Need A Sloooooooooow Setting Glue

[Jim Eller]

I working on my granddaughter's hope chest with raised panels.

I just dry fitted the front which has two rails, two stiles, two muntins and three panels. By the time I get this stuff all aligned, my Titebond III would have been dried long ago.

So the question is, what are some slow setting glues? It's going to be clamped so I can wait for the glue to dry. I just want time to get it right and not have to rush into an "OH $#!*".

Thanks,
Jim

[Mike Henderson]

The slowest glues are the epoxies. West Systems with the slow hardener is good for probably an hour of open time.

Just keep the pot cool, put it in ice water.

Mike

[System Three T-88 is also slow.]

[Glen Butler]

30 minute expoxy? Just be careful where you put it and don't get to much cause it doesn't clean up as well or sand as well as tightbond.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Jim - I used T-III on my frame-and-panel chest- we've discussed similarities in our designs. 3 panels front, back, + top - one on each end. 2x2 posts at corners. My solution was to break the glueup into manageable segments:

I set the front center panel, and glued the two stiles to the top and bottom rails. Clamped vertically, then dry-fit into the corner posts and clamped horizontally. When dry, did left front panel. Then did right front other. Final case assembly - laid case on back, set panels, glue only on the M+T joints into the back, dry fit the front, clamp. Then, glue the front. Like every other Creeker, I don't nearly have "enough" clamps, but I certainly have plenty to let me have a couple of these going on at the same time (ie - front and back at the same time; case and top at the same time.

Took a little more time because of the multiple glueup steps, but I didn't have to race the tack time, and could dry-fit the "mating" sections each time to be sure the case went together correctly. PLus - with two gluing stations going, I didn't get much "sit-down-beer-time". All came out just ducky. (And - yes - I still owe my Mom those photos, thanks ;)).

[roman fedyk]

Hey Jim, when I need a slow setting glue I work in an area that is on the cold side. Glue takes a lot longer to set up when cold. But it will eventually set up and so will give you plenty of open time. Epoxies are great but if you have to take something apart, then you are in trouble, they just hold too well.

[Steve Jenkins]

If you can stand a dark glue line plastic resin glue works great. Clamp time is 14 hours or so and a long open time. It is a powder you mix with water. Most hardware stores carry it and I think the big boxes do too.

[David DeCristoforo]

Just get some good old white glue. It's plenty strong and has a much longer "open" time than any of the yellow glues.

[Dan Forman]

Liquid (bottled) hide glue has fairly long open time. Some of the plastic resin glues have darker glue lines than others. They do require temps of around 70 degrees to cure, but a lot of folks use an electric blanket drape to do that.

Dan

[Tom Adger]

In reply to your original question, go the the Lee Valley website, and look under adhesives/glue. You will find 2002GF adhesive. Has a 15-18 minute work time, compared to Titebond's 8 minutes. I did the laminations on my workbench top with this, because of the time involved in getting things just right and clamping. Not a single lamination failed.

[Peter Quinn]

Jim - I used T-III on my frame-and-panel chest- My solution was to break the glueup into manageable segments:

.

Epoxy is a "bleep bleeping bleep of a bleeping nightmare" to clean up if it drips or squeezes and there is any stain involved down the road. Its never my first choice. I agree with Kent, break down the glue up into parts you can assemble. Most every one can be done. We do some pretty complex assemblies at work, starting from the center or some logical point. We will often glue just a center rail and style intersection, but dry assemble and clamp the surrounding members to keep a good alignment. You can usually get away with a 30 minute clamp time between stages as long as you don't stress the parts to get to the next stage.

I don't know if its available to you but sometimes having a "gluing partner" that knows their way around a glue up can turn a race for the finish into a walk in the park, albeit at a brisk pace. Also, you can add some water to titebond III (maybe up to 10%-15%) as a retarder without loosing strength, just add to the clamp time as well.

[Mike Henderson]

Epoxy is a "bleep bleeping bleep of a bleeping nightmare" to clean up if it drips or squeezes and there is any stain involved down the road. Its never my first choice.
I don't understand your comment. I've used epoxy extensively and have had no more problems with glue residue than I have with TB, for example.

Epoxy does not penetrate into wood any deeper than TB, and sands off about the same as TB.

I've used epoxy on chairs, tables, chests of drawers - you name it - and never had a problem with the finish (due to epoxy glue).

I choose epoxy when I need a long open time, or when I want to make sure of the glue joint, such as the M&T joints at the back of the seat of a chair.

Mike

[Jim Eller]

I agree with Kent..............

Hey Kent, someone agrees with ya.:D

I had thoughts of putting three sides together first but I'm paranoid about having the glue set and something being out of whack when I go to put the rest of it together. But I guess it worth a try.

I'm just amazed that Elmer or Titebond or............... doesn't make a glue you can just squeeze out of a bottle with a thirty minute or so working time.

Thanks to all.
Jim

[Steve Rowe]

I like the Titebond II Extend. It gives a longer open time but you didn't really specify how long you need. Unibond 800 is also an option that will give a much longer open time.

[Aaron Hastings]

I don't understand your comment. I've used epoxy extensively and have had no more problems with glue residue than I have with TB, for example.

Epoxy does not penetrate into wood any deeper than TB, and sands off about the same as TB.

I've used epoxy on chairs, tables, chests of drawers - you name it - and never had a problem with the finish (due to epoxy glue).

I choose epoxy when I need a long open time, or when I want to make sure of the glue joint, such as the M&T joints at the back of the seat of a chair.

Mike

While I appreciate your experience which I don't doubt is extensive, I must respectfully disagree. I've built boats and furniture....used epoxys, polys, PRGs, yellow glues, etc..... and in my experience, epoxy is just a nightmare to clean up compared to titebond. Again, just my opinion.

For the original poster.....if your project is dark, use Urac185. I've done some pretty slow glue-ups with it and it works well. Just IMO.

[Paul Ryan]

Just get some good old white glue. It's plenty strong and has a much longer "open" time than any of the yellow glues.

I second Davids suggestions. I ran into this a few months ago, I had an assembly that was going to take a while. I checked on here and was told epoxy, epoxy, epoxy, but I hate epoxies, I refuse to use them unless I absolutly have too. I then talked to a couple old timers I know around here. They said the same as David, good old Elmer's Glue All is the ticket. It worked great and if it is strong enough for panels it is strong enough for most everything else.

[Richard M. Wolfe]

I'm making an oak panel chest and this afternoon I did the same thing you are talking about - two rails, two stiles, two muntins and three panels. I dry fit everything and when I took it apart laid all the pieces in an orientation that went together well. I used Titebond Original...about the only thing I ever use. Working in a cold shop as mentioned and having a drizzly rain giving high humidity gave me plenty of open time. I prefer a water soluble glue as there is invariably squeezeout on the inside corners and with the ogee profile I'm using sanding would be just about impossible. As it is a wet paper towel got rid of everything on the face; the flats on the back and edges can be sanded easily enough.

[Paul Murphy]

One more option is Titebond polyurethane glue, 20 minute open time.

Titebond lists the same open time for TII-Extend (20 min), but I feel like I have to move a little faster than that.

[John Coloccia]

Just get some good old white glue. It's plenty strong and has a much longer "open" time than any of the yellow glues.

When I saw the thread title, that's the first thing that came to mind. I've switched from Titebond to LMII's "instrument glue", which just seems to be a good white glue.

[Michael MacDonald]

I used the tightbond extended two months ago to assemble a bedside table... after getting everything clamped up and square, I belatedly realized I forgot to add the bottom shelf, which was set to have corner tenons mortised into the four legs... boy did I jump. not sure how much time had passed--maybe about 15 minutes...

I reversed a clamp to a spreader, got one leg separated (it made a loud smack when it came apart... but the glued surfaces still seemed tacky) and managed to fit the shelf in place. I got the legt back in place and it seems to be holding. I haven't yet tried the "stand on the table to change a lightbulb in the ceiling" test... maybe I will pass on that.

Good times.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Hey Kent, someone agrees with ya.........

Yeah well, seems like there's always one in every crowd, eh? Yeesh.

Also - BTW - you prolly already got this tip in hand, but whenever I am heading into a glueup that is tricky, or I'm worried about tack time, etc., I always go through at least one complete dry-fit clamping cycle, looking for clamp pre-set sizes, clamp + cushion block staging locations (including blue-tape cushion blocks in place), part positioning, get the mallet handy :), etc. Helps me avoid deal-killer surprises when I'm in too deep to get back out. As a former process improvement "expert" in manufacturing, I learned that there are a surprising number of time-wasting activities that can be eliminated through thoughtful planning.

[Frank Martin]

Looks like epoxies do not have a good rep regarding cleanup, but I like it. I use the West system with a very slow hardener, which gives I think close to 90 mins open time. I recently used it on a project and glue-up was completely stress free and enjoyable rather than a race to assemble and clamp it up before the glue sets up. I know I could have done the glue up in stages, but that would have taken much more time than doing it all at once and making sure everything lines up properly.

Next time I will also give a try to white glue. I have not tried that one before.

[Lee Schierer]

There is no law that says you have to glue all the joints at the same time. I've often dry assembled a piece and glued only one or two joints, because the alignment and checking time exceeds the open time of the glue. Then once the glue dries on those parts, I disassemble other parts and glue them up.

[James Carmichael]

+1 on the plastic resin. Gloves and a respirator are recommended, as I believe most of these are urea formaldehyde, which is carcinogenic, though I suspect you would need years of daily exposure for it to cause any damage.

[Dave Lehnert]

+1 on the use of white glue. Just be sure to use the Elmers Glue All and not the School glue.

http://epicurvegan.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/1893262.jpghttp://www.highsmith.com/images/full/Elmers-oz-School-Glue-HSL_i_H36148.jpg

[Eric Gustafson]

There is no law that says you have to glue all the joints at the same time. I've often dry assembled a piece and glued only one or two joints, because the alignment and checking time exceeds the open time of the glue. Then once the glue dries on those parts, I disassemble other parts and glue them up.

+1 I have used the same technique.

[Jim Eller]

Picked up a bottle of Titebond II Extenze.

I'm gonna give that a try along with partial glue up.

Jim:)

[Rick Jackson]

Fish glue from Lee Valley has an open time of 60 to 90 minutes. I had the same problem of time when I was gluing up the cabinets under the outfeed table for my table saw. There were quite a few dadoes to glue and it gave me the time to align and square everything before clamping