L-N chisel handle help, please

[Scott Stafford]

Over the last couple years I've slowly purchased an almost complete set of Lie-Nielsen chisels. And I love almost everything about them. What I don't like is during the cold, dry Montana winters every time I take one out of the cabinet the handle falls off. I have repeatedly tapped the butt of the chisel on my bench sharply, and soon after the handle is loose again. BTW, the chisels are stored at no less than sixty degrees.

I am hesitant to epoxy the handles on as it would greatly hinder the handle replacement should I ever need to. I also wonder if any bonding substance I put in won't affect the dynamics or "feel" of the chisel.

Will this Hornbeam ever stop contracting or slipping? Any input?

Thanks,
Scott in Montana

[Erik Manchester]

Wood will move with the seasonal variation in humidity and will never really stop. However, epoxy is a great way to prevent the damage to a nice chisel :(, or your foot :eek::eek:.

Epoxy will not damage the metal or the wood and the bond may be broken with the addition of some heat should it ever be required. I highly recommend it.

Erik

[Mike Henderson]

Harry S recommended rosin as a way to keep handles in.

I had to epoxy a cocobolo handle that I made. I just figure that if I ever want to take it off, I'll cut it off, drill it out, and make a new handle.

Mike

[Cocobolo is oily and doesn't stay in the socket well. Also, the sockets on LN chisels are smooth. On old chisels, the sockets are rusted and pitted and handles stay in better.]

[Jim Koepke]

This is curios at many levels. In my experience with older chisels, the problem has been getting handles off, and these do not have any glue.

Could it be that the inside of the socket on an older chisel has a bit more bite due to years of oxidation?

Maybe the finish on the inside of the socket is too smooth on the newer chisels.

When making handles for my chisels, they are checked and adjusted so there is maximum contact between the wood and socket. I have never glued the handles to the sockets and as yet have not had them come apart without effort.

I am wondering if there is something you could put on the handles to give them a better grip without being a glue. Another possibility would be to just use a spot of epoxy to secure the handle.

The LN chisel video even mentions picking up the chisels from a rack by the socket and not the handle.

jim

[James Taglienti]

I have never seen in person a LN socket chisel. I'd be willing to bet that the socket is milled, but i could be wrong. in my older vintage socket chisels the socket has a rough forged interior, with surface rust and burrs, making for some serious bite. still i have had problems rehandling with exotic woods that want to take a high polish and almost always become burnished when under pressure from steel. i also don't know about the properties of hornbeam. if you put some epoxy in there, it shouldnt hinder rehandling much at all. it could be scraped out without much effort i would guess. i have also had some luck folding a bit of sandpaper in half and tucking it in there, then pounding in the handle. the grit on both sides grips the steel and the wood.

[Scott Stafford]

Yep, quite smooth on the inside of the socket.

I just went out and wiped down a socket and handle with mineral spirits, then tapped it home firmly. Maybe this will work?

Scott in Montana

[Kent A Bathurst]

I had (have?) the same problem with my LN mortise chisels. From the LN site:

"Re-Seating Handles: When your Chisels arrive, the handles may be loose because of wood shrinkage. They may also loosen during dry weather. The handles are held in place by the wedging of the wood into the tapered socket. Just rap the chisel handle upside down to re-seat the handle (some people find loose handles annoying and prefer to glue them in). "


I've rapped a couple times. If one comes out again, its gonna be CA time. "Annoying" is not the word I'd use - Had a near miss with a chisel that departed the handle and headed directly to the concrete floor - fortunately, it landed jelly-side up, so no damage to the pointy end.

[Jeff Willard]

Years ago I ran across a product called "Quake Wax". It's used by museums to anchor objects to a base. It's really nothing more than a very sticky wax, and it holds pretty well. I put a small dollop in the socket of each of my Lie-Nielsen chisels, and don't worry about it at all. It's fairly expensive for what it is, but it's sold in small quantities, and a little goes a long way. Comes in handy for temporarily fixing things in place in the shop, and around the home. Seems to be sold at brick and mortar establishments in quake prone areas, but don't know about Montana. Here is one online source:

http://store.shopreadyamerica.com/quwaxorfo7.html

Just noticed that they have a 2 oz. size for about $5. Prolly more than you will ever need.

[Richard Niemiec]

When my LN chisels came, I took out my medium sized mallet and gave each of the handles a healthy whack to set each of them, and since then they haven't come loose. If they were to, I'd take a very thin shaving, put some yellow glue on it by rubbing it in between my fingers, just a couple of drops or so, and put that in the socket then put in the handle and whack it in again. I've done this with other socket chisels and its always worked for me. I'd rather not epoxy.

[Darnell Hagen]

I've wrapped the handle with a layer of masking tape, then seated it firmly. This holds fine, and is non-marring.

I think the rest of the suggestions would work, too, except for the CA. CA is a brittle glue, I don't think it would hold up to a mallet blow. The steel to wood bond wouldn't be great, either.

[Larry Marshall]

The advantage of socket chisels is the ease with which you can remove/replace the handles. On socket chisels that haven't been pounded on a lot, this is also their downfall as the handles can come off.

The best advice I've heard regarding socket chisels is to get in the habit of picking them up by the socket, not the handle. Once this becomes second nature, the "problem" just disappears, even though you can still pull the handles out during dry weather :-)

Cheers --- Larry

[George Moore]

A small dab of marine sealant works great in holding them in place. And it is easy to get the handles out if the need ever arises.

This is what I use on my L-N chisels.

Have a Blessed and wonderful day.
George

[Doug Shepard]

I just went ahead and used some West epoxy on mine. Had too many bobbles that I was able to stop before they hit the floor, fortunately without also skewering myself.

[Gary Herrmann]

Another vote for pitcher's rosin.

[James Taglienti]

I don't think i'd use yellow glue, it always seems to rust whatever it gets onto.... nor would i use CA... that seems too brittle, if you're striking and prying etc...

[Kent A Bathurst]

........nor would i use CA... that seems too brittle, if you're striking and prying etc...

Good point, James - hadn't thought of that. Thanks.

[David Gendron]

I had the same problem with mine, espacialy the one I don't use as often. So I think the more you pound on them the better it is. Some thing you could do is wraping the wedge with carpet tape(two sided tape) it would hold them in place and be easy enough to remove them(handles).

[george wilson]

I think the suggestions of stuff like marine sealant,or something that stays flexible,is the best idea.

[lowell holmes]

If you want to see what Lie Nielsen has to say about this issue, check the following link.

http://www.youtube.com/user/lienielsen#p/c/C1C60D215C96E1B3/3/pd-l0dREc9Y

I have and use Lie Nielsen bevel edge and mortise chisels. This really has not been a problem for me. If the handle comes loose, I just put it back in the socket and rap the bench a couple of times to seat it.

[Scott Stafford]

Very timely that Lie-Nielsen would release this video.

I went out to the shop this morning and out of curiosity I took each of each of my L-N chisels off of its magnetic holder/shelf to see if the handle was loose or would fall off; eleven out of twenty-four did without prompting. This is after being seated with several good whacks of a mallet into a piece of ash at the beginning of last week.

So I'm trying this. I've taken all of the chisels apart and cleaned the sockets thoroughly with mineral spirits and then cleaned the handles' ends with a good dose of alcohol. After the surfaces dried I reinserted the handles and again whacked them home.

I'm hoping that since February is our driest month here in the north it might be when the handles have contracted the most. I was also thinking that there may have been a residue from the manufacturing process left in the sockets; maybe an oil that was resistent to my initial wiping? So with the handles at they're driest state and known clean sockets, maybe this time I'll get greater adhesion.

If this doesn't yield some improvement, I'll move onto some of the other good ideas presented here. It just seems that when I've had a devil of a time getting the handles off of my old socket chisels, I'd have a bit of that curse here when I need it.

Thanks to all for your good suggestions!

Scott in Montana