need finish for high chair.

[jason lambert]

I am basically making a high chair for my daugher. It is in oak I need to finish it this weekend, wife is screaming she needs it. In any case I have a hvlp gun but it is about 20 deg out side so can't really spray. What is a easy finish that will hold up well? Or should I wate till a day I can use the gun and shoot laquire?

any good rub on finishes that will hold up well and be water and food/baby resistant.

[David Thompson 27577]

I am basically making a high chair for my daugher. It is in oak I need to finish it this weekend, wife is screaming she needs it. In any case I have a hvlp gun but it is about 20 deg out side so can't really spray. What is a easy finish that will hold up well? Or should I wate till a day I can use the gun and shoot laquire?

any good rub on finishes that will hold up well and be water and food/baby resistant.


I might think about spraying shellac, even in the cold (I've sprayed it outside as low as about 28 degrees, with success) . As you know, shellac's solvent is alcohol, and cold weather is not much of an issue. The bigger issue will probably be how to sand between coats, without loosing the feeling in your toes.

But if you must finish it inside, I'd suggest a water-based poly or brushing-lacquer. The water-based stuff is easier on the sinuses, and does a really good job.

[Scott Holmes]

Water-borne finishes are not a durable; nor are they as water/baby food proof as oil based varnish or shellac.

[Chris Friesen]

Water-borne finishes are not a durable; nor are they as water/baby food proof as oil based varnish or shellac.

I gotta take exception to that. First, shellac is not particularly durable. Second, you can get waterborne alkyd varnish which should be just as good as solvent-based. If that's not enough you can get waterborne pre-catalyzed conversion varnish.

[Howard Acheson]

Both lacquer and shellac are evaporative finishes as long as you are referring to the real solvent based products. Being evaporative, they are not materially affected by temperature. At most, temperatures below 30-40 degrees may cause doubling the drying time.

I've sprayed shellac at below 20 degrees without problem.

[jason lambert]

I can let it dry in the shop, and sand, fumes are not a big deal I can vent I just don't have an area to spray with out over spraying all my machines, motercycle, and everything else so I must spray outside. Although we got about 12" of snow today and it is still going so soon the doors will not open.

[Scott Holmes]

Chris,

MOST water-borne finishes, are coalescing finishes; they are not as water and water vapor proof as shellac. The water evaporated out before the coalescing of the finish, why can't in go back into the space it vacated? Also many household cleaners will damage the DIY water-bornes. Since the OP can't spray; the high end finishes you are talking about are not much of an option, are they?

There are shellac pieces in museums that are hundreds of years old...

Not durable?

Please explain why you say it's not durable...

[Lee Schierer]

Use Varathane Diamond floor finish. It is durable on floors and has held up well in a bathroom on a vanity I made. It is water based and is an easy finish to work with. The only problem is it is only available in gallons.

All finishes sold in the US are non-toxic once cured. Unless you allow the child to gnaw continuously on the chair there should be no risk of problems. Incidental food contact is not going to be a problem.

[Howard Acheson]

>>> All finishes sold in the US are non-toxic once cured.

True, but the key phrase is "when cured". The original poster said he needs to be finished this weekend. That does not give him time to let an oil based finish cure which will take 3 - 4 weeks.

On another point not directed to you, shellac does provide a good finish in many applications. But, one place where it is weak is as a finish that will need to be cleaned frequently. Certain cleaning products may contain ammonia or other chemicals that will dissolved dried shellac. For a high chair, which will be cleaned frequently, I would not use shellac. Lacquer is better but still not as good as an oil based varnish.

[Pete McMahon]

One other point about shellac, also not directed at you; a museum piece that has a shellac finish also has temperature and humidity control along with conservators that, for the most part, handle the furniture with white gloves.
Something with a baby in it will be anything but a controlled environment.

[David Thompson 27577]

I gotta take exception to that. First, shellac is not particularly durable.........

Sorry, but I don't agree on that point.

Many hardwood floors in homes built before WW2 were shellaced, not varnished. And the shellac held up at least as well as varnish.

Certainly I'll agree that shellac has its limitations -- and a high chair might well be one of them. But to label it as not durable?

[Scott Holmes]

I was commenting on Chris' statement that it is not durable; it lasted for 100's of years BEFORE it was in the museum. I've seen 200 year old floors where the shellac finish was still intact...

[Pete McMahon]

I wonder how old the finish is on that 200 year old floor. It is certainly not an original shellac surface especially at that age. Shellac was not even imported into this country in any quantity until 1820-1825. There are account books that record a furniture maker in Boston that acquired shellac around 1807 and couldn't even give it away. When the furniture makers did start using it I doubt it was used on a floor until the shipping costs were reduced and quantities increased further down the road.

The finishes that are even close to being hundreds of years old, and they are as rare as hens teeth, are fixed oil varnishes with copal or amber as the resin base. Of course many cleaners and polishes were applied over these varnishes and over time they have oxidized to the crusty coating so prized by collectors today. The other finish that stood the test of time, unless it was constantly abraded, was wax.

Shellac is a good durable coating and one of my favorite finishes, just not for a high chair that will be continually wet and constantly cleaned.

[Joe Sullivan]

Have to agree with Pete, who sounds like he knows something about the topic.

I personally have several hundred sq ft of shellac finished flooring which stands up quite well and is easy to repair when something goes wrong. However, we are careful about what we clean it with. Shellac does not hold up at all to anything with ammonia in it, be it a household spray cleaner or a wet diaper. Ammonia dissolves if, as does alcohol. According to US Forest Service lab tests, a good film thickness of shellac is one of the finishes most resistant to airborne water vapor. However, it does not do well with liquid water. It quickly gets milky or forms rings. the milkiness or rings can be made to go away pretty easily -- but for highchair use it would be a real pain.

A couple of years ago when I built oak counter tops for the kitchen, I used several coats of shellac, sanded back, to build up and fill the wood> However, I used a very hard and resistant varnish for a top coat. It has held up well to daily use by a family of six. It gets hit with all kinds of detergents and cleaners. All we do is re-wax it about once a quarter or before a party. The onlky thing is won't tolerate is heat.

The varnish I used was Behlens Rock Hard Table Top Finish, but there are other good ones out there.

[Scott Holmes]

Pete the floor I saw, was in Europe, and it was a 200 year old finish.

I agree, it's not an ideal finish for a highchair. I was pointing out the it is pretty durable. It gets a bad rap from many that know little about it some probably have never even used it...

[Pete McMahon]

Scott,

I hate to admit it but the Europeans always took finishing much more seriously. Look at some of the French pieces with Vernis Martin finishes. Magnificent!
May I ask what country you saw that floor? As you know all sorts of resins were added to varnish formulas. Some successfully some not. What type of wood was it? Elm per chance?
That leads to a philosophical question: why does everyone feel they need to completely re-write the finishing formulas?
I mean, it can't be a good finish unless you somehow alter it. I must add at least 1\3 BLO because that's what I've heard and of course there should be some polyurethane thrown in there too. Somewhat cynical I know but imagine just opening a can and using it according to directions. Heaven forbid!! That can't be right.....

What type of classes do you teach? Are they at a woodworking school and\or a tech school? There are not enough classes like yours I'm sure.
Sorry if this went off track from the OP it was not meant to be a hijack but a discussion.
Pete

[Henry Ambrose]

snipped......

That leads to a philosophical question: why does everyone feel they need to completely re-write the finishing formulas?
I mean, it can't be a good finish unless you somehow alter it. I must add at least 1\3 BLO because that's what I've heard and of course there should be some polyurethane thrown in there too. Somewhat cynical I know but imagine just opening a can and using it according to directions. Heaven forbid!! That can't be right.....

Pete

Pete, I wonder the same thing. I am amazed at the multi-step finishes, mixing and combining I see suggested here. Is it something to do with what's published in the latest woodworking magazine?

[travis howe]

Pudding?


Sorry...:D

[Pete McMahon]

Pete, I wonder the same thing. I am amazed at the multi-step finishes, mixing and combining I see suggested here. Is it something to do with what's published in the latest woodworking magazine?

Henry,
Multi step finishes are normal in production furniture as well as bench made pieces.Not sure if that is what you meant.
The mixing and guessing with all these blends amazes me too. Some of these mixtures were made popular by very prominent furniture makers over the years. Personally from a chemical standpoint I don't get adding BLO to something like spar varnish and then thinning it with turpentine or mineral spirits. All that does, in my mind, is take a fairly soft varnish, reduce the resin content, make it softer and slower drying. However just adding thinner to the same varnish makes sense if you want a wipe on.
On the other end of that spectrum, a lot do this and will absolutely swear by it. I think many like to say "this finish is my own formula" To each his own.
It's not a new phenomenon though and has gone on for centuries.

[Scott Holmes]

The shellac floor was in a small town in Germany. I was there in 2003 and don't remember the other details. (I've slept A LOT since then...)

I teach 4 different finishing classes at the Houston Woodcraft Stores and the Rockler store has asked me to do clinics at their store.

As for mixing stuff into your finishes... Oil/varnish blends are far more durable than any oil "only" finish; but looks like an oil finish for a much longer time. BLO or Pure Tung oil are not very good at protecting the wood from water or water vapor. They need a lot of attention to keep them looking good; eventually the oil only finishes will crystallize and need to be stripped; long before an oil/varnish finish will fail.

Watco and Minwax Tung oil finish are both oil/varnish blends. aka "Danish oil"
Neither have tung oil in them.

These are in-the-wood finishes (no film build) that are practically foolproof to apply. This is probably the most ugnificant reason for the popularity. No dust bunnies or specs of dust on the surface and nice satin / low gloss look. Making your own is MUCH cheaper than buying it premixed plus you can control which oil (I use BLO) which varnish and the ratios of these and the mineral spirits.


Varnish is a film forming finish; more durable; more waterproof.

[Pete McMahon]

Scott,
I can't say I've seen an oil finish crystallize unless you're talking about something quite old. As you said they are absolute simplicity to apply and maintain.
The oil varnish blends is where finishing becomes alchemy for some. If you want that close to the grain look, a varnish can simply be thinned and applied and still have the durability.
Making your own danish oil is a good point. Personally I'd just thin a varnish and do the the same thing.
Finishing is an interesting subject.