling, plug cutting, and assembly now! Start of lumber prep to this point took about 2.5 hours total.

White oak. I would post a picture, but I can't get the file size small enough to fit.

[Erich Weidner]

I just read this thread through from the beginning. An interesting shop story.
You have a nice photo history to go along with the memories. I would say I hope you enjoy the shop, but I can see that you already are. :)

[Bob Riefer]

Hey Erich, Thanks so much for commenting :) Yes, I'm enjoying the shop and the barn in general completely. I was told I was crazy for creating the shop before learning to woodwork, but that was the only logical way to do it in my mind. So, while the ramp up to being able to do any woodworking was slow, I now find that it's a pleasure to learn and work in there. When I woodwork, it relaxes me and sets my mood right.

[Bob Riefer]

Well, it's been a longggg time, but I "finished" the entire barn project and wanted to complete this thread for good measure.

Since I was last here, I finally had the barn sided by a company from Lancaster.
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That allowed me to then progress to building the rec room on the second story. I've done a lot of construction work by now, but this was my "thesis statement" for sure. The family has really been enjoying the space.

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And, after a few years of using the shop, I would say that the layout is one that I'm happy and productive with.

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I've built some simple things as small paying side jobs and for fun and a bunch of functional items for our own enjoyment. I also built a cherry coffee table starting with rough lumber, and am working on a box project as a wedding present. With construction behind me and a lot of skills learned along the way, I'm excited to advance my woodworking skills.

Thanks for reading,

Bob R.

[Steven Wayne]

Incredible transformation, Bob! Keep at it.

[Bob Riefer]

It was really fun to read this thread after all this time.

What struck me the most is: I was an idiot back then, most of the idiot decisions I made 10 years ago have been re-done since then.

(note to self... in 10 more years, you'll think the same things about your current self!)

In all this time, the barn has been totally finished inside and out, and my shop workflow has settled into a good place... same setup on that front for past 5 years or so. And, after we finished all the renovations at our house and ran out of things to build for our own use, I started a small side business this year that consistently has about 2 customer orders being worked on at any given time.

My favorite shop improvements since 2010 are:
- Added a mini-split so I can now cool the shop, and it helps boost the heat that was already in place
- Upgraded all DC runs to 6" pipe, built a new Thien top hat, and an exterior exhaust muffler
- Built a fastener station that is basically my own personal hardware store now
- Added a spray booth, and an off-grid utility sink for cleaning up equipment

Anyways, here's some pics :-)


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[Jim Becker]

That's a really beautiful end result, Bob! Thanks for preserving that history in our area while at the same time enriching your own life. BTW, I have zero regrets about adding the mini-split to my shop, too...it's a perfect solution for our area's climate and uber-conservative with power usage.