Dissapointing Dewalt 735/Shelix performance

[Scott Trebble]

I started this thread on another forum, so I should try and keep cut and paste to a minimum...

I recently purchased a Dewalt 735/Shelix head package from Canadian Woodworker (a great deal…$1000 ). The only head that they had was a shelved boxed head with 4 broken cutters (corners busted off, don’t know why), otherwise it looked unused. They replaced the cutters, shipped it all off to me, and I was off to the races.

It took maybe 3 hours to replace the head …I took my time, and was slow and careful (is there any market for an unused 735 planer head??) All went well with the installation, but I was disappointed with the initial cut. I did expect some slight ridges and scallops from my research on the web, but not as much as got on my first pass. I got 4 or 5 ridges that varied between 4 and 5 thou. I figured the replacement cutters might be to blame, so I took them all off and put them all on one end of the head, and replaced them with the displaced original cutters. This seemed to improve things slightly. I still get a couple ridges around 4 or 5 thou, and overall thickness on a twelve inch wide board varies by about 8 thou…( carefully measured with a dial indicator as well as a collaborated with a digital caliper)

I was just wondering if this is within tolerance, or if there might be something wrong with this head. I know that a slight scallop is the norm. What are the tolerances that I should expect? Does anybody have any experience with this combo?
I guess maybe I should take all the cutters off and reset them...quite a tedious process!
I would hate to have to take this head back out and send it back!


I sent a similar email off to Byrd and will update with their response if anyone is interested.
(check out the tread attached above for updates)
Thanks for your thoughts and any info you might have,
Cheers, Scott

[Allan Froehlich]

I don't know what to say, but this thread has definitly caught my attention.

[Chuck Isaacson]

How much material were you trying to take off in a pass?

[Cary Falk]

I had less than stellar performance from my Byrd that I put in an 8" jointer. I took out all of the cutters and cleaned the head and the cutters. After I torqued all of the cutter back on, I am a happy camper. It was a long process because of all of the cutters but it fixed my problem.

[Brent Grooms]

What speed were you using and how much per pass were you trying to take. I have to change how I feed for different woods as they react differently with the dewalt/shelix combo.

the only reasons I can think of that will cause ridges are...
- a chip in a blade
- blade not seated/torqued properly
- blade seat not clean /dust buildup etc.

I have had the dewalt head in since they first came out.. there is a learning curve.

[Mike Reinholtz]

Anyone with the Byrd/Dewalt combo care to share their experiences and tips to help shorten the learning curve? After spending 6 hours Saturday with a neighbor's help on my 735 to remove a stripped blade screw, I went ahead and ordered a Shelix from Holbren. We got the screw out on Sunday but the new head is on the way. I've heard a big help is to only use the finishing speed and to take light passes, anything else?

[Myk Rian]

The Shelix puts more load on the motor.
Take light passes in finishing speed.
The head is also a slightly smaller diameter than the stock one. If you use the thickness stop wheel, you'll have to adjust it down a tad.

[William M Johnson]

I have had mine for a year or so and never any problem. Ususally I wind up with a finish that requires no sanding. I have no measured with a caliper, but there is no discernable taper to the boards.

Don't mean to be arguementative but the shearing action of the cutter requires less power than the "blunt trauma" of the orginal knives. You can actually take a heavier cut than before. If I am finishing I take 1/2 turn at a time on fast speed. I see very little difference between the two speed settings.

Also I have never noticed any scalloping in the wood. Maybe I am just old and blind.:D

Bill

[John M Bailey]

I started this thread on another forum...




somebody joins our community and their first and only post is a complaint that begins with "I started this thread on another forum...", and then they end with "I sent a similar email off to Byrd and will update with their response if anyone is interested."
interesting......

[glenn bradley]

Lots of good advice here. +1 on what Cary said. The inserts are to be torqued to a certain amount and there have been experiences with the area under the inserts requiring cleaning (somebody cut corners in the wrong place it seems).

I had a kickback and developed ridges following it. Sure enough, material had gotten under the cutters. Cleaned it out and re-torqued the same inserts; problem gone.

The fact that the head got bumped around enough to break the cutters is a concern but, not too much as carbide is brittle. The fact that the inserts may have been installed by the same folks who would bump a carbide cutter head around is of more concern.

The ridges should be easy to track to specific cutters. Run a 13" wide board through and line it up with the offending area. Remove, clean, re-torque to Byrd's spec and re-test. Please keep us posted.

[Scott Trebble]

I was taking a minimum cut on some already finished oak... prolly less than 1/32", just enough to make sure I was cutting the whole board, and running on the finish speed.
It seems like re-seating and re-torquing all the cutters to Byrds spec is the way to go (there goes my weekend :-)
The cut that I'm getting now is unusable, it's beyond what sanding with a ROS can fix, I'm afraid.

John, I'm afraid your comment confuses me. Have I done something wrong?

Thanks much for the advice.
Cheers, Scott

[Brian Gumpper]

It sounds like you have an issue with the cutters being even. I would remove them all, clean the seats and torque them down, and I mean torque with the appropriate tool.

[glenn bradley]

Scott, just so you know (because he is modest), Brian Gumpper is the "Brian at Holbren" everyone talks about. He sells Byrd, Whiteside and others and knows of what he speaks ;-)

[Myk Rian]

I believe the proper torque is 55 inch pounds.

[Dan Forman]

John, I'm afraid your comment confuses me. Have I done something wrong?

Cheers, Scott

Nope. Some folks here are inclined to see conspiracies where there are none. :)

Dan

[Gary Click]

My experiences have all been good after installing the cutter head almost a year (?) ago, at least it seems like a long time ago.

No ridges, deep scallopes, less load on the motor, no tearout in figured woods, better chip control and MUCH LESS noise. The Byrd head makes a good tool even better and did I say that it is remarkably quieter than the knife cutter head.

There are other cutter heads that use a similar but not interchangable insert (the Grizzly head for example in my jointer), mixing brands of inserts by you or the people that sold the cutter head to you could give very surprising results.

gary

[Jason Pinsonneault]

dont mean to hijack the thread but ive got a DW735 and am curious wat you guys have paid for your shelix head

[Myk Rian]

dont mean to hijack the thread but ive got a DW735 and am curious wat you guys have paid for your shelix head
Just over $400 at Holbren with the SMC10 coupon code. Get a pack of extra cutters while you're at it.

[Jeff Monson]

Scott, I'm suprised to hear this as the dw735 I owned with a shelix head was fantastic. I would get some small ridges when trying to take too much material off the board...but they were small and disappeared quickly with a ROS.

[Brad Townsend]

I had the same problem. Got a $20 1/4" drive torque handle from Harbor Fright (misspelling intentional) and removed/reinstalled all my inserts to the same spec. Problem solved.

One may question how accurate a $20 tool would be. I would suggest that for this purpose accuracy is not that important as long as it is consistent.

[Scott Trebble]

Quick update:
I took all the cutters, off, rotated them 90 degrees, and reset them all with a torque wrench to 55 in/lbs. The cut was slightly better, but still not good at all.
I have another head on the way and hope to have good news after this weekend :-)

[Ryan Sparreboom]

Keep us posted Scott.
I'm seriously considering a Byrd shelix for my DW735 very soon as well.

Ryan
(Ryan in Edmonton on the "other forum" you refer too) ... :)

[Tim Johnson]

Could the problem be found in your quote---

"The only head that they had was a shelved boxed head with 4 broken cutters (corners busted off, don’t know why), otherwise it looked unused. They replaced the cutters, shipped it all off to me, and I was off to the races."

I'm not familiar with the type of material are in the inserts on the Byrd head, as I have a 735 with a factory head, but if several inserts were broken, could it be possible that a few more were "tweaked" enough to appear "normal" yet perform poorly? Just asking if that might be possible and an avenue to solve the problem? Especially if you cleaned and re-torqued the inserts and solved some of the problems but not all, perhaps a few more of the inserts have issues.

[Mike Reinholtz]

This may be way off, but I ordered a Shelix head for my 735 a few weeks ago and learned they are on back order due to issues with machining and the extra time it's taking now. Could there have been a problem with some that came out? I emailed in for an updated ETA but Byrd hasn't said anything solid yet.

[Glen Butler]

Byrd makes a great head and is quite user friendly when setting the knives. You should be able to get a glass smooth cut regardless of how much you take off. Saying otherwise would mean the head or the knives are bending as they cut. Carbide doesn't bend. Hope the new head works for you. I am in the same camp right now.

[Brian Gumpper]

This may be way off, but I ordered a Shelix head for my 735 a few weeks ago and learned they are on back order due to issues with machining and the extra time it's taking now. Could there have been a problem with some that came out? I emailed in for an updated ETA but Byrd hasn't said anything solid yet.

The delay is because they are super busy. Powermatic dropped some big orders and in general things are busier.

[Scott Trebble]

Update ....

CWW sent me a new head, and I just finished installing it.

YES! Looks good!! Very nice finish.
There are very slight, even scallops all along the width of the board (to be expected) instead of the hills and valleys I was getting before. I'm very happy with the cut now :-)

I'm guessing that the wrong cutters were installed on the previous head. It seems some time ago Byrd changed the design, and I think that the cutters on the head I first got were meant for the older design. That may also explain why a few were broken. That's just my best guess.

Thanks to C. Moore and Trevor at CCW for all their help in this :-) It's been a big pain.

Now .... back to work !

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[glenn bradley]

Wonderful. Glad that got taken care of.