Veneering???

[John Terefenko]

I want to start doing some veneering and figure the first place to start is with tools. So what do I need???

I am thinking I need a vaccuum bag so what is a good one and should I get a couple different sizes??? Also what glues do I need??? I am also thinking saws, what saw do I need???

Anything else??

Thanks.

[Mike Henderson]

Pick up the book "Woodworker's Guide to Veneering and Inlay (http://www.amazon.com/Woodworkers-Guide-Veneering-Inlay-Techniques/dp/1565233468/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265432060&sr=8-1)" and read that before you buy anything.

Start with some small panels which you can press without a vacuum bag. Not everyone can do veneer - it's tedious work that requires great precision - so find out if it's your cup of tea before you spend a lot of money.

Mike

[Van Huskey]

I agree with what Mike says and for some online reading try joewoodworker.com

[Thomas S Stockton]

I think the book Mike recommends would be a good start also the web site www.joewoodworker.com is good for info on building your own system www.vacupress.com is good for supplies.
Vacupress also has a couple of videos that people seem to like and they have a forum on their site that is good.
You really only need one bag, you can always roll up the part you don't need. They sell special veneer saws that work well, I find an x-acto knife is useful also. Most my jointing of veneers is done with a router and flush trim bits although a shooting board and handplane work well for short pieces.
I usually use yellow glue for veneering but for difficult veneers I prefer unibond which vacu press sells.
You can do a fair amount of smaller work with out a press you just need some clamps, 3/4 melamine and cauls to spread the clamping pressure.
The one thing I would disagree with Mike about is that veneering is tedious work. If your just doing panels it is fairly simple, there is a little bit of a learning curve but it is not bad and vacuum pressing has made it much easier than in the past. Yes it can get tedious but if you start out small it is easy to work your way up without a lot of problems. The other nice thing about vacuum pressing is that it lets you do curved work much easier than any other method I've found.
Tom

[Richard Dragin]

Start with some small panels which you can press without a vacuum bag. Not everyone can do veneer - it's tedious work that requires great precision - so find out if it's your cup of tea before you spend a lot of money.

Now you tell me! I just did exactly the opposite and jumped in with both feet. I just yesterday ordered from Joe Woodworker (same as Veneer Supplies) a V2 kit, 4x4 poly bag and a starter tools and supply kit.

I plan on doing flat panels to begin with and expanding from there. I also want to use it for some of my cold laminated parts instead of all the clamps I now use. I've been known to have some patience so I think I'll take to it just fine. If I have any problems I may even take one of Mike's classes!

[John Terefenko]

Good information here. I am going to read the web site mentioned. Looks like alot of good info there. I am going to a woodworking show in 2 weeks so I will be able to pick up the book and also some veneer. I want to start playing around with it. Thanks.

[Bill Davis]

I built my vacuum setup from Joe woodworker's info and learned a tremendous amount from the excellent articles on his web site. He explains clearly and made my first veneering experience a good one.

[Erik Christensen]

got the whole setup from him - pump & kit, bags, veneer saw & glue, etc etc.

everything works great - some learning curve but not near as much as other parts of this hobby (after 6 months still trying to learn how to use my jointer to give consistent results for example). I picked up some sample veneers and first time I used it, the stuff worked perfectly - the ONLY skill part is learning how to trim/book-match the veneer sheets to get a flawless edge without tears or splits then veneer tape it to keep it from moving. Once you get your veneer sheet prepped the rest of the process is almost goof-proof (speaking as a goof expert) - just roll out an even coat of veneer glue, plop the veneer sheet on the substrate, put a couple of pieces of blue tape to keep it from moving, chuck it into the bag, close it, hook up pump & turn on. something even I can do with consistently good results.

a vacuum bag & pump does lots of other cool stuff - for instance it makes creating a torsion box without visible fasteners ridiculously easy. All my tool stands (drum sander, RAS, etc) were made this way - an invisible 23 gauge pin at each corner to keep things from moving while transferring the box to the bag is all it takes and the glue does the rest.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I make and apply a lot of veneers of Stickley style inlays (marquetry) and use a vac bag. Clamping works just as well for smaller parts but when I can work the surface a bit as the vacuum is drawn I get better results.

Use a glue made for the job and apply just enough to get a moist, tacky surface. I use a 4" wide rubber roller to spread the glue and roll North/South then East/West until the surface is coated with about as much glue as if you were putting latex paint on the wall. After a minute remove what you don't need if it's soupy. Roll it out until you can just leave a finger print on the surface, but with no dry spots. If you drag your finger and get a furrow, that's too much and too wet. This will take a few minutes, the goal is to evaporate some of the moisture. In this case, more glue isn't better.
.

[Alan Wright]

I went to Joe's site as well and learned a ton. My question is... do you folke use veneer for small stuff only, or do you veneer panels. I just got a 19" Grizzly bandsaw, so I now have the tool to cut veneers. I can see myself veneerning panels for backs of cabinets etc..

I also want to build mission kitchen cabinets and replace the builder cabinet's that came with my home. If I could veneer the QSWO to a substrate, it would save me a ton of money. Is this a "feasable" use for vacuum pressed veneers for the home shop? If it is, I'll invest in a vacuum press and work on the learning curve.

Thanks

Alan

[Matt Day]

Bags are probably even better for big panels than small stuff (it's much harder to use clamps for a large panel and get even pressure).

Veneering is a lot of fun and can open up a lot of possbilities.

And I'll put in another vote for joe woodworker. Great site, great info, and a good guy to buy from. Try not to drool over your computer monitor when looking at the veneers though :)

[Mike Henderson]

Joe Woodworker is a good site - I purchased all the parts for my vacuum set up (actually two systems), including bags.

My experience in buying veneer from him has not been quite as good. I buy most of my veneer from Certainly Wood and can recommend them.

Mike

[Dewald van Lamp]

Joe has a very informative site.

I bought my stuff from him as well, but had to have him forward it to a States addy as he does not deal with Africans. I received it in the end, and thank him for it. Lotsa fraud going on here, so I'm quite OK with it.

I've only been doing cold press veneering, but I am loving it!

It sure is different! And pretty much instant gratification when you get an "exotic" burl panel overnight!

I'm not going for the vacuum bag at this stage. I only do small projects, but I would like to work up to it in future!

Pretty much exploring the last frontiers...

;)

[Van Huskey]

I went to Joe's site as well and learned a ton. My question is... do you folke use veneer for small stuff only, or do you veneer panels. I just got a 19" Grizzly bandsaw, so I now have the tool to cut veneers. I can see myself veneerning panels for backs of cabinets etc..

I also want to build mission kitchen cabinets and replace the builder cabinet's that came with my home. If I could veneer the QSWO to a substrate, it would save me a ton of money. Is this a "feasable" use for vacuum pressed veneers for the home shop? If it is, I'll invest in a vacuum press and work on the learning curve.

Thanks

Alan

Vacuum bags were "made" for large panels. For me large panels are much easier than small stuff at the glueing end of the process. The issues for larger panels is cutting and matching all the pieces, the more narrow the flitches are cut the harder it gets .

[Joe Gorleski]

Joe Woodworker is a good site - I purchased all the parts for my vacuum set up (actually two systems), including bags.

My experience in buying veneer from him has not been quite as good. I buy most of my veneer from Certainly Wood and can recommend them.

Mike

Hey Mike,

You'll have to refresh my memory. Where did I do you wrong with veneer?

Joe
VeneerSupplies.com

[Mike Henderson]

Hey Mike,

You'll have to refresh my memory. Where did I do you wrong with veneer?

Joe
VeneerSupplies.com
I'll reply by PM.

Mike

[Dan O'Sullivan]

Mike I like CW too. I cut most of my veneer to get the extra thickness. I am on the edge for a JWW press. I was thinking of getting a venturi package but I am rethinking. Maybe the vacuum pump is the better route?? I don't want the compressor grinding away for long periods.
I have read that Joe's reman pumps are good?? Any inputs?
dan

[Mike Henderson]

I have one of Joe's rebuilt pumps and it's worked fine for me. I don't see anything wrong with a rebuilt pump if its done well. I'm sure Joe wouldn't be selling them if he was getting a lot of complaints.

Mike

[Joe Gorleski]

Dan,

Mike is right. I wouldnt sell them if I had complaints. There's already quite a bit of email in my inbox every hour so I wouldnt want more for the sake of making a buck on a bad pump. It wouldnt be worth it, I wouldnt ruin any reputation I have, and honestly its just not how I do things.

I've shipped several hundred of these pumps and to date, I've had only two bad ones. One of those was unmistakably bad. It only pulled half of the pressure it should have. I fixed it with two drops of oil and then Ebay'd it. The other pump was suspicious. I suspect it was dropped and the housing was bent causing the piston to stop turning. In both cases, the customers got quick replacements.

Attached is a picture of the pumps in my garage when I got my first batch. This bunch are long since gone and I've continued to order more and more when they are available (not often enough). I wouldn't continue to make the insane "investment" in these if I didnt have faith that they were reliable and durable vacuum pumps.

Cheers,
Joe



I have one of Joe's rebuilt pumps and it's worked fine for me. I don't see anything wrong with a rebuilt pump if its done well. I'm sure Joe wouldn't be selling them if he was getting a lot of complaints.

Mike

[Richard Dragin]

I told my woodworking buddy that I ordered the vacuum press and he said he had good news for me. I went to his shop today and he showed me all of the veneer pictured below that was GIVEN to him. He told me to take whatever I wanted and even though I really wanted the curly maple I opted for some zebra and curly ash.

The first photo is everything he was given. The tall roll is about eight sheets of paper backed mahogany 8X4. The rest is zebra, curly maple, quarter sawn ash, curly ash..... The flitches seem to have about 15 or 20 sheets and some of the rolls seem to be multiple flitches. A LOT of veneer and he told me to come back for more when I need it.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j147/DraginRichard/Camera005.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j147/DraginRichard/Camera007.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j147/DraginRichard/Camera011.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j147/DraginRichard/Camera015.jpg

Question: Should I unroll it and store it flat or wait till a few days before I use it. Anything else I should do with it in the meantime?

[Mike Henderson]

Couple of comments:

1. Congratulations on your good luck, and your generous buddy.

2. Don't use paper backed veneer on furniture. The veneer is way too thin.

3. Many people recommend storing veneer flat. However, that's not practical for most of us - we just don't have room. I store my veneer rolled up and unroll it right before use. It has a bit of a curl because it was rolled up but it's not a problem in use. Most people use some tape to hold the veneer panel to the substrate when you slide it into the bag (so the veneer doesn't shift in the process) and that helps to keep it down until the press takes care of it.

If you store veneer flat and it's not really out of the way, what usually happens is that you bump it and break the ends up pretty bad. If you're going to store it flat, make sure it's really out of the way.

Mike

[Richard Dragin]

Thanks Mike and you'll be glad to know I'm sure he'll be donating a bunch to Cerritos. He's takes classes there and really speaks highly of the place and people. Probably why there were cloud lifts on all his furniture. :)

[Craig Feuerzeig]

Don't fear veneer.

Veneer work is not tricky and anyone can do it. Veneer is just wood. It's just wood sliced thin. You're gluing 2 pieces of wood together, nothing more.

And you don't need power tools or expensive machinery to do it... unless as Mike stated you are doing large panels. You just need an effective means of spreading clamping pressure.

Curved cauls are your friend. Make a simple press with a couple of cheap clamps, using some scrap MDF platens to make a sandwich, either with cauls on top and bottom... or cauls on top pressing down to a flat rigid surface.