Hammer B3 or K3

[Mike Konobeck]

Anybody have the Hammer B3 or K3? Doesn't seem to be a lot of recent info on the web on these machines. I am seriously considering getting a slider after the recent posts and some digging around but am really unsure about the added cost of the Hammer line vs. the Grizzly G0623X. Looks like someone just posted some pics of the G0623X and it seems like a substantial machine. I am trying to work with Felder on the Hammer A3-31 and would like to pick up the matching slider but the price is pretty high for a hobbyist. I am struggling with the justificaiton for the A3-31 as it is.

Rod, Felder should pay you for your endorsement of the A3-31. :-) Seems like a solid machine.

I would have liked to get the C3-31 but I have a basement shop and the work to get it in the basement is not worth it. Space is a premium so I figured the A3-31 and a B3 or K3(minus the shaper) would give me the same functionality in a slightly more flexible package.

[Ed Griner]

Mike, It still seems "you get what you pay" for,regarding woodworking machinery.In the past six months I purchased a 20" band saw(ACM)and just ordered a Hammer3/31 jointer planer. I did a ton of looking at what is offered asian machinery and european.Contacted the customer service dept.of each piece I looked at,that played a big in my decision.Felder/Hammer didn't make it easy(20%down arrival 4/10).I didn't care for this arrangement,but after a conversation with the felder rep(Andy in Ontario,Canada)I decided this is the best way to go and placed my order.I don't think their is any question about the quality,I found everybody first class and professional.The prices may be a little higher,but you get a lot for your buck.I think Rod is right! By the way I'm from So. Jersey,the local dealer is in Newcastle,Del. Good luck/Ed

[Rod Sheridan]

Mike, I just went through the decision as to whether to purchase the K3 or B3.

I wanted the slider, in the 51" length for two reasons,


- I don't need more than that crosscut capability as I mostly build solid wood furniture

- a larger slider would have been too big for my basement shop.

The decision between the B3 and K3 was slightly more complicated. A couple of years ago I replaced a General 8" jointer and 14" planer with the A3-31.

I suddenly had more capable machinery, and more shop space, win win for me.

That swung the B3 winner in place of the K3 winner. I use a shaper a lot, I don't own a router table or electric router. ( I have an E.C Emmerich wooden router plane).

The B3 winner gave me a tilting spindle shaper with sliding table for a difference in price of $3k, or $1,000 after selling my old shaper.

It wasn't much of a decision to get a shaper like that, for that kind of money, as well as clearing up more of the shop.

The B3 winner had a few options, CSA approval on the electrics, dado capability, scoring saw option, rip fence fine adjust, 1,650mm crosscut fence telescopic extension and power feeder tilt away bracket.

Having a shaper (and power feeder) expands your shop capabilities in ways that you won't appreciate until you suddenly realize how flexible, capable, accurate, quiet and powerful a shaper is. Add a tilting spindle and it reduces tool costs enormously, and the sliding table makes tenons or cope cuts like no other machine.

If you can afford it, I'd recommend having the shaper as part of the machine, regardless of who you buy it from.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. the C3 can be taken apart to get it into the basement shop, PM me and I'll get you in touch with someone who had Felder do it for him.

[Mike Konobeck]

Thank you Ed and Rod. There is no doubt the quality is there with these machines. Don't expect Felder/Hammer, MiniMax, or any of the like to compete with the Asian brands on price but the spread is hard to get over.

Rod, How did you get the B3 into the basement of your townhome? I hope it is a walkout with a large patio door. I too have a basement shop but need to go down some stairs. Not an issue really as there are many people who have posted their experience in doing so. The funny thing about the B3 is that they made it 31.5" at the narrowest. The average interior house door is 28". It would be nice if it could be broken down a bit to move in smaller, lighter pieces. I just have to take a couple door frames out which is not a big deal. I tend to make work out of work so this is par for the course. :)

[Rod Sheridan]

Ed, it's not in yet.

The base dimensions I received from Felder are 750mm wide X 955mm long, which is 29.5" wide.

I will be removing the sliding table before taking it into the house, which requires some wood ramp construction to navigate my front steps.

My basement stairs have a 31.5" wide door frame, so I'll be ok. The stairs and the hallway are parallel, so I make a right onto the landing at the top of the stairs turn another 90 degrees and go down.

The B3 will be winched down, just like my A3 was.

I'll try to remember to take some photographs.

regards, Rod.

[Neil Brooks]

The B3 will be winched down, just like my A3 was.

I'll try to remember to take some photographs.



Wow.

Now THAT's grace under pressure :)

[Mike Konobeck]

Can't wait for the day when I have to worry about getting a machine like that in my basement. Hopefully soon.

For you A3-31 owners, would you consider getting the helical head? My main reason for considering it is reduction of noise and minimize potential tearout in tough grain. They are offering it with the Byrd head for $800.

How much life (approx. bd ft) do you get out of the HSS blades? I have a Tormek and could potentially resharpen them with the jointer blade jig.

[Chris Tsutsui]

The A3-31 is loud without it even cutting anything so wear hearing protection and expect a loud tool regardless of what head you get on it.

As for the quality of the cut... The A3-31 with the regular head and STOCK CR steel blades does a fine clean job though it will give you slight planer marks that appear like subtle ripples on a glass smooth surface. These can easily be sanded or scraped prior to finishing though.

I wonder if the helical head gives less ripples, and stays sharp longer. That may or may not be worth $800 to you... I'd probably just pay $60 for some Kobalt blades and use the rest of that money towards your slider. :)

What's good about the A3-31 is it has ample power to cleanly remove a lot of stock... Enough to even clog a 2HP Harbor freight DC since you can remove up to 4mm of stock in one pass.

What I like most about it is that it's a professional machine built to high tolerances and plenty of fine adjustment. Once you get it dialed in, it stays that way and gives you consistent results.

I was able to thickness 1" wide stock down to 1/8" thick. Results were impressive though when you thickness boards that thin on the machine you should expect a minor degree of snipe. 1/2" or thicker, i don't get any snipe.

I should mention that to lift the left wing you have to hold a safety tab up with one hand and lift with the other. The wings aren't exactly light weight so you can't have any back problems or slippery fingers.

When doing the changeover, the dust collector hose flips to the other side which can be inconvenient if your length of hose is short. In addition, you have to crank a knob for 15 seconds or so during each changeover.... Thus you won't be happy changing it back and forth so make sure to do all your jointing first, before doing the changeover preferrably (once a day at most). :D

The worthwhile upgrades to me are:

1. Mobility upgrade, I find it simple, and I can maneuver the machine as if it weighed a lot less than 700lbs. It does have tiny looking plastic wheels but it's engineered correctly and works like a charm if you have tight space. Too bad most accessories seem a bit overpriced...

2. Digital readout for planer. Works excellent and is a real time saver. This is worth every penny.

3. The next addition I feel will be useful is an extension bed for the planer outfeed.

4. The Kobalt blades should be ordered eventually if you get the standard head though the stock blades should last a hobbyist a pretty long time.

Really the only way you can go wrong with a product by the Felder group is that you paid more than you can afford... Factor in their accessories and add-ons, and you're looking at spending quite a bit. I got lucky and found a new unit on CL.

Anyways, to make the decision more difficult for you I'm going to have to phrase Grizzly for offering so much value. You should definitely budget out everything you want from Hammer, then take that money and see what you can get at Grizzly... There are many satisfied customers, so really you should put as much thought into your machines as you can.

[Jeff Monson]

Mike, Chris has summed up the machine very well, he is obviously another happy a3-31 owner :D. I have been very happy with the kobalt blades and have not needed to flip them yet (about 150bf through them so far).

I did own a planer with a shelix head, it was very impressive on tough grain. I had planed figured maple and curly cherry with little to no tearout, that was a big plus....but I dont work with that much figured wood. I emailed holbren on the availibility on a shelix for my a3-31 and was qouted $920 shipped to me...so $800 is not a bad price. I got really bad tearout on some figured maple recently on my hammer, and that is why I inquired holbren on a shelix. I decided to put the money towards a drum sander and will stick to my #4 smoother and a drum sander when I get into tough grained wood.

The hammer is a really fine piece of equipment, there isnt a day in the shop that I have regretted the investment. The digital handwheel is a MUST for this machine, it should be standard equipment IMO.

Good luck on your decision.

[Brad Shipton]

Mike, I believe your fundamental question of K3 or B3 is pretty easy. Do you have space for a separate slider and shaper in the shop area and can you afford the cost increase? I have a B3 and an A3, but once my shop grows into its new space, they are going to be replaced with separate machines. They are great machines for my confined space right now, but there is downside to any combination machine. Many times I have needed to cut small parts in between shaping steps. Sometimes I get away simply removing the hood, but other times I have to remove the hood and the cutter in between shaping steps.

Good luck
Brad

[John Coloccia]

Definately get a Hammond B3. Not sure what this has to do with woodworking, though...

:p

[Rod Sheridan]

Definately get a Hammond B3. Not sure what this has to do with woodworking, though...

:p

And some bell bottom pants..............Rod.:D

[Mike Konobeck]

I just wanted to let you know that the order has been placed. Purchased the A3 for now. There is a sale March 18-20 so I am going to see what kind of deals they put together for the B3 or maybe even the K500. Was assured that there would be no further discounts on the A3.

Wanted to thank you for the advice on the helical head. Putting that money towards the saw may get me there a bit quicker and allow me to purchase a couple accessories that I otherwise couldn't afford. Can always upgrade the head later. Spoke with a gentleman that did it and is getting very good performance out of the Byrd head but like most said that the cost justification is tough unless you are working with really tough wood.

Take care and happy sawdust making!