Is this a buying opportunity: Toyota?

[Prashun Patel]

Is this the right time to buy Toyota stock???

Personally, I believe a) they'll navigate through this, b) they have good basic products, c) they are at least as good as their competition - or their competition is at least as bad as they are, d) If it ever came to it, they'd probably get support from the Japanese Govt that'd make the US auto bailout look like chump change.

That being said, I stink at picking the bottom...

[Ken Garlock]

This morning the Fox Business channel said that Toyota will spend about 2 billion fixing their problem, and still expect to make a profit.

I have never heard of anyone complaining about their Toyota. I am sure there are some, I haven't encountered them.

This whole gas petal problem just goes to show how stupid people are. One with a positive IQ knows that you put the car in neutral and pull off the road, while lightly applying the brakes. Yes, the engine will red line, but the engines have a max RPM governor so that the engine is not ruined.
I was appalled that the California state patrol officer didn't know to do that. There was absolutely no reason for him to be reaching 120 mph and no reason for his family and him to die.:(

[Mitchell Andrus]

Is this the right time to buy Toyota stock???

That being said, I stink at picking the bottom...

Can't say if this is the bottom yet,

Does anyone remember (no peeking) which tire mfgr had tires rupturing off of which car companies SUV's rims? Anyone still boycotting Exxon gas stations? The public has a short memory.

Buy Toyota, but buy automotive stocks in general. There is a HUGE pent-up demand in new cars coming. Cars wear out. Period.
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[Brian Kent]

I look at the Toyota stock price over the last 10 years. It has been both a lot higher and a lot lower than now. The highs were before the recession. I think it would still be a gamble.

Ken, check out a Lexus website. Look at pictures of the interior. It is a rental car that is going haywire. You reach for the keys and you have to push a button for 3 seconds to turn it off, unlike any car you've driven. You are slamming on the brakes and they aren't working. You try to pull straight back on the stick like your own car to put it in neutral. (See picture) And times up.

[Prashun Patel]

Firestone. It was on the Ford Explorers.

Most of my neighbors are experienced Finance types working for the likes of Goldman Sachs, etc. When GM and Chrystler took the loan money from the govt and Ford did not, I thought it was a signal that Ford was strong.

I made the mistake of asking them if it was a good time 2 buy. They gave me all kinds of financial reasons why it didn't make sense. Of course, I did nothing. I shoulda listened to my gut.

Gonna do that now!!!

[Zach England]

Can't say if this is the bottom yet,

Does anyone remember (no peeking) which tire mfgr had tires rupturing off of which car companies SUV's rims? Anyone still boycotting Exxon gas stations? The public has a short memory.

Buy Toyota, but buy automotive stocks in general. There is a HUGE pent-up demand in new cars coming. Cars wear out. Period.
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Firestone?

[Tom Godley]

Toyota has taken a hit ......it has given up over half of its gains for the previous year -- but I think that Ford has greater upside potential. JMO

I am a bit surprised at the way Toyota has handled all of this -- they have allowed this to turn into a real nightmare. I believe this is going to hurt them.


We currently have two Lexi (plural for Luxus :)) in the fleet. One is an older 00 ES300 that is just an unbelievable car with 185K on it. The other is an 05 ES330, that has been completely trouble free for 60k.....But, it has the worst gas petal response of any car I have ever driven. You must drive the car with this in mind or you cannot drive it smooth. It is most noticeable in stop and go traffic and when you slide through a stop sign. Toyota/Lexus knows about this problem and they have not fixed it - as it occurs in almost all the later models to some degree. I do not drive either car on a regular basis and I am not sure I would have kept the 05 if I drove it much.

Lexus has only recalled some models and only for the floor mat problem - mine are not included in this recall.

[Brian Kent]

Shawn, in November 2008 several people in my office each put in $100 for GM and Ford stock, thinking we would look either mildly stupid or really smart. It was a risk we could live with.

We each got 20 shares of GM for about $2.50 each and 25 shares of Ford for about $1.50 each. The GM is now worth $.60 as "MLTQQ" but the Ford is worth $11/share. So we each have $275 and look reasonably smart. Later I got 30 shares of Fannie Mae for about a buck each. Now they are worth about a buck each. My investment - $130. Now worth $300, which I may donate to Lie Nielsen or my local hardwood store someday.

Now if I could have bought a million shares of Ford… :rolleyes:

I'm satisfied to look mildly smart.

[John Shuk]

well it closed at $71.78 today. The 52 week low was about $51. They are still predicting a profit so I don't think there has been a loss of faith in the company.
Personally I would still consider a Toyota if I were in the market for a vehicle.

[Ken Garlock]

---- SNIP----

Ken, check out a Lexus website. Look at pictures of the interior. It is a rental car that is going haywire. You reach for the keys and you have to push a button for 3 seconds to turn it off, unlike any car you've driven. You are slamming on the brakes and they aren't working. You try to pull straight back on the stick like your own car to put it in neutral. (See picture) And times up.

Hi Brian. I have driven my daughters Lexus ES350, and it seemed like a very reasonable car. But on the other hand it is only a 40,000 dollar model. The LS series is no doubt a more bell and whistle model. I did read through the specification on the top of the line LS and didn't see anything that would lead me to believe you can't stop the car even with a stuck gas pedal. Yes there are a lot of electronic assists but they seem to be just that, assists. I must say that they have a very busy dash board.
That gear selector is a joke, too much crap to do a simple job.:eek: M/B and Chrysler have a nice little center console shift lever, Park, reverse, neutral, and drive. Once in drive, to control the gear you are in you tap the lever left or right. So simple even a caveman could do it.:)

[Jason Roehl]

I'm with you Ken--drivers should know this stuff. I've believed for years now that drivers are way, way under-trained (and under-tested). The driving skills that are taught are little more than aiming the wheeled missile down the road and parallel parking. What drivers really need to learn from the get-go is a bunch of different emergency maneuvers.

I had never really though about it until this recall hit the news, but I asked my wife if she knew what to do--she didn't (now does). I was never taught specifically, but I just knew, partly because I've driven a pretty wide slice of vehicles, from large trucks to cars, trucks, motorcycles, various farm implements, forklifts, skidsteers, etc. What stuck out from my driver's ed times, though, was that my teacher did say at one time, "If you're going to have an accident, drive it to the end." I suppose it's helped that I've fooled around in icy parking lots, took a few classes at the School of Hard Knocks, and driven several vehicles that had some, shall we say, mechanical quirks.

[Myk Rian]

Firestone?
Yes, Firestone. And then that idiot we had on the 12th floor (Jac Nassar) cut all ties with Firestone. He did more harm than good no matter what he tried.

[Chuck Wintle]

Is this the right time to buy Toyota stock???

Personally, I believe a) they'll navigate through this, b) they have good basic products, c) they are at least as good as their competition - or their competition is at least as bad as they are, d) If it ever came to it, they'd probably get support from the Japanese Govt that'd make the US auto bailout look like chump change.

That being said, I stink at picking the bottom...
Shawn,

I agree with you that Toyota will come through this stronger than ever. I believe it has been blown out of proportion by the media.

[Belinda Barfield]

The driving skills that are taught are little more than aiming the wheeled missile down the road and parallel parking. What drivers really need to learn from the get-go is a bunch of different emergency maneuvers.

I had never really though about it until this recall hit the news, but I asked my wife if she knew what to do--she didn't (now does). I was never taught specifically, but I just knew, partly because I've driven a pretty wide slice of vehicles, from large trucks to cars, trucks, motorcycles, various farm implements, forklifts, skidsteers, etc. What stuck out from my driver's ed times, though, was that my teacher did say at one time, "If you're going to have an accident, drive it to the end." I suppose it's helped that I've fooled around in icy parking lots, took a few classes at the School of Hard Knocks, and driven several vehicles that had some, shall we say, mechanical quirks.

Jason,
I agree with you regarding the skills taught to young drivers, although most probably wouldn't remember what to do in an emergency, or would be too busy texting. :eek:

I did have a chuckle over your comment about driving vehicles with "mechanical quirks". I've had a few of those myself. I grew up driving around the farm, on sandy curvy roads, through mud pits, etc. I also drove with a stick shift for years. I think people who have driven with a stick are more likely to think "shift to neutral". I'm not saying I would handle a stuck gas pedal any better than the next person, but I hope if it ever happens to me I will remember how to react.

Sorry, strayed off thread for a bit.

[Scott Shepherd]

It was mentioned that someone died from the gas pedal issue in a previous post. For the record, the CEO of Toyota in the USA was on the news a couple of mornings ago and said there are 2 issues. One was the floor mat getting stuck under the gas pedal and that was a recall. He said people had actually been injured or killed as a result of that.

However, the sticking gas pedal was a recall that had no actual wrecks, injuries, or deaths caused by it, it was a measure taking to correct a rare problem that happens over time, and it's not related to any injuries or even accidents.

So two completely different events going on. The second one, they said was a very rare thing to have happen and it only affected a very small number of cars, but they were recalling all of them.

So the major recall isn't to correct something that's killing or hurting people, it's a safety measure to make sure it doesn't lead to anything worse down the road.

That's what he said, I'm just restating it.

[Bruce King]

Hi everyone, first post on here, :) looking forward to reading more threads etc.

I am also looking at toyota stock but advise waiting at least another 4-8 weeks to see if other recalls are coming. There is a very strong chance that they will have to make changes to either the throttle position hardware, firmware and or shielding for EMI issues before this is over. The problem reports do not all match a stuck pedal since the pedal would only stick in the last max position if it was a friction problem. Other failures could cause the WOT signal to max out. Some cars have safety logic to decrease the fuel supply when certain conditions are present but these are reported to not have any. Some times engineers and technicians are so thrilled to find "the problem" that they do not realize it is just one of the problems they found.

[Walt Nicholson]

I know even less about stocks than I know about what makes my wife tick, but there are an awful lot of problems just starting to surface for Toyota that makes me think the stock is going to drop a lot more before it starts back up. The media is really feeding on all of this and a lot of the problems that were not brought to light in the past are coming out. CBS had a big segment last night on the former Toyota attorney that is claiming a huge cover-up by Toyota of info in several roll over death suits that are now being re-opened. The Federal investigation starts next week that seeks to prove Toyota knew about the sudden accelleration problems for several years and did nothing. Class action suits surfacing all over the country over Tundra frames rusting, steering arms breaking, Prius brakes, the buy back by Toyota of 3.5 million Lexus, Camry and Avalon units because of defective engines. Steve Wozniak (the Apple Computer guy) claims he can prove computer caused accelleration in his Prius, and on and on. Whether any or all of these these claims prove out in court, the press about it is really going to hurt sales and cost Toyota mega bucks for defense. Now, if a teeny bopper rear ends someone because they were texting and not watching the road, they'll sue claiming sudden accelleration or bad brakes. I think the stock is going to take a bigger hit yet. Just my 2 cents.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I think the stock is going to take a bigger hit yet. Just my 2 cents.

I hope this doesn't cause Americans to change their buying habits too much. Toyota employs many Americans all around the world. Those who wouldn't buy an American car from the Big 3 if their life depended on it may switch from Toyota to another foreign owned maker, one who isn't as American-worker friendly or worse, creates zero American jobs other than the salesmen.

I'd hate to see this become the entry point for a Chinese car maker.

Long live Toyota, at least it's we know what we're getting and some of the dollars that are spent.
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[Dave Schreib]

This whole gas petal problem just goes to show how stupid people are. One with a positive IQ knows that you put the car in neutral and pull off the road, while lightly applying the brakes. Yes, the engine will red line, but the engines have a max RPM governor so that the engine is not ruined.
I was appalled that the California state patrol officer didn't know to do that. There was absolutely no reason for him to be reaching 120 mph and no reason for his family and him to die.:(

That's a little rough Ken. Cant say as I understand why he couldnt get the car in neutral or shut off either, but maybe it wasnt his own stupidity. I can see myself cruising along at 60, come up on a red light, get on the brakes about 100 yds away ... but if the breaks dont work I suspect that I will be at that light before I have the presence of mind to get into neutral or shut off. And even if I did, the car is still cruising along at 60 mph. I am probably going to hit whatever is up ahead at that intersection. Maybe you wouldnt, but apparently many other Americans arent as smart as you.

[Walt Nicholson]

Dave, I agree with you 100%. From the reports, he was already moving in traffic (60 to 65 mph) so 60 to 100+ in that car is less that 5 seconds. He wasn't on a vacant road with nothing in front of him. He was hurtling through slower moving traffic trying to avoid hitting anything, pushing the brakes as hard as he could and he was expected to (in seconds) calmly take one hand off the wheel, move the complicated, gated shifter back to neutral or hold the button on the dash down for a full 3 seconds (the time he went from 100 to 120 perhaps). I think he did a remarkable job of avoiding as many other cars as he did and would challenge anyone to do the same under the circumstances. Formula race cars (the ones that have to dodge slower traffic and high speeds) have paddle shifters mounted on the steering wheel to eliminate the distraction of moving one hand off the wheel at those speeds. We shoud not blatantly judge someone else's decisions in a crisis situation without considering all the facts.

[Brian Kent]

I have had a new honda for a year now and the door unlock switch is in a different position than my previous cars. I still do what I am used to doing and push a button instead of pull, every time I am helping unlock the passenger door.

Although Toyota / Lexus has great products I can imagine that maybe he did try to shift to neutral and pulled straight back instead of working it through the oddly positioned gates.

[John Coloccia]

I'm a bit concerned that Japan is investigating them too. Maybe I'm out of touch, but that seems very out of character for the Japanese government to so publicly announce an investigation of a Japanese company. I need to do more research on this, but definitely struck me as odd, and makes me wonder what's brewing. My pet theory is that there's a whistle blower somewhere, and that the Japanese already know what they're going to find or this would all be done very quietly and discretely like everything else.

I love a good conspiracy :)

[Horton Brasses]

Without digging into the stock/P&L/balance sheet type info I would agree with the OP-this is a buy signal if that's your style. In the beginning of March 2009 a columnist I read on Forbes say a sign on a window of a restaurant in an upscale Arizona town (Flagstaff, Prescott, not sure exactly) offering "depression chili" for a buck a bowl or something. He wrote at the time that this was the biggest buy signal he had ever seen. It was about a week before the dead bottom of the stock market on March 9 or so. He was right. This seems like that moment for Toyota even if the stock is not at rock bottom.

Truth be told-the time to buy a new (or used) Toyota will about 1 day after they have the fix and are allowed to start selling cars again. The discounts will be as big as they get with Toyota trying to get back market share and cash flow and the dealers desperate to move some inventory. I wonder if Toyota is covering the floor plan cost for all the dealers that are paying interest on new cars they cannot sell. Anyone know?

[Jerome Hanby]

That's a little rough Ken. Cant say as I understand why he couldnt get the car in neutral or shut off either, but maybe it wasnt his own stupidity. I can see myself cruising along at 60, come up on a red light, get on the brakes about 100 yds away ... but if the breaks dont work I suspect that I will be at that light before I have the presence of mind to get into neutral or shut off. And even if I did, the car is still cruising along at 60 mph. I am probably going to hit whatever is up ahead at that intersection. Maybe you wouldnt, but apparently many other Americans arent as smart as you.

If this is the same guy that was on that 911 call, I have to side with Ken. Taking the time time and spending the effort to call 911 instead of stopping the car by any means necessary does seem a little stupid. I feel bad for all those hurt and/or killed by the accident, I sure wish the guy had been by himself.

Heinlien wrote: Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime: the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.

[Walt Nicholson]

If you research the information properly you will find that it was a passenger in the car (wife or daughter) who made the 911 call. Not a person trying to control a speeding vehicle. Condemming someone without all the facts doesn't seem fair.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Heinlien wrote: Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime: the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.

Walt's correct. WOW! Stupid.....? I think you don't really meant that.

Heinlien also wrote: Never insult anyone by accident.
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[Glenn Clabo]

Enough...take it outside folks.