Jim Koepke, please help

[Harlan Barnhart]

I don't wish to add my troubles to Mr. Koepke's tutorial on threading cast plane soles but I have a similar problem. A while back I ebayed a nice looking #112. One problem, the threads at the base of the tote had been stripped, oversized to accept a 1/4" by 20 threaded rod, and mostly stripped again. Picking it up two or three times caused the tote to become loose again. So now I have an over sized, stripped out hole, an incorrect threaded rod with a bored out brass retainer nut on top.

Should I go back to the original thread size or try to work with the 1/4" by 20? Has anyone used a helicoil for this application? Will epoxy/JB weld be strong enough to fill an oversized hole if I go back to the original threads?

-Harlan

[Jim Koepke]

I would be more inclined to try to use JB Weld to hold a threaded insert.

With a helicoil, you need to tap the hole to take the outside threads. The inside forms threads to be used hold the original item. I am not sure if you could find a helicoil with 12-20 threads.

A threaded insert would also be difficult to find this size, but it would be possible to make one. With a drill press and a tap a person could make one of these a little longer than needed. The extra could be put to use on the plane to add an extra 1/8" or so.

You would need to find a replacement bolt and nut. These are often listed on ebay. They are also sold by many of the plane dealers like Bob Kaune, Walt at Brass City Record and Sandy at Sandy's Loot among others.

Harry may have other ideas as he is much better at metal work than me. He actually knows what he is doing from training and practice. I am good old trial and error.

Johnny Kleso may also have a solution if he still checks in here. He can be reached at Rexmill.com.

Hope this helps and keep us up on how this comes out.

jim

[James Taglienti]

I wonder if there is a way to do it without tapping the JB weld... IE Fill the hole with the epoxy and then insert the rod with handle attached and clamp it in place so it cures at the correct angle... you could lubricate the threads on the rod with a thin coat of graphite or grease so it would come loose of the cured JB weld... then you'd have a perfect match with no tapping needed!

[Jim Koepke]

I wonder if there is a way to do it without tapping the JB weld... IE Fill the hole with the epoxy and then insert the rod with handle attached and clamp it in place so it cures at the correct angle... you could lubricate the threads on the rod with a thin coat of graphite or grease so it would come loose of the cured JB weld... then you'd have a perfect match with no tapping needed!

That might work, but since Harlan has an enlarged bore, my thought was to get a bit of real metal in there to get back to the correct size rod.

jim

[Harlan Barnhart]

James, we must think alike because I considered trying that but thought some additional input might be in order.

Jim, I don't have a drill press so I probably shouldn't consider making a threaded insert. Do you know of any source for such things? I might be interested in a 1/4" by 20 insert if nothing else is available.

[Jim Koepke]

PM will be sent.

jim

[harry strasil]

Locktite made a product available at automotive stores, Stripped Thread Repair Kit, part # 81668. its a two part epoxy with a release agent if I remember right.

[Jim Koepke]

I wonder if that would be good for gap filling?

I am going to have to look for that next time I am in an auto parts store.

jim

[Jim Koepke]

Harry,

Glad you looked in on this.

What do you think of the home made insert route?

Maybe some of the Locktite Stripped Thread Repair product would be a good choice to hold the insert in place.

jim

[harry strasil]

I would just try the locktite product, I have never used it, but some friends had good results with it.

If I was going to use an insert, I would make it from the threaded end of a bolt and soft solder it in place using 40/60 acid core solder for a good tinning and 95/5 for the finish bond.

[harry strasil]

It can be used with what he has now, the 1/4 inch screw, this stuff just makes it so it can be taken apart if need be.

[James Taglienti]

I don't know if it's just me but my 112 seems to take a LOT of effort on all but a super fine shaving... way more than a normal plane... i am always afraid of breaking the tote and i might just switch it with one of my bad ones just to be safe. sometimes i'm surprised that it doesnt snap. just a thought as you consider your options, i would suggest something that is going to be very strong- it would be a disaster if you were to fling the plane across the shop (like my wife did with my bullnose the other day, thank god it landed in the firewood) or worse yet have the tote pop out and you wind up punching the back of the scraper card and holder. ouch.

[Jim Koepke]

I would be very hesitant to allow anyone who feels a need to throw things in to my shop. Especially if they aim for me.

Not knowing what Harlan has available on his own or through a network of friends, my thoughts were to produce a good fix as easily as possible.

With an original tote rod, there would be more flex in the rod than with a 1/4" rod. If the rod is flexing, then the threads in the hole are taking less of a beating.

If a torch and solder are available, then that would be a good solid way to go. Kind of like the original metal worker's glue.

Before repairing the #4 in my recent post, a #5-1/2 was repaired the same way. It has been used for shooting and planing for over a year now without any apparent degradation. Of course, the #5-1/2 does have a second screw holding the tote.

jim

[harry strasil]

its a scraper plane, its only supposed to take fine shavings, if you want thicker shavings switch to a regular plane.

[Jim Koepke]

Should have known a 1/4 inch bolt is too small to drill and tap for a 12-20.

Now I have experience I didn't have this morning.

jim

[harry strasil]

#12 = .21576 "

[george wilson]

Could the hole be drilled and tapped for a larger short stud,and then tap the larger stud to the correct smaller size? I don't mess with Stanleys much,so I am not sure how large the cast boss for the thread is.

[Harlan Barnhart]

Has anyone used a helicoil for this type of problem. It seems simpler than making an oversize stud to drill out and tap.

[Jim Koepke]

I am not sure you could find a helicoil of the right size for the tote bolt.

As Harry points out, there is only about 0.004 difference in the size from 1/4" shaft to a #12 shaft.

The best bet may be to figure out what the best repair material would be and then either tap it for the rod you have or obtain a new original rod and taps and attempt to repair it for that.

My choice is to try and change it as little as possible from the original. In your case, it is a little late for that and may cost a lot more to get back to that point.

Of course, if you do not already have the taps for the 1/4" work then it might not be that bad.

BTW, Victor Machinery Exchange is in Brooklyn. That is not too far from you if you want to buy the tooling to do it your self.

If you decide to find someone to do the machining for you, make sure they understand the bolt comes out at an angle and that it does not get drilled through the bottom of the base. I have seen people who were very assuring about knowing what they were doing prove that they in fact did not know what they were doing and leave a mess in their wake.

jim

[Kent A Bathurst]

Jim - maybe change your avatar to this??

Help me, Obi-wan Kanobe.........

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Vp3m183bZsQ/SZAsL0hcPDI/AAAAAAAAAA8/S-YGT9OYDy4/s400/Obi+Wan+Kenobi+01+Large.JPG

[Harlan Barnhart]

...My choice is to try and change it as little as possible from the original. In your case, it is a little late for that and may cost a lot more to get back to that point...

You are probably right. For a few extra dollars it would feel nice to have it restored to as original as possible.



...If you decide to find someone to do the machining for you, make sure they understand the bolt comes out at an angle and that it does not get drilled through the bottom of the base...

Indeed. I don't fancy the idea of a drilling through, it just wouldn't be right.

[harry strasil]

it's early Jim, decimals are hard to type in the right place when it's early, .040"

[harry strasil]

just get the locktite product and use the 1/4 in bolt that was in it, and be done with it. quite a few could have been repaired in time frame we have been typing about it. (rant) SORRY, While I was a practizing smith, I happened to visit several other smiths who talked about how to fix something 10 times longer than it would have actually taken to do the job. Just how I was taught by my father, get it done and out the door and the cash in the till, and the customer is happy about the quick turnaround.

Jr.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim - maybe change your avatar to this??

Help me, Obi-wan Kanobe.........

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Vp3m183bZsQ/SZAsL0hcPDI/AAAAAAAAAA8/S-YGT9OYDy4/s400/Obi+Wan+Kenobi+01+Large.JPG

LOL!

Thanks for the laughs, that will have me smiling all day.

jim

[Jim Koepke]

While I was a practizing smith, I happened to visit several other smiths who talked about how to fix something 10 times longer than it would have actually taken to do the job.
Jr.


Every trade has its philosophers. I used to know a guy who called it mental masturbation.

jim