Replacing rotten studs

[Gregory Lyons]

I recently begun an extensive remodel of our master bathroom. During demolition, I discovered some rotten studs behind the wet wall of the shower. This was not a surprise as the shower curb failing is what prompted the project. The wall is the partition between the master bedroom & master bathroom. I don't believe that it is load-bearing, but I plan on replacing the studs one at a time regardless. Is there a way to do this without completely destroying the drywall on the bedroom side? I'd like to minimize the amount of repair that I need to do in the bedroom.

[Ellen Benkin]

Can you slide a recip saw blade between the drywall and the stud? Remember the drywall on the bedroom side is attached to those studs so you would have to reattach it when you replace the studs.

[Richard Dragin]

I think you'll spend more time trying to finesse those studs out than you would replacing the drywall on the other side. Put up a plastic barrier in the bedroom and demo the whole thing, just make sure it's not load bearing.

Not to mention that the old drywall might have mold from the water damage.

[David Thompson 27577]

I recently begun an extensive remodel of our master bathroom. During demolition, I discovered some rotten studs behind the wet wall of the shower. This was not a surprise as the shower curb failing is what prompted the project. The wall is the partition between the master bedroom & master bathroom. I don't believe that it is load-bearing, but I plan on replacing the studs one at a time regardless. Is there a way to do this without completely destroying the drywall on the bedroom side? I'd like to minimize the amount of repair that I need to do in the bedroom.

I've done this, with marginal success, a couple of times.

Use a reciprocater to cut the nails that go into the top plate, and the ones that go into the bottom plate.

Then, using your hands, rock the studd from side to side. You'll be pulling the nails/screws through the back side of the drywall.

Although that WILL leave nail holes to fill, it will probably do much less damage than trying to run the reciprocater down between the stud and the rock.

When you replace the stud, use nails (or beefy screws) to attach to the plates, and use adhesive to attach to the back side of the rock.

[Thomas Knapp]

If you twist the studs sideways and the pull you will take less drywall with the stud. Of course there will be holes where the screws or nails were. As mentioned in a previous answer you will have to fasten the drywall to the studs again. At best, you will only have to fill nail holes. But more repair may be needed.
Would you be comfortable treating the existing studs by spraying with bleach or other treatments and leaving them in place? You could add additional studs if you thought you needed more strength. What are you covering the wall inside the bathroom with, when done? Cement board is a better choice than drywall If the surface is covered by tile or a tub surround. Use water resistant drywall if drywall it must be.
Good Luck
Tom

[Thomas Knapp]

David explained the process better than I and he posted his answer while I was typing.

[Mark Neidinger]

Instead of a reciprocating saw, I would use something similar to a Fein Multimaster or Dremel Multimax. These tools would make the job of cutting those nails so much easier than a sawzall.

[Brian Tymchak]

I've done this, with marginal success, a couple of times.

Use a reciprocater to cut the nails that go into the top plate, and the ones that go into the bottom plate.

Then, using your hands, rock the studd from side to side. You'll be pulling the nails/screws through the back side of the drywall.

Although that WILL leave nail holes to fill, it will probably do much less damage than trying to run the reciprocater down between the stud and the rock.

When you replace the stud, use nails (or beefy screws) to attach to the plates, and use adhesive to attach to the back side of the rock.

At my previous house, a contractor did this very thing to replace rotten studs in the corner of my family room. Water had been leaking down that wall for years. They cut the studs and nails from the outside with a recip saw and rocked the studs out of the bay. I had minor patching of old and new drywall screws and painting to do on the inside wall. All in all, I was surprised at how little damage was done on the interior.

Brian

[Jim Dailey]

I just finished removing studs in a wall for a pocket door that had floor to ceiling cabinets on the other side. I only had two heads pop on the sheet rock side to fill.

I had been sweating this because removal of the cabinets was a MAJOR project. I had thought about the saws-all approach but I knew even with a fine tooth blade the reciprocal action of the blade would rip the nails thru. Plus the saws-all can't get parallel to the wall.

I instead used my single speed Fein Multimaster with a Dremel bladehe case . The bi-metal blade would only cut 1" deep but I was able to cut most of the studs from both sides or in the case of a plate or restricted area I plowed out a knotch so I could cut the extra 1/2".

You need a new tool. ;)

jim

[Don Jarvie]

+1 with Richard.

Rip it all out. Looking at the picture the drywall at the botton doesn't look to hot and if there is mold it needs to go.

Keep in mind this is a bedroom wall and you don't want to leave any crappy drywall there to breath in any mold, etc.

[Mike Cutler]

Gregory

I personally would pull it all out, but most of your damage is limited to the bottom 12"18".
If the wall is truly non load bearing a cripple joist could be made to go under the studs. It is possible to remove the bottom 12-18 inches and keep it supported with a plywood sheet during removal. Once the bottom is torn out a cripple joist could be slid underneath the studs and the studs reattached. The studs can also be sistered in place if done properly with no compromise in strength

Looking at your picture a second time makes me wonder that the rot may not be as bad as it looks. The mold is black which kind of indicates it may be a surface problem. The studs I've pulled that were truly rotted had a white mold. The black sort of cleaned up.
If you can push anail into the stud,it's definitely a probem, if you need a hammer may be not so much. The mold could be bleached and encapsulated if you eventually find the stud isn't compromised.

There's a lof of extra material there though. It looks as if someone couldn't quite measure where the base receptor and wall flanges were going to locate so the provided enough material for any eventuality

[Ed Peters]

How about just screwing replacement studs in beside the bad stuff. Screw in to the solid sections of the studs and in to the sill and cap plates.

I'm just saying..........

Ed

[Van Huskey]

Instead of a reciprocating saw, I would use something similar to a Fein Multimaster or Dremel Multimax. These tools would make the job of cutting those nails so much easier than a sawzall.


+1 If you don't have one and don't anticipate any future use get a HF version.

[Jason White]

Could you sister new 2x4's to the existing ones?

Jason


I recently begun an extensive remodel of our master bathroom. During demolition, I discovered some rotten studs behind the wet wall of the shower. This was not a surprise as the shower curb failing is what prompted the project. The wall is the partition between the master bedroom & master bathroom. I don't believe that it is load-bearing, but I plan on replacing the studs one at a time regardless. Is there a way to do this without completely destroying the drywall on the bedroom side? I'd like to minimize the amount of repair that I need to do in the bedroom.

[Gregory Lyons]

Wow! Lots of good responses, quick too. I love this place.

Excellent call on the multi-master tool (or equivalent). While I hadn't considered it for this application, it's perfect. I almost bought one a few weeks ago for a kitchen project and this gives me an excuse for a new tool (I'll print this for SWMBO).

The rot is limited to the lower 12" or so, but I'd feel more comfortable replacing the studs altogether; I only want to do this once. I will most likely patch lower portions of the drywall on the bedroom side, and the shower side will be durock (or similar concrete board) covered in travertine.

Thanks guys,

~g

[Lee Schierer]

From your photos it appears that the dry wall is not the water resistant type and you will again have problems with moisture from the other side. I would recommend replacing the dry wall with a water resistant material (green board or cement board) and putting up a poly film to protect the studs, load bearing or not.

[Gregory Lyons]

The drywall in the photo is on the bedroom side of the wall and is ~35 years old. With the exception of a few small spots adjacent to the rotten stud(s), it's in pretty good shape. While I will be using cement board on the shower side, I'm trying to avoid rebuilding the entire wall. I'll be happiest if I can get by with patching a few screw/nail holes along with the small moldy portion at the bottom.

I agree that the best method would be to replace the whole thing, the existing drywall has lasted a good long time without (much) ill effect. If it ain't broke...

I may go ahead and line the bedroom-side drywall with a vapor barrier under the replaced studs and behind the plumbing.

Thanks for your comments,

~g

[Myk Rian]

Instead of a reciprocating saw, I would use something similar to a Fein Multimaster or Dremel Multimax. These tools would make the job of cutting those nails so much easier than a sawzall.
The blades don't last worth a darn if you cut nails.

[Lee Schierer]

One thing that could be done is to sister a new 2 x 4 next to the damaged ones. As long as the moisture is kept away, the decay will stop where it is and the new studs can carry the wall on the bathroom side.

[Kent A Bathurst]

One thing that could be done is to sister a new 2 x 4 next to the damaged ones. As long as the moisture is kept away, the decay will stop where it is and the new studs can carry the wall on the bathroom side.


Bingo!! Lee is the winner IMO. Saw away what you can, if you can, to remove the extant moisture, sister some new ones - they don't have to be full height, they jus thave to be talled that the rot/decay. The screws/nails from the other side can be "got to" with a hacksaw blade - not the saw, the blade - it'll bend/bow to follow the sheetrock on the other side, if you are reasonably careful.

[Jack DuBois]

Gregory, you're getting ready to re-do you bathroom...the guys at the tilemyworld forum (http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/) are extremely friendly, helpful and knowledgeable with these exact matters you're dealing with. If you have any Q's about repairing your bath, wander over there...

+1 on ripping out 2by and drywall - doing it right.

PS: do not put travertine directly on top of durock!!! Trav is basically a sponge and durock will happily absorb and retain water that gets past the trav. No surface sealer in the world will prevent water from getting to the durock. Goto that forum and do a search for "kerdi" or "wedi" for an excellent, bulletproof waterproof backer for tile. These type of systems are totally the way to go. Paint on sealers can be done effectively, but are difficult for the non-pro. Good luck!

Cheers,
Jack

[Tom Godley]

Before you rip the studs and the drywall out -- clean all the stuff out that has to come out and spray everything with some bleach.

I can not tell if the drywall on the bedroom side is really damaged - but if it is just stained it will be fine.

Depending on what you are going to put up a little damage on the face of the stud would not be a problem - you can always sister another next to it.


Now if it is rotten all the way and it is a bearing wall you may have to go further -- but the bleach will kill all the surface stuff.

[Mike Cutler]

I may go ahead and line the bedroom-side drywall with a vapor barrier under the replaced studs and behind the plumbing.

Thanks for your comments,

~g

Uhmm...... I don't think you really want to do this.
The vapor barrier would go between the studs and the Durock on the shower side, or the face of the Durock would be primed and sealed with an anti fracture membrane such as Redguard.
A vapor barrier on both sides of the studs would capture moisture in the void space. The area has to breathe properly.

Tile My World, as I know it, is a book title by John Bridge. John has an internet forum very similar to this forum in civility and good manners. A very good forum for all things tiling.
Ann Internet search under John's name will bring the site right up. Before yu redo anything in your bathroom I highly recommend a peruse of the forum. Especially the "Liberry".

[Richard Dragin]

How does replacing the studs one at a time fix the problem when the bottom plate must have the most damage? Isn't that and any water damage below it the real problem?

[Aaron Wingert]

I ran into the same problem in my bathroom after the previous owner hired a hack that didn't know that tile/grout are not waterproof. :mad:

Here's what I did....Perhaps it'll give you an idea or two.
The first pic shows the load bearing bottom plate, rim joist, floor sheathing and studs all rotted out and punky. Big mess.

The second pic shows the punky parts cut out and replaced. The studs on the left are not load bearing, but the ones grouped together on the right are. I was able to easily remove them without damaging the sheetrock. The new studs were applied to the existing studs with gun nails and I used construction adhesive to bond the drywall to the back of each new stud. Adhesive is perfectly fine in lieu of new fasteners. My rock was moldy in places so I did have no choice but to tear off some of the moldy paper and shoot everything with bleach and give it a good scrubbing.

Let me also echo what others have said about waterproofing the shower properly. Kerdi is by far the best product on the market for doing so in my opinion. Redguard is a cheaper and easier way to waterproof your backerboard that is fairly effective, although not as good as Kerdi.

[scott vroom]

You can try sistering in new studs as long as the base plate isn't damaged. If it were my house, however, I'd rip the entire rotten mess out and put in all new base plate, studs and drywall. Like my pappy used to tell me: "Son, go big or go home".

Good luck with your project! I agree with the other poster who directed you to the John Bridge Tile forum.....there's some amazing talent hanging out there and you'll get plenty of good advice.

:)

[Rich Engelhardt]

A few have mentioned using bleach...

Don't do it.

Bleach is incorrect for possible mold remediation.

Please, don't take my word for it, search on line for the proper method and materials to deal with it.

I'm also with Scott - I'd gut the whole mess and replace it with new & make sure it's up to code.

That stud that's missing half isn't anywhere near code.

Look at it this way, it's easier and cheaper to do it right now, then it will be to tear it all out and redo it should an inspector be called in.
Also - since it appears there is mold, that will have to be listed on a disclosure should you ever sell.

Having to tear out all your hard work and have the mold dealt with as a condition of sale just plain would suck.

[Matt Day]

Replace it all. You'll be glad you did in the end.

If it's black like that it's mold IMO. If you sister another 2x4 to the stud, yes you're replacing the damaged stud but your cleat on the bottom is still rotted/moldy and you're leaving all that mold in place.

You're already in there, do the right thing and take it out and replace the drywall on the bedroom side too (that probably has mold in it).

[Tom Godley]

Just because it is black does not equate with mold. This can be mildew and even a type of black algae that can grow in these situations. Even if it is mold its not the end of the world - this stuff is all around us everyday and can be treated.

You can do a project "right" without ripping everything out - where does it end -- I bet the floor and rafters got wet also!

[phil harold]

Just because it is black does not equate with mold. This can be mildew and even a type of black algae that can grow in these situations. Even if it is mold its not the end of the world - this stuff is all around us everyday and can be treated.

You can do a project "right" without ripping everything out - where does it end -- I bet the floor and rafters got wet also!

From 30 years as remodeling professional I have to agree with this statement

are the studs solid or soft?

You picture does not warrant stud removal

Once it is dry, close it up, there is now moisture and mold resitant sheetrock

If you decide to tile use the proper backing (not sheetrock)

Dont make a mountain out of a mole hill

[Henry Ambrose]

I ran into the same problem in my bathroom after the previous owner hired a hack that didn't know that tile/grout are not waterproof. :mad:

Here's what I did....Perhaps it'll give you an idea or two.
The first pic shows the load bearing bottom plate, rim joist, floor sheathing and studs all rotted out and punky. Big mess.

The second pic shows the punky parts cut out and replaced. The studs on the left are not load bearing, but the ones grouped together on the right are. I was able to easily remove them without damaging the sheetrock. The new studs were applied to the existing studs with gun nails and I used construction adhesive to bond the drywall to the back of each new stud. Adhesive is perfectly fine in lieu of new fasteners. My rock was moldy in places so I did have no choice but to tear off some of the moldy paper and shoot everything with bleach and give it a good scrubbing.

Let me also echo what others have said about waterproofing the shower properly. Kerdi is by far the best product on the market for doing so in my opinion. Redguard is a cheaper and easier way to waterproof your backerboard that is fairly effective, although not as good as Kerdi.

Good job and good example of how to solve your problem. I've done this a number of times and its a good workable solution that saves a lot of time and mess. If you are a careful workman, it is as good as tearing it all out.

The only reason I'd take it all out is if the wall is warped and wavy and you can't fix it back flat.

If you do tear it out, let your framing lumber sit a while inside the house, then after its all warped to its final shape pick the straight ones for this job. Everything about the job from there on out will go so much better and easier if your walls are flat and square.

I'll also second the tileyourworld forums - excellent resource for this kind of work.

[Greg Johnson]

I had a similar situation with a beam that would have been impossible to replace. Structurally, it was still sound, but there was some water damage and rot from a leak in some window trim. I used this product: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2093&familyName=Boatlife+GIT-Rot . It turned the wood rock hard and stopped the rot. Since you have the studs exposed, you should be able to dry them nicely and then sister on new studs that will carry the load. Done carefully, you shouldn't even have any nail or screw pops on the other side of the wall.

Greg