Festool ATF55 and MFT questions

[John Edwards]

Considering the ATF55 and a MFT.
Now I understand a little bit about the two tools.
One thing that stands out are the comments on how this combination
replaces the need for a SCMS. Whereas I understand the MFT will allow
for up to 45* mitering. How about bevels?
If say for instance, I am triming out a house and am cutting 4"
baseboards. The baseboards would need a bevel cut. Would I simply
tilt the ATF55 to whatever degree I need and go from there ? What if I
need more then a 45* due to a wall not being square ?
How easy is the ATF55 to tilt in say a 42 degree tilt ? Is their a degree scal that we become familar with such as on a SCMS ?
As you can see I still need a lot of education in order to evaluate
the purchase of these tools.
Would anyone of you please help me out in answering some of my basic
questions ? And perhaps answer some of the questions I have`nt even
thought of here yet ?
Thanks
John Edwards

[Paul Berendsohn]

Hi John...

In the unlikely event you've missed the sometimes raging debates previously, I'd be remiss if I didn't suggest you seriously consider the EurekaZone Smart Guide as an alternative to the Festool system (www.eurekazone.com (http://www.eurekazone.com)) . While Festool of course has a wonderful system, Eureka's is (IMHO) more versatile, better constructed and has a host of features that are lacking in the Festool system... Feel free to ask if you have any questions.

Paul

[Frank Pellow]

Hi John...

...
While Festool of course has a wonderful system, Eureka's is (IMHO) more versatile, better constructed and has a host of features that are lacking in the Festool system...

Paul

Paul, why do you say that it is better constructed?

[Paul Berendsohn]

Well, my impression is that the SmartGuide's extrusions are "beefier" than the Festool (again, qualified as "IMHO") and the system for joining sections gives more rigidity and more precise registration. I also was more favorably impressed with the design of the antisplintering strips on the SmartGuide. All reasons why I opted to purchase the SmartGuide over the Festool. But again, I'd not want to give the impression I'm slamming Festool... they make a great product.

P.S John... Although I'm not of course a Festool owner, my recollection from using a friend's is that it is not well suited for workpieces as narrow as the 4" you are mentioning...whereas the Eureka clamping system works well in that case.

[Jim Becker]

Let's not get into a food-fight here again, folks, and remember that "best" is relative to the individual user.

John, I don't own the MFT, but have used it in the shop twice when Bob Marino visited. I would say that the combination can do a lot of the work you might have considered an SCMS and/or RAS for in the past but maybe not everything. Whether it's a replacement is dependent upon what you really need to do. By example, for me, it would work well as I very rarely, if ever, cut compound angles on things like crown molding that are harder to hold down. And I'm not concerned about small work pieces since I don't cut them at the CMS, anyway...I use a sled on the table saw for safety. But for crosscuting boards, narrow sheet goods and the like, with or without angles and bevels...the MFT can support them from what I've seen with the caviat that I have not seen or experienced the bevel cutting...yet.

[Paul Berendsohn]

I agree entirely Jim, and I hope I didn't say anything that could be construed as picking a fight. We all have our favorite tools and we're all eager to say why they are so... nothing more.

[Chris Padilla]

Did you guys see our own Bob Marino on Mr. Lucas' site? :)

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/fes-53.htm

Jointing with the ATF55.... :)

[Aleks Hunter]

Hi. I know that I'm pretty late to the party here, but I have used both and own the EZ system. The original post here is absolutely correct in that the eurekszone sytem has a few plusses that the Festool lacks.

First is the fact that it has a sled that will accommodate a much larger circular saw, even the Makita 16" monster, which is nice to have in the unlikely event that you need it. The festool plunge saw is excellent. The EZ system is only going to be as good as the saw you attach to it.

Second, is that the EZ rails are multiple hollow extrusions where the festool is a flat solid shape with two cavities that are very nearly what is known as semihollow condotion, there isa magic ratio between the square of the narrowest opening and the enclosed area within that void over which a die very much like a hollow die has to be constructed. Remember that the die has a "tongue" which makes this void (the T-track), Solid dies are typically 1-1.5" thick so that is the amount of support that tongue has. The hollow die to make the EZ is likely 6" or more and has a complex internal structure to support the mandrel for the hollow voids, and the sider connection tracks nicely avoid the semihollow condition.

The multivoid hollow is certainly no easy trick, but when it is done correctly it produces a much more consistent, much stiffer shape. The EZ shape is absolutely a diemakers nightare, and likely aT LEAST times the cost to produce as the Festool's solid die.

The advantage of the hollow, aside form greater consistency, and yes standard commercial tolerances still apply and those for hollows are more forgiving, from being extruded through a much thicker much better bolstered die is that it moment of intertia and section modulus of the profile are significantly higher, making the EZ extrusion stiffer. Yes the Festool flat does allow a deeper depth of cut, but the EZ system does allow for 10" and even larger saws to be used. Yes they are expensive, but at the end of the day the price of both systems is about equal.

EZ. connecting system gets points for being clever as well as significantly heavier. The sliding dovetail effect helps the rails line up very nearly perfectly every time and the fact that they are three times wider and there are two of them speaks for their greater strength.

A festool system with two 55" rails, connector and Plunge saw and 2 EZ rails, connnectors, sled and inserts, and a Milwaukee 10"saw will each run in the neighborhood of $700. The biggest functional difference is that the latter will have about an extra inch of cut depth.

Just $.02 worth long after the fact.

[Gary Curtis]

The ATF 55 is no longer made and was superseded by the TS 65. I own the ATF, but didn't upgrade. No need. The 65 has bigger blade and some slight added features. I can't comment on the long-running Festool/Eureka zone feud.

I also own the MFT/3. That's the new model worktable from Festool. I'm a hobbyist so I don't have time/cost pressures. But I think 4" baseboards would be a simple job on any equipment. Hey, you make a test cut and if you're off, you adjust. You can do that with any gear. The saw in itself isn't much of a worry.

But the table is a really innovative device. Pricey. But I hardly go to my workbench any longer. The MFT allows clamping thin boards flat on top. Or on edge, Or long timbers horizontally clamped to the side. I use it for all my Dados, cause a tablesaw arrangement for Dados scares the hell out of me. But that requires the purchase of Festool's router, of course.

Beware the slippery slope Festool. You might end up buying a shop full of their gear, and that's what they want. For just the baseboard, I think you could by without the table. And either guide system will do a respectable job.