MLCS Motorized Router Lift

[Stephen Edwards]

I'm a subscriber to new posts from a SMC contributor when he posts new videos on youtube and I thought this announcement was worth passing along to fellow Creekers.

I want a router lift so bad I can hardly stand it. But, I'm going to wait a few more months. There's gonna be a new kid on the block soon, hopefully by Spring.

This new lift has been under development for nearly 2 years now. (It's really amazing to me what all goes into the production of a new tool!). I do know that the first 10 commercial prototype units have been delivered to the woodworking supply house, MLCS, that will sell this new lift and is currently being field-tested. Fellow Creeker John Nixon is the inventor of this new Motorized Router Lift. He hooked up with MCLS to bring the commercial version of his lift to market.

A sneak peek video of the new MRL can be seen on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAL5eCIQOxw

In the interest of full disclosure I have no financial stake in this new lift. When it does come on the market, I'll pay for mine just like anyone else who chooses to purchase one. My interest in the new lift is that I am very impressed with what I've seen.

Some of the features of this new lift are:

It comes with the standard MLCS aluminum 9” X 12” router plate. However, it can be mounted to whatever plate one may already have in their router table. (I have the Rockler 8 ¼” X 11 ¾” aluminum plate in my table, now. I haven’t yet decided if I’ll cut the table opening larger to fit the MLCS plate or if I’ll simply mount the MRL to my existing Rockler plate. Since my existing opening is smaller than the MLCS plate I’ll probably enlarge the opening to fit the new plate that comes with the MRL.)

The lift itself is fully motorized. There are no cranks, handles, etc. used to raise and lower the router. It comes with a control panel that mounts on a router table. The electronic "brain" in the control panel allows one to use the variable speed control feature of the lift motor. This allows the lift to raise slowly during various operations or to raise quickly when I want to change bits), The direction of travel can be changed with the push of a button from up to down and has a digital display that reads to .001 thousandths of an inch. The readout can be set to zero at any point on the travel.

For hands free use, the lift comes with a foot pedal that allows the user to both raise and lower the router.

The lift has a built in upper stop that allows the user to set the maximum height of travel of the router motor/bit. Once the lift has reached the upper limit of travel, determined by the operator, a built in switch stops the motor that raises and lowers the lift. There's also a lower limit stop that does the same thing.

The lift has 4"+ of vertical travel and allows for above the table bit changes. Once the router is installed into the lift the only time that a person would need to go "under the table" would be to change the depth stop height, a simple turn of a knob.

As I understand it, this new MRL will fit any router with a 3 ½” diameter motor. It’s also my understanding that at some point in the near future there will be a version that will fit larger diameter motors. I think that MLCS is also going to offer an optional motor to go with the lift.

A couple of advantages that I see in a motorized router lift vs. the manual lifts would be cutting dados, rabbets and mortises in incremental passes. For example, if I'm using a solid carbide spiral bit to cut a mortise in a piece of wood I would lower the router until the bit is just barely beneath the surface of the table. I set the digital display to zero. Then, I raise the motor to the maximum depth of my intended cut and set the depth stop, using the digital readout, of course, to determine that point.

Now, using a tenon jig that rides in a miter track in the table or some jig that rides against the fence, (whatever one's preference), along with stops either in the miter track or on the fence that would determine the starting and stopping point of the left to right travel of the jig/stock, the operation is a simple task.

I put my stock above the bit, turn the router on, raise the spinning bit into the stock, using the foot pedal to do so, perhaps 1/8-3/16", and move the stock from side to side. Repeat as necessary, in small increments, until I've achieved the desired depth of the mortise. I look at the digital readout to know how deep I'm cutting with each pass.

The thing that really appeals to me is that I will not have had to remove my jig/stock from the table to change the depth of cut. Essentially, as I see it, a router table equipped with this motorized router lift will convert that table into an inverted plunge router. The difference would be that one will be moving the stock across this "inverted plunge router" instead of vice versa and the plunge feature is completely motorized.

I also believe that the dust collection will be much better than using the plunge router for making stopped dados, mortises, etc. I know that it will be better than on my current plunge router DC. setup.

I'm certainly not knocking any of the fine lifts on the market already, nor am I suggesting that anyone not buy one of the perfectly good lifts already on the market such as the Jessem, Woodpecker, Bench Dog, etc. But, I'm going to wait a few more months to get a router lift because I see the potential of this new MRL being able to open up many more operations for me that would not be possible, or even if possible not nearly as easy to perform, as with a motorized router lift. I feel certain that these operations will be much safer than lowering the stock onto a spinning bit on the router table, which I must admit that I sometimes do:eek:

MLCS will also be offering a circle cutting jig and a mortising jig as accessory items to be used with the MRL.

I’ll be sure to post a review of the lift once I’ve given it a workout on my router table. I’d also be interested in hearing reviews from anyone else who may purchase one before I do.

Sorry, I don’t yet know what the price of the MRL will be. I understand that it will be competitively priced with the higher end manual lifts already on the market. For anyone interested, keep checking with MLCS. It should be in their catalogue and on their website in the fairly near future.

[Chuck Isaacson]

I wonder what the price tag on this is going to be?

[Stephen Edwards]

I wonder what the price tag on this is going to be?

Chuck, I don't know for sure. My hunch is that it'll be somewhere in the $300-350 range. I'm as curious to know as you are. I guess we'll find out pretty soon.

One feature that I've seen in photographs that isn't really clear in the sneak peak video are the mounting bars for the control panel. They appear to be well designed and built so that the user has several options for mounting the control panel on the router table.

[Myk Rian]

Looks nice. I wonder if it will read in fractions. That would be nice.

[Mike Heidrick]

I am betting at least $500 and maybe more - DRO, scale, foot pedal, motor, lift, etc. A woodpecker lift is $280+ with just a lift.

[Ben Martin]

I am betting at least $500 and maybe more - DRO, scale, foot pedal, motor, lift, etc. A woodpecker lift is $280+ with just a lift.

Yeah, I am thinking at least that much.

If you are a tinkerer, something like this could be made. Would even be a fun project!

[Stephen Edwards]

I am betting at least $500 and maybe more - DRO, scale, foot pedal, motor, lift, etc. A woodpecker lift is $280+ with just a lift.

My "hunch price" of $300-350 would be for the lift only (with mounting plate), the control panel and the foot pedal. It would not include a motor. The motor, as I understand it, will be offered as an option, not part of the standard lift package. In fact, I'm not even certain that the motor will be offered in the beginning.

I'll try to get more details.

[Stephen Edwards]

Yeah, I am thinking at least that much.

If you are a tinkerer, something like this could be made. Would even be a fun project!

I love that word tinkerer! In fact, that's where this whole idea was born......

[Dave Lehnert]

I guess if I would get the chance to use a router lift I may see the value. But for $350 I can reach under the table to make my adjustment.
If I were going to drop that kind of coin I would put it towards a shaper.

Motorized lift idea is kinda cool but seems like just something to go wrong for such a simple process.

[Joe Jensen]

I bet it's closer to $1000 than it is to $350.

[glenn bradley]

The guy in the video made his original with a car window motor IIRC. Very clever and does things you couldn't do without it. The lift looks too lightweight to get my attention though. I would expect a motorized one to be even more heavy duty than my manual lift which the one in the video definitely is not. Still, he seems like a good and earnest person and I wish him well in his efforts.

My electrical add-on:

141352

No foot pedal but, for $14 at Costco, whadda ya want.

[Alan Schaffter]

I bet it's closer to $1000 than it is to $350.

That would be my guess, too.

About 7 years ago, I made a much more primitive one, a version of which I still use today. I just added a coupler to the bottom of my WP Plunge Lift lead screw and connected it to a small 1/20 hp, bi-directional, AC gear motor. It is wired to a DPDT paddle switch located on the front of the cabinet next to my power switch. It works quite well. I never got a chance to add the foot pedal. I have a Wixey readout to add to it also.

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/500/medium/IMG_26781.jpg.

[Jack DuBois]

I saw a ACME leadscrew and me thinks he's using a stepper motor to get the even 0.005" steps. At least that's the way I'd do it if I was interested in repeatable step size and position control.

I think with an accurate stepper and a more fine leadscrew you could get to 0.001" if necessary.

[Alan Schaffter]

I saw a ACME leadscrew and me thinks he's using a stepper motor to get the even 0.005" steps. At least that's the way I'd do it if I was interested in repeatable step size and position control.

I think with an accurate stepper and a more fine leadscrew you could get to 0.001" if necessary.

My brother who just got done converting a Bridgeport mill to CNC tried to convince me I needed to do the same to my router lift. The one thing, bit size must be remembered either manually (chart) or controller memory. A problem with routers that mills don't have, is that you can mount a bit differently each time, they don't always register the same, so each bit must be zeroed each time you use it, just like with a Wixey if you want to be repeatable.

I offered a version of my lift to Rich Hummel of WoodPeckers two years ago. He was interested and wanted me to send him one, but my design was still fairly primitive and all I had was the one unit on my own table. Looks like I missed the boat on that one! Of course the MLCS one has more features than I would have included. I'm surprised Jointech(?) who had integrated a Wixey in theirs hasn't come up with a powered lift.

[Stephen Edwards]

John has been encouraging people for years to build their own shop built version of a MRL. In fact, if you google Eagle Lake Woodworking, you'll find his site with detailed instructions, including videos stepping you through the process of building your own for very little money.

Far as I know the original one that he came up with (that he used in his shop for 7 years and that he teaches how to build on his site) uses a battery powered screwdriver to raise and lower the motor. Of course, he did some tinkering on the screwdriver but that's the guts of the lifting mechanism.

I have a lot of respect for the guy for several reasons, one of which is that even though there will soon be a commercial version of the MRL on the market, he's still encouraging and teaching people how to build their own shop built MRL for a fraction of the cost of the commercial version. To me, that says a lot about his integrity.

I also think that it will push the other manufacturers of router lifts to offer a motorized version of their lifts simply because, as Glenn Bradley noted, it allows one to perform operations on the router table that you can't do without the motorized lifting action.

When this thing hits the market and woodworkers begin to see the benefits and the increased efficiency of motorizing the lifting action of a router motor in a table, surely other manufacturers are going to follow suit with their own versions, IMHO. This is what's great about the free market!

Perhaps I'm nuts, (that's another topic all together!), but I truly believe that one guy's invention and his dedication to his concept is going to lead to a whole new generation of router lifts through out the industry. We, as woodworkers, will benefit from this because of innovation and competition in the free market. I see it as a win-win situation for all of us!

Time will tell.............

[Van Huskey]

If this simply motorized and added a DRO to a lift it would be a "meh" just one more thing to break for me, BUT this allows a whole range of operations that you can not do with a manual lift, or at least they would be very difficult and cumbersome. I was planning a new lift purchase in the coming months so I will be waiting for this to hit the streets. I can't see it being cheaper than about $500 and could be significantly more expensive but a DRO and high end manual lift will get you around the $400 mark.

[Mike Heidrick]

I got the MLCS email this past weenkend saying a motorized lift with DRO and foot pedal would be sold very soon. Are you just going by the youtube video Stephen or the announcement made by MLCS?

[Alan Schaffter]

I hope he filed a Provisional Patent Application (which is cheap) and that MLCS will devote the time and unfortunately considerable investment in a full Utility Patent Application. As has been seen with other woodworking products lately, protection of intellectual rights has a lot of gotcha's.

I have licensed a design for a totally different product which is almost at the same stage of development and I am concerned about this issue.

I am sure John already considered this, but if his lift uses a stepper motor, then one option he might consider for future models, is a "preset mode" where you dial in a setting and hit "go", no fiddling with up/down buttons. The lift then raises the bit to the preset height. This would be of more benefit to a production shop. Norm visited a cabinet shop on the NYW where they had an top end shaper I believe had that function. It was really neat. Whenever he changed profiles and inserted a new cutter, he would check his setting chart, dial in the correct setting, and hit go. Of course a "repeatable" setting capability, requires either a bit that self-indexes - always mounts in the chuck at the same height, or as now, the lift must be calibrated (zeroed) each time you change a bit.

[Stephen Edwards]

Mike,

I haven't received the email from MLCS. I subscribe to new videos posted by John Nixon/Eagle Lake Woodworking when they're posted on youtube. In other words, I'll receive notifications when a new video has been posted. I'm also a subscriber to certain threads on his website.

John and I exchange emails occasionally on a wide variety of topics, including the MRL. I've followed with great interest the long process of the development of the commercial version of the MRL. The first time that I saw it in action was on youtube or google videos, I don't remember on which one I saw it first. There's a video series of him building a pool table. It's part 3 of that series that shows the MRL in action making mortises for loose tenon joinery. When I saw that video I was sold on the concept. A google video version of that video can be seen here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7147496248521680103#

This was sometime well before before he even started working on the commercial version. He was using his tinkerer's version in those videos. In fact, he got so many requests for more info on how to build a MRL that he made the videos and posted info on his site, telling people for free how to build their on in their shop.

My interest in it is simply that I recognized it as a great innovation for a router lift. When I saw the videos of the MRL in action I was astonished that it hadn't already been brought to market by the manufacturers of the more popular high end router lifts on the market.

I absolutely hope that the commercial version being introduced by MLCS will do well. I'm convinced that it will. More importantly, IMHO, I think that this is one of those simple innovative ideas that comes along just once in a while that has the potential to revolutionize an entire market for a particular product. I find that to be very exciting.

[Van Huskey]

Mike,


I absolutely hope that the commercial version being introduced by MLCS will do well. I'm convinced that it will. More importantly, IMHO, I think that this is one of those simple innovative ideas that comes along just once in a while that has the potential to revolutionize an entire market for a particular product. I find that to be very exciting.


I think the base negativity here is a result of people not seeing the potential to open up a huge realm of possibilities with this product. Just the fact people are showing above table drivers to lift the router shows they don't quite get it. The ability of having a accurate plunging action with a tabke mounted router is far beyond the fact that rasing and lowering the router is quicker the possibilities are endless. Assuming the price isn't outrageous I will be in line to buy one as I already see many uses as well as the time savings, setup alone will be much faster. Multi-pass routing will be much faster and you still haven't touched the plunging capability.

[Chip Lindley]

The *proof of the pudding* will be repeatability and accuracy of programmed settings. Also, durability of the mechanism will determine if it is built only for light hobby duty, or is suitable for heavier commercial use.

MLCS sells an *economy* line of router accessories. So, the price tab should not be too heart-stopping! ....Now if Festool was involved......*gulp*!

[Stephen Edwards]

I think the base negativity here is a result of people not seeing the potential to open up a huge realm of possibilities with this product. Just the fact people are showing above table drivers to lift the router shows they don't quite get it. The ability of having a accurate plunging action with a tabke mounted router is far beyond the fact that rasing and lowering the router is quicker the possibilities are endless. Assuming the price isn't outrageous I will be in line to buy one as I already see many uses as well as the time savings, setup alone will be much faster. Multi-pass routing will be much faster and you still haven't touched the plunging capability.

Van, You've nailed it perfectly, IMHO.

My understanding is that when this thing hits the market there will be a series of formal videos on the MLCS website showing in detail all of the things that one can do with a MRL. I think that when people see those videos more folks will then "get it" in regards to "seeing the potential to open up a huge realm of possibilities with this product."

Currently, I don't have a router lift. I've got a Bosch 1617EVS mounted in my table with the above the table wrench that does allow above the table fine adjustments. Still, I have to go under the table to unlock and lock the collar in order to use this feature.

As I've pondered router lifts over the past couple of years I've thought about what one would need in a manual lift to be able to do all of the operations that can be performed with a MRL.

You'd need a lift that has the handle located somewhere on the table other than in the router table plate and well away from the business area. You'd still need a DRO and the ability to set stops for the upper and lower range of travel, much like a plunge router. In order to raise and lower a spinning bit into and out of the workpiece you'd also need a third hand to crank the handle up and down!

[Mike Heidrick]

No one seems to want to read the ad so it has been deleted. Stephen has been sent the email.

[Alan Schaffter]

I'm all for new products and the little guy, and hope this product makes it. I am not a moderator, but despite the usual "no financial interest" disclaimer, isn't this thread getting a bit too close to promoting a commercial product which is against forum guidelines? If this info was posted by Mike it certainly would be. Just curious.

[Van Huskey]

I'm all for new products and the little guy, and hope this product makes it. I am not a moderator, but despite the usual "no financial interest" disclaimer, isn't this thread getting a bit too close to promoting a commercial product which is against forum guidelines? If this info was posted by Mike it certainly would be. Just curious.


Assuming Stephen has no finacial interest in the product, I have no reason to think he does, I see nothing wrong with it, no different than any I love _____ or I can't wait until ____ comes out with the new ____ kinda thread, at least IMHO.

[Dave Lehnert]

I don't care one way or the other but does sound like a sales pitch to me. If not, the OP should take up a new job writing for magazines.

[Bruce Page]

Alan, I have to agree that it does read like a promotion but at this point I don’t think any rules have been broken.
However, I am a newbie Moderator.

[Alan Schaffter]

Alan, I have to agree that it does read like a promotion but at this point I don’t think any rules have been broken.
However, I am a newbie Moderator.

I hope everyone is just as understanding when I have my friend post about my new invention later this year and includes links to my promotional video and quotes from my sales literature in the post.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with this, nor links to personal and commercial web sites, etc. I don't agree, but I understand SMC's reason for not allowing such because of the free advertising from ads and links on other web sites, since this site is partially supported by advertising. I just want the policy to be uniformly enforced. Thanks, and I'll say no more about this.

[John Nixon]

There's new news on my site regarding the release of product. I won't dare post a link, so hopefully those that have interest in this will be able to find the page at Eagle Lake Woodworking.

[Bob Wingard]

Thanx, John .. .. I, for one have always been very impressed with your skills and willingness to answer questions regarding your home brew version of the lift.

May your endeavor be most successful .. .. .. $$ $$ $$ .. .. .. you deserve it !!

[Larry Rasmussen]

I think this is a great "topic" for Gen Woodworking and am appreciative of the time Stephen took to pass along the info. I just noticed the thread tonight as it moved back to the top of the list. The exitement of the original poster is wonderful to see, reminds me of a few new tools or jigs especially I've gotten wound up about. I watched the info video linked from U-tube and the one part of the pool table video which discussed/demonstrated the powered lift used for loose tenon joinery.

As a proud recent upgrader to the bench dog lift with the steel insert table I'm in no danger of being in the market soon. I do plan on following the release and reviews of this new product. When on the market there may be a time when the thread becomes an ad but at present it represents the introduction of an entertaining and potentially helpful new topic. I would reject soundly the idea that there needs to be any limitation or obstruction to the thread continuing.

Thanks moderators. I say always err on the side of allowing access to information. I'm going over to take a look at Nixon's site at least to check on whether the DIY info is still available. Maybe I can McGiver up a motorized lift of my own with a old drill, some wire, and a head of cabbage.

Regards,
Larry Rasmussen
Checking in from Seattle

[Alan Schaffter]

Larry, I hope it continues too, and that the same courtesy is extended to me- I have product coming out this fall or winter (minor problem with a supplier).

But, if you are a tinkerer at all, you can motorize your Bench Dog. While I don't have multiple speeds because I just used a reversible AC gear motor and have yet to hook up my Wixey height gauge, I have a pretty nice system that cost me less than $100 for everything (except the Woodpeckers Plunge Lift) - Wixey height readout, motor from the Surplus Center, shaft coupling, and a paddle switch. It works great! I can get minute changes by tapping the paddle- won't know how small until I hook up the Wixey- I never use the crank any more. I tried to interest Barry Wixey (Wixey Digital) and Rich Hummel (WoodPeckers) in an after-market, stepper motor version of my powered lift. It has certain advantages over just an AC or DC motor drive and can be easily added to any router lift, but they didn't bite (yet).

Early version:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/500/medium/P4160001.JPG

Current version. Stronger and faster motor. Simpler and better mount:
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/500/medium/IMG_26761.jpg

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/500/medium/IMG_26781.jpg

[Van Huskey]

Now I am fully intrigued...

The price looks great just the question of how solidly it is built and QC, I have no reason to think it won't we great.

[Kevin Gregoire]

http://www.eaglelakewoodworking.com/projects/PowerLiftNotice/thumbs/pllogo.jpg



MLCS shows a release date of Sept 8 for their Power Lift



The introductory price of the PowerLift will be $389.95 and includes:

The PowerLift unit
The control box
Bidirectional foot pedal
Articulating Control box mounting arm
FREE SHIPPPING!


Join the MLCS Eclub (http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/eclub.html) for the pre-sale and special offers

http://www.eaglelakewoodworking.com/projects/PowerLiftNotice/thumbs/pl1.jpg

http://www.eaglelakewoodworking.com/projects/PowerLiftNotice/images/plall.jpg
check out the Eagle Lake Woodworking site for info

http://www.eaglelakewoodworking.com/post/The-PowerLift-has-Arrived.aspx

[Brett Nelson]

Hmmm... At $389 I would definitely be interested in purchasing one, but I'm afraid it isn't at all compatible with my new Triton router. I would have to purchase another 3hp router just to dedicate to the lift. Looks like I have to follow through with my plans to build my own lift. :(

[Brett Nelson]

Larry, I hope it continues too, and that the same courtesy is extended to me- I have product coming out this fall or winter (minor problem with a supplier).

But, if you are a tinkerer at all, you can motorize your Bench Dog. While I don't have multiple speeds because I just used a reversible AC gear motor and have yet to hook up my Wixey height gauge, I have a pretty nice system that cost me less than $100 for everything (except the Woodpeckers Plunge Lift) - Wixey height readout, motor from the Surplus Center, shaft coupling, and a paddle switch. It works great! I can get minute changes by tapping the paddle- won't know how small until I hook up the Wixey- I never use the crank any more. I tried to interest Barry Wixey (Wixey Digital) and Rich Hummel (WoodPeckers) in an after-market, stepper motor version of my powered lift. It has certain advantages over just an AC or DC motor drive and can be easily added to any router lift, but they didn't bite (yet).


I'm curious as to how you built this for $100. The gear motors are usually more than $100 alone. I've been looking for one, as I didn't want to have to tear apart an electric driver.

But there are significant advantages to just using the cheap modified driver. It has a built in clutch to prevent too much torque from damaging your plunge base.

I figured I would need;

Reversible AC gear motor
Variable Speed Controller
Wixey Digital Height Gauge
Bi-directional Foot Pedal
Reversing Toggle Switch


All part included I figured I would be into it about $290. If I had a compatible router motor, I'd sooner just buy the MLCS lift.:mad:

[Kevin Gregoire]

well now that these have been out for a few months has anyone gotten one and tried it and what can you tell us?? post some pics too if you have em!

[David Weaver]

Gross...now people can make of tasteless over-routered pieces of work even faster.

The price is impressive, though, even though I have no interest in it. I would imagine it's making some other folks not so pleased, especially if it turns out to work as well as it says it does.

[robert micley]

it looks like bench dog and mcls have different size plates. my router tables have 11 3/4 x 9 something. i know it fits my jointech and woodpecker lift. you need a different insert hole for the mcls and bench dog lift.

[jason lambert]

Well I alsojust received one after a long wait. I won't get into to details but I lookedat it and it is going back for several reasons. Mainly light weight poor quality. I called MLCS and they said send it back but thereis a 10% restocking fee. Now I am upset. I had faith in the company bought aproduct with no reviews and was an early adopter. Decided I didn't like thequality it was still new in box now if I want to return it I get hit shippingto me, shipping back to them and a restocking fee of 10%. I suggest people think carefully after looking at how this is made for the price and thererestocking fees realizing if you don't like it you will be out some cash.