My Router Dilemna

[Mike Rees]

Okay, so here I go with my next tool purchase. I've obsessed on the many threads of this topic here on SMC, the Fine Woodworking mag review (2004?), Consumer Search, and some other odds and ends I can find (Pat Warner's site, but doesn't seem recently updated).

I'm not going to be doing raised panels. I'm not going to be using it every day (the tool will be project oriented and will hence sit in the kit box the majority of the time). I plan on using it to rout the ends of some end tables, coffee table, entertainment stand, etc. that I'll be making for my soon to be finished basement. After that? Depends on what I can find for it to do.

Bottom line is it won't be used very hard.

So originally I was thinking a fixed base 1.75 HP unit. It seemed Porter Cable was the standard for routers, so it made sense to focus there. Then of course I found the PK kits gave you a little more upgradeability for not a whole lot more money. Of course, then you get into the 1.75 vs. 2.25 debate for the router's muscle/motivation.

So I went from a 1.75 fixed base PC to a 2.25 PK kit.

Now I'm just completely lost.

Do I really need the plunge capability? I don't plan on doing any mortises and tenons (for what I do pocket holes and glue will last just fine). Do I need 2.25 (yes I know buy more if you can, but more often than not a Subaru will work out better for you than a GM Hummer).

Is PC really the standard? Milwaukee seems to make a nice unit w/ a great warranty - however magazines don't seem to cover them very much. Pat Warner LOVES DeWalt routers but lots of people here get cranky when you mention them.

So lost ....

[Mike Reinholtz]

I have a couple different routers, but most of the time I grab the Ridgid from HD. I didn't think I would use the plunge base either, but every now and then it's handy. I don't know how they do it, but the Ridgid machines come with a lifetime warranty. The woman that works the tool department said it even covers motor brushes. Most accessories I find fit the bases too, even one of the porter cable edge guides. I can't think of any times I've been short on power either.

The little LEDs above the cutter looked silly when I first turned them on, but after almost 2 years of owning the router I wonder why every company doesn't have them.

[Charles McClain]

I don't now about the pc's but in the Milwakee going to the 2.25 gets you variable speed. That may be more important that the extra power. I ended up getting a 2.25 pk after I got a 1.75 fixed base. It was only 30 dollars more for the kit than a plunge base for the 1.75. They are both Milwakee's and I can interchage bases and collets which is nice. If I had bought the PK kit first I wouldn't have bought the 1.75 unless I found a need for a second hand held router, like using it for a dovetail jig. Which is on my wish lists.

Charles

[James Artibee]

Hi ,I have a pc 2.25with a plunge and fixed base, a DEWALT 2.25 with 3 bases and a new craftsman 2.25 fixed and plunge, and a few OLD craftsman fixed. The PC was my goto, untill I put it my router table ,so I went to get another. I got an identical 1 at the borg,but my 1st was made in the USA the 2nd was made in Mexico,the new plunge base would not lock(the bushing on it was plastic not bronze)so I returned it and got the DEWALT. Bottom line I like them all but I didn't think I needed the plunge base either, now I wouldn't buy 1 without 1. If you decide to go dewalt , I got the 3 base ( comes with the D handle) and use it alot. They were all about the same $$$ , the same features, power, etc. More bases almost same $$ , 2.25 vs 1.75 afew $$ . buy the 2.25 with the plunge at the least. Just to confuse you a little more the new RIGID looks to be very good now. Hope this helps .JIM

[Mike Rees]

I originally was just going to buy the Dewalt 2.25 PK kit blindly until I ended up in analysis paralysis.

[Al Weber]

I can't tell you what to buy but I would not recommend the PC 890 series after my weekend experiences. I bought one about 3 years ago and used it in a router table on a Woodpecker plate but it never worked well as it was difficult to raise. I think some of the problem was poor dust removal which tended to jam the rack and pinion system but the system that was designed to turn the switch off when it was raised to change bits was also a continuing problem as it wouldn't work properly. I just moved and was setting up the new shop yesterday and put the router into the base to do some work. It wouldn't raise or lower at all so I pulled it and the screws holding the rack to the router body are stripped and cannot be repaired. These are little 1/8" length jobs that obviously are not adequate. I drilled the Woodpecker plate to take my old but usable Ryobi RE600 and it works until I can decide whether to buy another one. Let us know what you buy and how it works.

[Tony Shea]

I would hate to say it but for a router with a plunge kit and fixed base combo one cannot beat the Ridgid! I'm by no means a Ridgid fan either but was reccomended this router from an experienced cabinet/furniture maker as he said it was his go to router ever since he bought it. I is a variable speed, soft start, plunge and fixed base, accepts PC attachments, and can be adjusted for height above the router table with a supplied wrench. The last feature is often over looked and the newer Triton get all kinds of credentials for having this very feature. Well the Ridgid has had it before the Triton ever made headlines. And then how can you ignore the Lifetime Warranty on the tool, who can afford to do that anyway. The router has meet and exceeded my expectations and would highly reccomend it for a cost of $200 with everything. You could probably get it cheaper if you wait for a sale of some sort. Again, I am far from a fan of Ridgid but for the price and warranty some of their tools can't be beat.

[Jim German]

I don't really have a lot of experience, but for what its worth I'm rather dissapointed with my Milwaukee 5625 3.5 hp router. It doesn't really seem all that powerful, and seems to bog down relatively easily.

[Paul Ryan]

Mike,

If that is all you are going to use your router for. Then buy a cheap milwaukee 1.75hp fixed base body grip router. It will do everything you are asking and they are really nice. The best part of it you should be able to get one for under $100. If in the future you find you want plung, and more power then spend the money and buy a variable speed 2.25hp router pack. Routers are almost like clamps you can never have to many. But I will bet if you buy the small milwaukee, you will find that is all you need unless you start raising a small amount of panels. I started with a bosch 1617EVS kit, going through the same dilema you are. But I new I would maybe raise some panels. It has worked well to raise panels, but I have never used the plung base, and now it stays in the router table. The only time I need the extra HP and the variable speed is when I raise panels. The day it quits I will buy the big 3hp milwaukee, for the router table.

[Mike Rees]

Mike,

If that is all you are going to use your router for. Then buy a cheap milwaukee 1.75hp fixed base body grip router. It will do everything you are asking and they are really nice. The best part of it you should be able to get one for under $100. If in the future you find you want plung, and more power then spend the money and buy a variable speed 2.25hp router pack. Routers are almost like clamps you can never have to many. But I will bet if you buy the small milwaukee, you will find that is all you need unless you start raising a small amount of panels. I started with a bosch 1617EVS kit, going through the same dilema you are. But I new I would maybe raise some panels. It has worked well to raise panels, but I have never used the plung base, and now it stays in the router table. The only time I need the extra HP and the variable speed is when I raise panels. The day it quits I will buy the big 3hp milwaukee, for the router table.

Interesting, the Milwaukee 1.75 5615-21 (fixed base router kit) is more expensive than the 1.75 5615-24 (PK kit). Does the stand-alone fixed base router have a better base than the PK version?

[Kent A Bathurst]

Mike - howya' doin' up there? Can you see out the windows, or is the snow still up to the eaves? Had time to at least get those FWW out of the box I shipped them in?:D

My personal experience, FWIW - There are some PC products that seem to be bulletproof. The 690 router series (and the 75xx 3-1/4 hp) are two, and I would personally consider them the "gold standard" in their respective weapons classes.

Seems like everyone that makes router accessories accepts the 690. I've had a 690 for 12 yrs. The new version has the 1.75 hp plus variable speed. I have never had a cut that my 1.5 hp fixed speed 690 would not handle, with multiple passes if necessary.

I have never had a plunge. I think about it from time-to time, but can't yet come up with a "plausible excuse" to buy the base. If I ever saw a "steal" on one, I'd likely grab it, but then I'd be like the dog that chases cars - when he finally catches one, he says "now what am I going to do with it?"

The fixed base 690LRVS is available for $150. The set with the plunge is $200. Honestly, if I was buying new, I guess I'd get the set with plunge, because the fifty bucks is a good deal, and then I'd have it if I ever figured out what to do with it. If you don't want to blow the $50, I don't think you'll run into an issue, since you don't plan on routing M+T. (My M+T work is drill + chisel or mortiser, plus handsaw & plane or Unisaw + tenon jig).

I have no experience with other routers, so I have no argument with folks that prefer a different brand. It's just I have never needed to get any experience.

[Mike Rees]

Mike - howya' doin' up there? Can you see out the windows, or is the snow still up to the eaves? Had time to at least get those FWW out of the box I shipped them in?:D

My personal experience, FWIW - There are some PC products that seem to be bulletproof. The 690 router series (and the 75xx 3-1/4 hp) are two, and I would personally consider them the "gold standard" in their respective weapons classes.

Seems like everyone that makes router accessories accepts the 690. I've had a 690 for 12 yrs. The new version has the 1.75 hp plus variable speed. I have never had a cut that my 1.5 hp fixed speed 690 would not handle, with multiple passes if necessary.

I have never had a plunge. I think about it from time-to time, but can't yet come up with a "plausible excuse" to buy the base. If I ever saw a "steal" on one, I'd likely grab it, but then I'd be like the dog that chases cars - when he finally catches one, he says "now what am I going to do with it?"

The fixed base 690LRVS is available for $150. The set with the plunge is $200. Honestly, if I was buying new, I guess I'd get the set with plunge, because the fifty bucks is a good deal, and then I'd have it if I ever figured out what to do with it. If you don't want to blow the $50, I don't think you'll run into an issue, since you don't plan on routing M+T. (My M+T work is drill + chisel or mortiser, plus handsaw & plane or Unisaw + tenon jig).

I have no experience with other routers, so I have no argument with folks that prefer a different brand. It's just I have never needed to get any experience.

Kent, I didn't do as badly as others, but 14" is still enough snow for me. I'm due for another 10+ on Wednesday. My snow blower is finally making me happy I spent the cash.

The variable speed 690 is priced about where I want it to be. And all the routing pictures in those magazines you sent up my way seem to show PC routers in them ...

Yep, I've been lookin' at em !

[Jerome Hanby]

I've got the Hitachi Combo kit and it works well. I think having the plunge is so darn useful that you really need to think seriously about getting that feature. First thing that pops to mind is making shelf pin holes. You can make a super simple jig and "drill" perfect shelf pin holes every time. You can use the 1/4" bit for normal shelf pins and the 9/32" bit (I think it's 9/32") to make holes for shelf pin sleeves.

[Kent A Bathurst]

.........The variable speed 690 is priced about where I want it to be..........Yep, I've been lookin' at em !

You'll be happy with it. One of those things where I've always felt I got a good value for my $$$.

Good luck, Mike

[Paul Ryan]

Interesting, the Milwaukee 1.75 5615-21 (fixed base router kit) is more expensive than the 1.75 5615-24 (PK kit). Does the stand-alone fixed base router have a better base than the PK version?

It is the same base Mike,

Ya know I didn't even check the price when I made my post. They go on sale for $99 all the time, I just figured you could find one at that price right now. They are on ebay all of the time. Dont buy a used one there. There are plenty of stores that sell them on ebay all of the time with a full waranty. I bought my when it was on special for $89. I know if you keep checking you will find the 5615-21 for $99 at some point in the next few months. But that is probably to long to wait. Even at $149 it is still a great machine. And they will take all of the PC bushings. What I like so much is the strap so you can use it safely with one hand. None of the other makes have that option. Even a D-handled router isn't as nice.

[Mike Zilis]

When I purchased my first router (about 3 years ago) I went through the same dissection of my needs that you did. I ended up with a PC 890 kit. While I don't need the plunge as often, I didn't want to handcuff myself by leaving out this handy capability.

I loved the 890 except for the plunge base - it wasn't smooth at all. As I researched this online I found many many folks with the same problem. I returned the 890 and purchased a 690 kit which has worked out great. The "kit" has turned out great for me as I've used both standard and plunge. I think the only thing that would make this better is to have a "D" handle base included with the kit.

I also use a PC 7518 in my router table and it's a real workhorse.

There had been a lot of discussion about Porter-Cable being able to keep up the build quality since being purchased by Black & Decker in 2004. Other than the plunge base problem with the 890 router - which I believe was a design issue - my experience with Porter-Cable products has been excellent.

-Mike

[glenn bradley]

JMHO:


If you are only going to have one router, get a plunge (or combo).
2+HP is neither too little power nor too much weight.
Variable speed will allow you to make optimum use of a wider array of bits.
Soft-start and electronic feedback torque control make for more pleasant use and better cut results.

If you are only going to use it now and then, it may as well be as good as possible for those times as your experience will be limited. I have bought "lesser" tools as I suspected little use of them. The result is I never use them because I don't want to risk all the time, effort and money I have put into a piece on a questionable tool.

[Mike Rees]

Okay, so after digging more into this site, I have come to some conclusions:

A. For fixed base edge routing the Bosch 1617 and PC 690 seem to get pretty high grades.

B. Pat Warner seems to like the Plunge on the 1617 kit over the DC618PK

C. There aren't many people that comment on the Milwaukee rigs, but the few that do seem to think extremely highly of them and frequently expous their virtues.

So ....

I think for me its either spend 150 on the PC690 w/ the variable speed, or spend 200-210 on the Bosch 1617 kit. I don't think I can go wrong either way at this point - more money buys me more functionality and capability with the Bosch. Less money buys me less functionality/capability but a rig with a longer warranty and a pedigree.

Either way I like the offset bases that Pat sells - he even answered some emails (QUICKLY I might add) when I posed some questions. I'll probably be buying a offset base (thus raising the price more).

[tyler mckee]

I bought the hitachi 2 1/4 HP combo router about a year ago, no complaints on anything. variable speed, soft start, quiet, adjustment with the fixed base is a little sloppy but its not too bad once you get used to it. I have the fixed base mounted to my router table, i bent my collet wrench so i can change bits from above the table.

I think i will eventually buy a 3 HP router with above table bit adjustment eventually, but untill then i like the hitachi for the price. I got it reconditioned for a little over $100 i believe

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Well, I'll have to against the grain here, and say, from your work description, you should get a laminate/trim router. The things you're going to be doing does not require 1.75 hp, much less 2.25 or 3hp. If you're just going to do roundovers etc, a trim router should do the trick. They're small, easy to handle and MUCH cheaper for a tool that you think will eventually occupy space in your tool box. Oh, the trim router WILL fit in a tool box.:)

That being said, once you have a router, you'll find more uses for it.... I have 3.

Just my $.02.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Well, I'll have to against the grain here, and say, from your work description, you should get a laminate/trim router. The things you're going to be doing does not require 1.75 hp, much less 2.25 or 3hp. If you're just going to do roundovers etc, a trim router should do the trick. They're small, easy to handle and MUCH cheaper for a tool that you think will eventually occupy space in your tool box. Oh, the trim router WILL fit in a tool box.:)

That being said, once you have a router, you'll find more uses for it.... I have 3.

Just my $.02.

Actually, a good point, Kyle. Since I got mine, I've used it more than the PC690, because so much of what I need it for are the roundovers, and other lightweight work. Much easier to handle than even the small 690.

[Van Huskey]

2 1/4 is a good range for a general router, light enough to handle with the muscle for most applications.

For me the Bosch 1617EVSPK is my choice but the Dewalt 618 is solid too.

[Mike Rees]

Actually, a good point, Kyle. Since I got mine, I've used it more than the PC690, because so much of what I need it for are the roundovers, and other lightweight work. Much easier to handle than even the small 690.

Okay, so these things can do dovetails, hinge mortising, and edge work? So a typical Lowes purchased oak board of about .75 inches that I want to hit with a round over or some other decorative edging can be done just fine with this?

What's the max board thickiness one can edge w/ something like this?

*great, another whole CLASS of tool to consider ... :D*

[Myk Rian]

What's the max board thickiness one can edge w/ something like this?
How long of a bit do you have?
The 690 will do anything an 890 will do, except for turning panel raising bits.
The 690 is a nice router.
Take a look at the new Craftsman routers. They are based on the PC design, and are priced very well.

[Mike Rees]

I don't have any bits yet b/c I'm looking to purchase my first router.

[Todd Hyman]

I have a Triton 2.25HP and its great. It is a plunge base router and has good dust collection. It can also be mounted into a router table and in this situation can be raised and lowered above the table with the included handle. You can get them for a good price at the Woodworking Shows.

[Cary Falk]

I am going somewhat against the grain here and say since I got my Dewalt 618 3 base kit, my PC690 sits in the corner gathering dust. I don't consider PC to be the gold standard anymore. It is a shame because I used to love PC.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Okay, so these things can do dovetails, hinge mortising, and edge work? So a typical Lowes purchased oak board of about .75 inches that I want to hit with a round over or some other decorative edging can be done just fine with this?

What's the max board thickiness one can edge w/ something like this?

*great, another whole CLASS of tool to consider ... :D*

Can't answer that, Mike - sorry. I use my Makita 3707 for roundover, details, inlay, etc. Never tried to joint an edge with one.

[Mike Rees]

Can't answer that, Mike - sorry. I use my Makita 3707 for roundover, details, inlay, etc. Never tried to joint an edge with one.

Don't worry Kent - if I get the 690 or the Bosch it will give me capacity to grow. The more I think about it, the more I'm going to stick w/ my original choice above - PC or Bosch. I don't want to handicap myself RIGHT out of the gate ...

[Paul Ryan]

Mike,

If you are going to go the 2 1/4 hp route, which is a good choice. Take a good look at the milwaukee body grip kit again. They are fine routers. I suggest finding a store the has the routers on had and test them out see how they feel in your hand. That is what I like so much about the milwaukee, I can use them with 1 hand, or 2 hands, and the handles are nicer then the bosch too. If I did not have my bosch kit 1617, and I were shopping for that size, I would buy the milwaukee 10x over the bosch. The bosch is a nice router, but the milwaukee design is worth it's weight in gold, and it uses PC bushings. If you buy the bosch you need to buy their buschings or a different bottom plate to use the PC bushings. Plus the bosch is not a self centering design so you need a center tool as well. I suggest the PC router or Milwaukee, I don't have any experience with the dewalt routers. But I have never had good luck with the yellow tools, so I don't buy them.

[Mike Rees]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!


:eek:


I love this board. :D

[scott spencer]

Mike - Obviously there are plenty of good routers available to you...whether from PC, Bosch, Milwaukee, Makita, Triton, Freud, DeWalt, Ridgid, or Hitachi. Any of these should be suitable for serious hobby work....there is no universal "best router". For hand use, it's really important to get one that feels good in your hands, which is always a personal choice. Variable speed is far more important for table use than hand use, but it usually also comes with soft start, which is nice.

I've owned the PC690, Bosch 1617, Hitachi M12VC, Freud FT1700, and Milwaukee 5615. Overall I like the Milwaukee as well or better than any...it's extremely well built, has an excellent plunger, the BodyGrip feature, a very stout US made 11 amp motor, and has been available at a bargain recently. The Hitachi is the lightest and quietest...very well balanced and easy to handle. The hardwood handles on the Bosch are very nice but the stock base does accept the standard PC bushings. The Freud FT1700 is loaded with great above table features for table use.

Handle as many as you can, then decide.

[Carl Babel]

FWIW, I agree with what was mentioned earlier in this thread that a trim router will probably meet all of your (currently) stated needs. Besides lower cost, they have the added benefit that they are easy to control. I have a Bosch Colt that I am able to do a surprising amount with and it is incredibly easy to handle. If you do go this "route" ;), save a few bucks and get the fixed speed model.

I also have the Ridgid combo, which I am very happy with. As others have said, it is well thought out and very versatile. If you think you will have a need for a mid-size router within the next year, you should probably jump to one of these now. If not, consider a trim router now and if you have to upgrade after a year or two, it probably wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

[Mike Rees]

Mike - Obviously there are plenty of good routers available to you...whether from PC, Bosch, Milwaukee, Makita, Triton, Freud, DeWalt, Ridgid, or Hitachi. Any of these should be suitable for serious hobby work....there is no universal "best router". For hand use, it's really important to get one that feels good in your hands, which is always a personal choice. Variable speed is far more important for table use than hand use, but it usually also comes with soft start, which is nice.

I've owned the PC690, Bosch 1617, Hitachi M12VC, Freud FT1700, and Milwaukee 5615. Overall I like the Milwaukee as well or better than any...it's extremely well built, has an excellent plunger, the BodyGrip feature, a very stout US made 11 amp motor, and has been available at a bargain recently. The Hitachi is the lightest and quietest...very well balanced and easy to handle. The hardwood handles on the Bosch are very nice but the stock base does accept the standard PC bushings. The Freud FT1700 is loaded with great above table features for table use.

Handle as many as you can, then decide.

Well, you're convincing me to at least take the Bosch out and put the 1.75 Milwaukee PK in. So now I'm spending either 150 for the variable speed PC or 150 for the Milwaukee PK kit that has no variable speed but DOES have a plunger.

If the body grip design of the milwaukee lessens the need for a 3rd party offset base, the value becomes even better.

Makes a lot of sense ...

[Tony Shea]

Don't over look the Ridgid combo kit. It is the router I always find myself picking up. I have been very pleased.

[Kent A Bathurst]

[QUOTE=Mike Rees;1342347]So now I'm spending either 150 for the variable speed PC or 150 for the Milwaukee PK kit that has no variable speed but DOES have a plunger.[QUOTE]

I might not be a good reference on this, but my fixed-speed 690 has always done what I needed. Others should weigh in here - but I always figured the VS would be more important for large diameter bits to ge the tip speed back down below Warp 6? I don't use really big bits, and I take multiple pases in general. Unless I'm wide of the mark, it sounds like the Milw may be a better choice?

[Don Whitten]

I own a DeWalt 625, it's done me well for everything so far. I lost the 1/4" collet and just ordered a new one from tools for less today.

[Philip Johnson]

I just received a couple of Milwaukee 5615-24 combo kits from amazon for 139. I must say I am kind of impressed with them. I was looking for a couple of cheaper routers to use with a dovetail jig. I really just needed a basic fixed base router to set up and leave for dovetails. This combo was cheaper then most fixed base routers. I didn't even read what was included as I just wanted a fixed base router. It came in a nice but very large case. Had the 1/4 and 1/2 collets, wrenches, plunge and fixed bases, and a vacuum attachment, also came with clear bases and an alignment tool to center the base, which I was going to order extra for dovetails. My bosch didn't have any of this. Hard to beat the amazon deal in my opinion.

Now I did go down to the local tool store and have a look, they had Dewalt, Makita, Hitachi, PC, Millwaukee, Festool, maybe a few others that I forgot. The only thing I leaned from my visit was that any of em will do the job. I didn't see much difference between most of them.

Phil

[Mike Rees]

Unless one of the other aforementioned kits goes on sale, I think the Milwaukee 5615-24 is going to be what I end up with.

[Jay Allen]

You got that right Phil that case is a monster, but it is hard to beat the Milwaukee router. I got my first one about 5 years ago, well before the combo kit thing became popular. When I was looking around to replace some stuff that was destroyed in a fire, I looked at the Milwaukee combo kit, but that big suitcase seemed like too much to store in my small space. So went back to the original fixed base model. They were on clearence at my local Sears store. I already had a Ridgid combo kit and didn't see the need for multiple plunge routers. More than one router? absolutely...I have 5, but only one plunge.

As mentioned, a trim router will do a most of what a lot of guys need. I have several of them too, in different brands, but most of the time I use a Bosch Colt. I have them set-up with different bits for the sake of simplicity.