Hammer or rojek?

[Mark Woodmark]

I have narrowed my sliding table saw list down to the Rojek PK250A with upgrade on rip fence for $5360.00 delivered and the Hammer K3 Winner Comfort with the following options:

-Precision miter gauge indexing system
-Prep for dado
-Fine adj for rip fence
-Scoring blade
-Hammer will throw in Rip, Universal, and Dado blade
-51" sliding table (space issues)

The Hammer would be $7800.00 delivered. Rojek has no sort of indexing (stops) system for their miter gauge available but dado capacity is standard and arbor is 5/8" whereas Hammer is 1-1/4" arbor with two additional holes for pins. Thats way I talked them into free blades. If I could, I would like any input on either one of these saws since I am new to the slider thing and this is a huge investment for me. I do mostly solid wood medium size furiniture. Ocassionaly sheet goods, but not very often. See links below and thanks

http://www.rojekusa.com/PHP/pk250a.php

http://www.hammerusa.com/products_details.php?parent=18d9ac25e09da0a11dec&xat_code=309d91e0708d06fee837&region=us-us

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I looked at both and bought the Hammer B3 Winner.

Although you're looking at the 30mm arbour as a disadvantage, to me it was an advantage in stiffness for a 12" blade that could be almost 4" deep in a ripping cut.

The cost for 30mm tooling is only about $20 maximum more than a 5/8" diameter blade.

30mm is an international standard in tooling bore, and therefore opens up other vendors for your needs.

I liked the options on the Hammer better, as well as the greater support in North America, and the reputation for quality.

Have fun with whichever machine you select.

Regards, Rod.

[Thomas S Stockton]

I have a pk300 with a 6' slider that is about 10 years old. It is a serviceable saw but I would rate it as just OK. The biggest problem I have with it is that the whole arbor/trunnion assembly is fairly flexible to the point that you can see it move back and forth while raising the blade.
Tech mark's comment was it has a very rigid assembly and the saw was out of warranty so I've lived with it and it really doesn't effect the cut that much but if a blade is slightly dull it will. I don't want to slam tech-mark because on other things they went out of their way to help.
The high points are the sliding table is a nice design ( I have the format style), the rip fence works well and except for the problem I mentioned it has been trouble free except for minor adjustments you would expect to make now and then.
At the time I was shopping I looked at the Hammer and it had some drawbacks for me one was the rip fence was junk (they have since changed this) and they didn't make a cross cut bar for the slider that went out to 8'.
If I were to buy again I wouldn't get a Rojek and would look at Mini-max and Hammer but would probably buy a machine on the used market that came out of a small shop.
I wouldn't worry about the arbor size any good saw shop can machine your current blades to fit.
Tom

[Kevin Woodhead]

Mark,

I cannot comment on the Rojek, other than saying that I eliminated it when I shopped for a slider 4 years ago due to sub-par reviews. Then again, you may find some owners that swear by their Rojek machines.

I've used Altendorf, Holzher, and Martin sliders, a Bridgewood straight line rip saw and a dozen different cabinet and contractor saws in the course of my cabinetmaking career. When I decided to buy a saw for my home shop I ended up with the Hammer B3 winner/comfort, which is the same saw as you are looking at but with a longer table (and the shaper). It is not as refined or heavy duty as a full-fledged Felder, but then it is a hobbyist/smallshop saw whereas the Felders are designed to be used daily in commercial shop environments. That said, the Hammer is well constructed and FAR superior to a cabinet saw when sizing sheet goods, straightlining and crosscutting hardwoods IMHO.

Obviously you have to make a choice based on your own needs and budget, but here are a couple of suggestions:

Buy a longer table than 51". I don't believe you'll be able to crosscut a 48" sheet on that size table, at least not comfortably. One of the primary advantages of a Euro-slider is for sheet goods, so go with the 78" table at least. You will regret the short table.

That dado and blade combo is worth ~$900, so nice job on negotiating that. Why not ask for some outfeed and extension tables and maybe an in-person setup while you're at it :cool:

As Rod said, it is easy to get your existing blades drilled for the 30mm arbor w/pins (try Forrest), and even easier to find new blades that will fit.

Kevin

[John Harden]

As the other said, ignore the 30mm arbor requirement of Hammer as its a non-issue. 30mm is much better than 5/8" and most of all is the reason that Felder uses the three hole arrangement. The two pins are for the electric brake. My blade stops cold about 2 seconds after I hit the off switch.

The only people who take issue with the three hole arrangement are competitors. Once you own the saw, you'll see its a non-issue. Forrest and other blade manufactures have the Felder blade pattern in stock and will drill the blades for you if you prefer their offerings over the Felder/Hammer blades.

Regards,

John

[Brad Shipton]

I too pretty much discounted the Rojek after reading some of the reviews. The Knapp machines and Minimax are good ones to consider also.

I agree with the others that the blade arbor issue is not a concern. Freud now sells blades with the Felder pin holes right from the factory. I did have a problem with one machine shop boring some of my Garniga blades, so I am kinda fussy where/how the boring is done now. One blade only fits one way, and another had to be returned and re-bored.

The felder dado blade is a wonderful tool, but it is pricey. If you buy a 30mm shaper bore, you can use this as a shaper cutter also, since that really what it is.

I would carefully consider your sheet good use and harwood projects before deciding upon the slider length. I am a fan of baltic birch, so I thought an 80" slider would be all I need (this was also pretty much the max machine I could afford), but boy would I like to have a 10' slider now. A 10' slider would be incredibly handy for straightlinining rough stock or cutting sheet goods. I did come up with a simple jig to straight line stock on my 80" slider, but the jig is kind of a pain to drag around and ruins the effectiveness of the DC setup. Another bonus of the extra length is you have some space to use either air clamp or the eccentric clamp to clamp your goods to the table.

Good luck
Brad

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Does the Hammer have a braking system when the off button is pushed (like John mentioned)? I'm just curious.

[Brad Shipton]

Steve, the Hammer does have a brake. As I understand, this is an EU safety regulation. I think the limit is 5 sec.

Brad

[Rick Lizek]

I'd look at the Grizzly sliders as well
http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-Sliding-Tablesaw-5HP-1-Phase/G0591
And the Kufo http://www.kufogroup.com/SK-250TS-A.htm
I've used SCMI, Minimax, Paolini, Griggio and Casadei sliders over the years and once you use one, you might be hooked. A cabinet saw is only half a saw in my opinion.
http://www.atlanticmach.com/saws/table-saws.html
The outrigger to support panels is a must

[Rye Crane]

Mark,

I owned a Rojek 5 function combo. For it's price it worked well, had a little problem holding it's settings but overall a ok unit. I now have a Mini Max Saw/Shaper and a Jointer/Planer. Big difference and I would't go back.

Rye Crane

[John Harden]

Mark,

I owned a Rojek 5 function combo. For it's price it worked well, had a little problem holding it's settings but overall a ok unit. I now have a Mini Max Saw/Shaper and a Jointer/Planer. Big difference and I would't go back.

Rye Crane

This is a good point. I also looked at the MM offerings. I own an MM20 bandsaw and it is top notch.

Ultimately, I decided on Felder, but you can't go wrong with MM.

I haven't followed this from the beginning, so I'm not sure if the OP considered MM or not. If he hasn't I'd recommend he check them out.

Regards,

John

[Mark Woodmark]

Let me explain how I got to Hammer and Rojek. I have looked at the Mini Max SC3W and the Kufo SK-250TS-A. Neither of them will accept Dado blades. This is important to me. Also I am just leary of the Kufos quality. Also looked at the Laguna Pro Series Slider. My problem with them is their reputation for poor service. Also I emailed Laguna with questions about this saw. After 8 days no response, but I am getting junk emails from them. I would love to include the Felder K500 with the group I have narrowed it down to, but to get one that doesnt even have all the options the Hammer does would cost me around $9500.00. So my list is narrowed to the Rojek and the Hammer. Lastly, I have a 20ft by 22ft workshop, so space is valuable. That is why I am looking at a 51in slider.

[Jim Becker]

Of the two, the Hammer is going to be the better tool in quality and engineering, IMHO. Felder is a top notch company and they put a lot of stuff from their more expensive lines into the Hammer for a reasonable price. It's too bad that the SC3W can't accept a dado...did you confirm that with MM? My S315WS does and the SC4W does.

[Mark Woodmark]

Of the two, the Hammer is going to be the better tool in quality and engineering, IMHO. Felder is a top notch company and they put a lot of stuff from their more expensive lines into the Hammer for a reasonable price. It's too bad that the SC3W can't accept a dado...did you confirm that with MM? My S315WS does and the SC4W does.

I have talked to Mini Max. They dont offer any kind of dado option on the SC3W. I was strongly looking at this saw in the beginning, until I found that out.

[Paul B. Cresti]

There are many ways to dado....router with guide, router table, etc. I would not let that drive you into choosing one particular saw over another. Pick the best SAW you can afford