I am looking for a new engraving machine...any advice?

[Tim Morton]

Let me start by saying i know next to nothing about engraving.I took a job managing a shop that does graphic design, signmaking, large format printing and short run printing...all of what i know a lot about. But we also have a little epilog TT24 that gets alot of use engraving wood plaques...rowmark plastics and some glass. Nothing very complicated but we do enough to make it a drag on labor here. This thing is slooowwwwwww.:mad:

So I am doing capital budgets and i have been asked this year to focus on efficiency and trying to cut labor expense.

So could you recommend a machine similar in footprint to the epilog TT and would be in the under 20grand price range. Right now i am limited to 12"x24" 1/4" sheets and going bigger than that is not a must....i just want to go faster.

[Larry Bratton]

Power = Speed. You didn't say what wattage the machine you have is. If I were in the market again, I would look at an Epilog Helix with at least 60 watts. Don't know the cost though, but it would probably be in that range. Epilog I have has been great and their tech support is fantastic.

[Dan Hintz]

If you're doing raster work (I assume) and speed is what you're after, I would look at the Trotec Speedy 300... getting it for <$20k will depend on your chosen wattage (which will also have an affect on how well you can use that speed), but those machines are typically about twice as fast as most of the others talked about here.

[Tim Morton]

Thanks...i believe the laser i have now is 30 or 35 watts....its about 6 years old, and at minimum it needs to be replaced. It seems to be limping along...and i need to put a fan in front of the unit during large runs because it will over heat and just stop engraving.

We do a mixture of work....where we seem to bog down the most is engraving small signs for the condo units. Like if we need a "close windows before checking out" we have hundreds of units and they each need one. And that can take me 4 days to cut 300 3" x 4" signs. We engraved them and then have the laser cut them out as well.:(

[Mike Null]

The fastest machine out there is the Trotec Speedy 300 as Dan says but Larry's also correct when he says power equals speed.

I have a Speedy 300, which I love, but it's a 45 watt machine. To really take advantage of its maximum raster speed you need higher wattage. The raster speed of 140 IPS is only useful if you have enough power to allow using 100% speed. (budget got in my way of buying more)

For the type of work I do (mostly plastics) I've calculated that 75 watts would permit the best combination of power and speed on this machine. Nevertheless, it is still a faster machine than others on the market.

(that 3" x 4" sign job could easily be knocked out in one day with my machine, assuming you're using plastic or wood not thicker than 1/4")

[Tim Morton]

Thanks i will put the speedy 300 and the Helix24 in the budget....its stil in the beginning stages...so i will have a few months to do the research and pick the right laser.

Thanks again..and i am sure more questions will follow.

[Rodne Gold]

Tim, if you are looking at a 20k machine , why not look at a CnC overhead router or the like for those small signs , a decent machine will chomp thru those in short time and cut em out with a bevel too. You already have a laser - why not open yourself up to untapped markets.(assuming you dont have one of em)
It will also be a big production tool in the signage market.
Will take up a bit of space tho , "small" examples are 4ft x 4ft , you also get cheaper and lighter and smaller models but they arent really heavy duty.

[Viktor Voroncov]

Rodne, why you have 6 GCC lasers and do not advice GCC laser? Spirit GE is fast, big table :) Excellent choice and fit in budget!

[Tim Morton]

Tim, if you are looking at a 20k machine , why not look at a CnC overhead router or the like for those small signs , a decent machine will chomp thru those in short time and cut em out with a bevel too. You already have a laser - why not open yourself up to untapped markets.(assuming you dont have one of em)
It will also be a big production tool in the signage market.
Will take up a bit of space tho , "small" examples are 4ft x 4ft , you also get cheaper and lighter and smaller models but they arent really heavy duty.

I have a CNC overhead router...its in its own room in the back. I never considered it to be something to use to engrave plastic signs with. I use that primarily for wooden signs and building speaker boxes;)

[Rodne Gold]

Viktor , I like the GCC machines and think they offer more bang for the buck than others I have seen and they are very very fast - especially if you take thruput - IE from start to finish of the job.
I think they have some really nice features in their drivers too
I looked at what the poster really wants and his business model/environment and they seem to be into signage more than lasering. I , as a business owner, would really want machinery that compliments and adds to my existing product lines and would perhaps open bigger and more lucrative markets...their shop seems to be a one stop type operation according to the posts and If I were spending $20 000 , I would be hesitant to spend it on the same piece of gear to just get perhaps a faster turnaround time. Their laser is probably paid off and whatever it produces is sheer profit. Would the $20k spent be worthwile in that they could recover its costs by merely speeding up work?
If they had a flood of work for the laser , then my recomendation might be to buy another cheaper , possibly 2nd hand laser of the same type for 10k or less and instantly double the amt of work they can do.
I have discovered that 6 20-30w lasers can do far more than lests say 3 x 50w lasers with double the bed size.
Their main application seems rastering and not doing high power cutting , so in reality , power doesnt matter much , big bed size can mean you can do more in one go , but I have found big beds can also be a double edged sword in that alignment can be an issue etc - you can also ruin a much bigger piece of material :)
In analysing the jobs we do , I have found that 90% of em are using the upper 1/4 of our machines and very few actually require a huge bed size , multiples can be done in 2 smaller lots as quickly as one big plot.
Getting back to the CnC machines , the additional applications are endless , like cutting metal and plastic letters for really big signs , 3d carving, engraving both metals and plastics , the ability to cut and process non laserable items , the manufacturing of point of sale items , serius wood cutting, cutting metal and plastic blanks and so on , the sizes are MUCH bigger than a laser can manage as well , 1220 x 2440 (4x8) is close to 3 sq meter , a lot bigger than the 1/2 a sq m of the GCC laser.
I think the laser and an overhead router/engraver , combined with their printing is much more synergistic than just a faster laser. I have all these machines and know what we can do with the combo just in awards
EG the one I have posted, the base and the brass backing/starburst for the mask were produced and cut on the CNC , the mask was digitally printed and domed on vinyl via a large format print and cut machine and the perspex and black sub base were done on the laser. With the combo , there is almost nothing you can't do...

The fact they do large format printing means they have probably have a lot of corporate clients and thus have a market for more than small lasered pieces.
Im just reading into the info the poster wrote - maybe I'm wrong?

[Dee Gallo]

Rodney,

That award is gorgeous! I'm always impressed with the elegance of your designs, but this one is a stunner. Thanks for posting, even if it was just to illustrate a point. And a good point, too.

cheers, dee

[Viktor Voroncov]

Rodne, agree with you 100% ! Your job is perfect :) Unfortunately not many customers (at least here in crisis time :( ) can pay true price for items like your :(

[Tim Morton]

Ok ..some more info abou the "signshop at okemo".

This is indeed a one stop shop and I support 3 major ski mountains as well as 2 gold courses and the general public.
We do graphic design, on mountain signage, marketing and interoffice print on demand. In other words we are a very busy place day to day.

But we are not for profit....i do not bill out work that is done for any of the mountains or golf courses, and that is 90% of my work. I do a small amount of stuff for the outside world, but most of that is unsolicited. Friend of a friend type of stuff.

I would say currently the engraver makes up about 10% max of the work i do.....but everytime i have to do a job it takes more babysitting than any other work i do. I can design a brochure and print 2000 10 page folded and stitched books with less labor than i can produce 10 wooden ski race award plaques.

So i am looking for something that is reliable..easy to use pretty much frees up labor to do other things while it is running.

We have 3 people in this shop...one does pretty much graphic design and prepress 40 hours a week. One ( me) overseas and coordinates the design flow so as to maximize the use of the equipment and the remaining one person who is responsible for mounting and laminating prints...plus doing any cut vinyl work or laser engraving. I also do all the print work...paybills...answer phones ...order supplies...yell at people....general fun stuff like that.

So if he is babysitting an engraver all day for 10 awards....then there is rolls of adhesive vinyl printing that he is not able to be finishing.

Does that answer any questions?? So i agree..i don't need to spend 20grand on this..as I am also ordering a new laminator and a scoring/perf machine this year. I figure the laminator will be 8grand and the scoring machine 4grand.

Ideally i would love to find a slightly used epilog for 10grand that is a current production model like the helix24.
Does any of this help clear up what we do?:D

[Brian Robison]

Look at used lasers dot com

[Dee Gallo]

Tim,

Check with your local laser sellers to see if anyone has a demo they will sell. They are usually good and come with a warranty.

cheers, dee