Need Help pricing a job

[Chris McGee]

Hello all, doing a built in for someone (don't do this type of work much) and just wanted some input on pricing both from professional builders/ installers and homeowners (what you would expect to pay). Attached some renderings I did in Sketchup. Construction will be of paint grade plywood with poplar face-frames. I don't need material estimates just what you think you would charge in labor to build and install in ready to be painted form. Upper cabinet in two parts with 8 adjustable shelves (shelves of 1/4 and 3/4 ply laminated together with a poplar front edge). Base cab in two parts with 4 slide out boxes and 3 adjustable shelves, doors of poplar and mdf w/ euro hinges. Labor also includes installing under cabinet lights. Countertop to be installed by stone company.

Homeowners, what would you expect to pay for this installed and painted?
Installers, what would you charge to build/install this (not including materials)?
thanks,
Chris

[Craig D Peltier]

Hello all, doing a built in for someone (don't do this type of work much) and just wanted some input on pricing both from professional builders/ installers and homeowners (what you would expect to pay). Attached some renderings I did in Sketchup. Construction will be of paint grade plywood with poplar face-frames. I don't need material estimates just what you think you would charge in labor to build and install in ready to be painted form. Upper cabinet in two parts with 8 adjustable shelves (shelves of 1/4 and 3/4 ply laminated together with a poplar front edge). Base cab in two parts with 4 slide out boxes and 3 adjustable shelves, doors of poplar and mdf w/ euro hinges. Labor also includes installing under cabinet lights. Countertop to be installed by stone company.

Homeowners, what would you expect to pay for this installed and painted?
Installers, what would you charge to build/install this (not including materials)?
thanks,
Chris

How wide is it?

[Ellen Benkin]

Since you know the cost of the materials, I'd want to know how many person-hours it will take to complete the job. Figure out your labor charges and add them to the material costs and see if that total makes sense to you and your client.

[Chris McGee]

its 5 1/2 ft wide the top cab is 5 ft tall

[Caleb Larru]

I would rethink solid doors if there is really going to be electronics in there. You need ventilation and most likely remote accessibility.

[Jeremy Brant]

From the homeowner perspective (and someone who is pretty new to woodworking but not home repairs), for something paint-grade to be installed I would be willing to pay 1000-1200, plus the countertop.

[Todd Hoppe]

not to alter the course of the thread, but why laminate the 1/4 to the 3/4"?

It would probably be stronger if you added a poplar edge front and back, or used a slightly wider poplar front edge (e.g. 1.5")

[johnny means]

I'm a fulltime woodworker and I would charge $3000 for labor on a job like this figure in another $500 for materials and you've got $3500 total which is more than fair in my neck of the woods (Philadelphia area). This wood cover approximately five days labor and my shop expenses. For $1200 I would give them diretions to Ikea a screw driver and $1197 change.

[Chris McGee]

I would rethink solid doors if there is really going to be electronics in there. You need ventilation and most likely remote accessibility.

That was my concern too, so...

there will be vents in the base of the cabinet and a thermostatically controlled fan system (kicks on at 90deg) in the top left of the left cab that will blow through the wall into a stairwell, covered by a AC register in the stairwell.

[Chris McGee]

I'm a fulltime woodworker and I would charge $3000 for labor on a job like this figure in another $500 for materials and you've got $3500 total which is more than fair in my neck of the woods (Philadelphia area). This wood cover approximately five days labor and my shop expenses. For $1200 I would give them diretions to Ikea a screw driver and $1197 change.

Your price is more in line with what Im thinking. An Ikea cabinet with shelves and role out drawers in the neighborhood of this size would be about $1200 (plus the 8 hours it would take to assemble 500 pieces), so a custom install should obviously command a much better price.

one question, does your $3500 include painting? I have a friend (painter some 30 years) who says she can do all the paint for around $300

[Chris McGee]

not to alter the course of the thread, but why laminate the 1/4 to the 3/4"?

It would probably be stronger if you added a poplar edge front and back, or used a slightly wider poplar front edge (e.g. 1.5")

This is a good suggestion, I have been thinking about how these shelves will be constructed. They will be 30" long so I'm not too worried about sag. I kind of like the look of a solid 1" shelf, but it would be quicker (and stronger/ cheaper) to do a 3/4 shelf with a 3/4 x 1 1/2 or 1 1/4 front lip. Ahh the many details....

thanks for the ideas!!

[Roger Bullock]

Don't know your shop and tool setup but will guess that since this is the first time you have taken on such a project, you will not have all the necessary tools to complete the job quickly. Most projects like this are under estimated by new or first time builders. It may start as a fun learning project but if not enough upfront labor cost is figured, it will turn into a pain before it is all completed. I agree with Johnny, $3000 to $3500. If that is too rich for the homeowners, they will shop around and quickly get back to you if you are lower than the other guys.

Don't fall into the class of guys that say they didn't even make minimum wage once everything was said and done.

[johnny means]

Your price is more in line with what Im thinking. An Ikea cabinet with shelves and role out drawers in the neighborhood of this size would be about $1200 (plus the 8 hours it would take to assemble 500 pieces), so a custom install should obviously command a much better price.

one question, does your $3500 include painting? I have a friend (painter some 30 years) who says she can do all the paint for around $300

that price would include a professionally done laquer finish.

[Craig D Peltier]

I would happy to charge the client about 2500 for this job without materials an a lacquer based spray finish.At 3000 thats about 600 a foot , in this area thats a bit high.

[Chris McGee]

Thanks for all the input. I ended up bidding $2500 for labor $800 for materials (including $90 for electrical stuff, I do that too), and $350 for someone else to do the paint. The client seemed happy with this (bad sign, probably shoulda charged more:D) , and I'm happy.

[Glen Butler]

I think what you charged is about right. $3600 wouldn't have been unreasonable. My typical price for full height cabinetry would be at $4700. But minus for paint grade, and minus for no doors on the uppers, and you are about right.

[Brian Ross]

It is a good start but you do hate it when they jump at your price. I recently completed a Kitchen and noticed that the homeowner had placed a piece of tape where he had previously written the price on his set of plans.When we were looking at the plans he volunteered that he put the tape over the price as he did not want his friends to know how little he paid. On another job I bid $2900 on a 6 ft vanity. When I presented the quote they said we thought it would be at least $4000.Things like that you hate to hear. It is not a crime to make money.

Brian

[Stephen Edwards]

My attitude is to get as much as you can for your work. Of course, it's easier to do that if you're not depending on this for your living, especially in the beginning. I'm not talking about ripping people off, either. I don't want to be known as the guy who will always be the low bidder.

If you do quality work and if you work for people who care about such things, you should be able to make good money for your time. As Brian said, it's not a crime to make money!

You should do OK on this job and it'll also be a learning experience.

[Michael Prisbylla]

Whenever I'm doing a job that is new or novel to me and I don't have a lot of experience doing bids with it I always go time & materials for estimates. I build about a 20-25% fudge factor into the labor and a 20% markup on the materials for my time. One thing I highly recommend is keeping close track of your time and materials costs so you know afterward what you actually earned. Provides more data points for the next job you bid on.

[Josh Gilpatrick]

In my area custom cabinets run more like $300ish per foot for upper and lower finished including material + countertops. I cant imagine even charging $1500 for just the labor on something like that.

[johnny means]

In my area custom cabinets run more like $300ish per foot for upper and lower finished including material + countertops. I cant imagine even charging $1500 for just the labor on something like that.

Where is your area? How much would you charge for that job? You interested in subcontracting some work? LOL I would gladly sub out work like that at $500 at foot.

[Josh Gilpatrick]

I live in northwest missouri. Around here you just simply cant get away with trying to charge that much. Also tons of amish have flooded the area with cabinet shops and other general construction companies. Their style of living means they can produce a similar product at 1/2 of the cost. As a rule similar is pretty damn crude but people dont understand that. It is making it pretty rough on cabinet builders and carpenters in general around here.

[David Helm]

I got into this after it was too late, but, you really need to add markup and a fair profit percentage on top of the labor and materials. This is the area that makes a difference between making wages and making a living. As a 30 year builder/remodeler (general contractor who did most of the hands on work) it took me quite a while to realize this. It made a huge difference in my job satisfaction, and I never felt I was cheating myself.

[johnny means]

I live in northwest missouri. Around here you just simply cant get away with trying to charge that much. Also tons of amish have flooded the area with cabinet shops and other general construction companies. Their style of living means they can produce a similar product at 1/2 of the cost. As a rule similar is pretty damn crude but people dont understand that. It is making it pretty rough on cabinet builders and carpenters in general around here.

We have a strong Amish and Mennonite presence in my area (close to Philly) also around here also. But they are very business savvy and don't mind getting fair market prices on their products. They actually add a certain market value to woodwork originating in the area.

[Steve Griffin]

I'm in the middle I guess, which is not a bad place to be. I plugged this into my formulas found I'd charge $2000labor to build and install unpainted. In good times I'd add 10% profit to entire job. Nowadays, I don't add profit, and might even consider a 10% discount if I was low on work and needed the job. I'd rather be working than not I guess.

Good for you guys you can get $3000 labor for such a simple built-in-- that's a very respectable hourly wage!

-Steve

[Stephen Edwards]

The various replies and price differences just goes to show that what we can charge and expect to get depends on where we live.

[johnny means]

Good for you guys you can get $3000 labor for such a simple built-in-- that's a very respectable hourly wage!

-Steve

I wish? Please don't mistake labor charges for hourly take home. Once you take expenses and non shop time into account $3000 for 50 hours of shop time does not net me $60 an hour. Every single day that I have a shop cost me about $100 , whether I'm working or not. Then there's the other full time job of sales and marketing, which I cannot bill for. Then there's the tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment that had to be bought, if you're a professional this comes out of your bottom line. To be honest, if I really wanted to make a "respectable hourly wage" I would have to go work for someone else.