another woodcraft story

[Karl Card]

I had mentioned earlier about the guy at my local woodcraft here in evansville, in said that you could only use walnut oil on walnut, teak on teakwood and so on... Well i am standing there listening to him pitch his spill aobut a jet jointer. He told the customer jet was the only jointer that had a shelix cutter. I didnt say anything but I am thinking you are dead wrong because grizzly advertises that they also have a cutter head like that. He told the customer that others are not true shelix head because the little square blades meet the wood head on. I was thinking i just looked at grizzly catalogue and they show a diagram of how there blades are angles so they slice the wood instead of meeting it head on...

I tell ya I dont have a lot of self confidence but this guy really makes me feel good about what i do know.

[Eric DeSilva]

I had mentioned earlier about the guy at my local woodcraft here in evansville, in said that you could only use walnut oil on walnut, teak on teakwood and so on...

Dagnabbit. You mean I gotta go out and find me some cherry oil, and oak oil, and maple oil?

[Dan Friedrichs]

They go through all that work to squeeze the oak oil out of the oak, and then you want to go and put it back on. *sigh* Some people....

[Michael Peet]

Unless Grizzley's website is not up-to-date, or I'm looking in the wrong place, it still looks like Byrds are the only ones with cutters at an angle:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/category.aspx?key=240460

So is he still technically wrong because Powermatics have them too, or is Jet = PM because they are both owned by WMH? I'll give him half credit ;).

Mike

[Dave Lehnert]

Unless Grizzley's website is not up-to-date, or I'm looking in the wrong place, it still looks like Byrds are the only ones with cutters at an angle:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/category.aspx?key=240460

So is he still technically wrong because Powermatics have them too, or is Jet = PM because they are both owned by WMH? I'll give him half credit ;).

Mike

Or maybe the JET was the only jointer in HIS STORE that had one:confused:

[Bob Glenn]

Hey, Karl, ask him where you're suppose to use TUNG oil! :eek:

[Jeff Nolan]

my friend owns a couple of Woodcraft stores and he has said on many occasions that hiring and keeping good people remains his biggest challenge. I don't think this is all that different from any service or retail focused business.

[Glen Butler]

Hey, Karl, ask him where you're suppose to use TUNG oil! :eek:
Or linseed oil.

Grizzly has them both. Shelix heads are set at an angle spiral heads are square. Jet and PM have shelix heads and apparantly grizzly so yes the salesman is wrong again.

[Dan Mitchell]

In my personal experience (YMMV) the information gotten from Woodcraft/Rockler employees in general needs to be taken with a rather large bag of water softener salt. I often wonder if some of them were not at the Radio Shack or Safeway down the street before getting their present job.

Unfortunately.


Dan

[Karl Card]

I used to be in sales and sold office supply and computers. I never once made up a story for a customer. now I would tell a customer i dont know and if he would give me a piece of time i would find out... and I gained alot of respect by just being honest..

[John Shaffner]

Years ago, I worked for Woodworkers Warehouse, first in sales, then in management. While I was in sales, I pulled and read every manual for every machine we had on display and some we didn't. I read everything I could get my hands on to gain knowledge to pass on to my customers. This paid off in several ways. First, my customers were allowed to make an informed decision on their purchase. They learned about what tool could do the job best for them, not just be sold the most expensive one that may or may not do the job.After a while, repeat customers would seek me out to help them spend their money at my store. If I was off that day, they'd actually come back the next day when I was there. And, there was a short time the sales reps offered spiffs (cash incentives) for selling their products and I wouldn't sell what I didn't believe was what the customer needed. I did, however, get some rather hefty spiff checks on a regular basis. Management saw what I was doing and how I was handling the customers and offered me a managers position. I took it, of course, and my store was often the top selling store in our area. Bottom line is that being an informed sales person benefits everyone. It's a definate win-win situation. I wish the big box stores would adopt that ideal.

John

[glenn bradley]

Hey, Karl, ask him where you're suppose to use TUNG oil! :eek:

Boo-whaaa-ha-ha-ha-ha . . . whew . . . that one got me :D

[Jamie Cowan]

I mentioned this in the last thread, but it bears repeating--my local Woodcraft is excellent. Staff is very well informed from the top down, and they aren't afraid to ask each other questions. They all seem to work very well together to get the job done. I have never felt like I was being hosed. Also, I never feel stupid for asking questions. I feel bad that some franchises are probably hurting the reputation of the brand overall. Just to clarify, I have no personal stake in Woodcraft, although they do seem to have most of my money.

[Brian Gumpper]

Unless Grizzley's website is not up-to-date, or I'm looking in the wrong place, it still looks like Byrds are the only ones with cutters at an angle:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/category.aspx?key=240460

So is he still technically wrong because Powermatics have them too, or is Jet = PM because they are both owned by WMH? I'll give him half credit ;).

Mike

If you want to get technical, Byrd and JET are the only heads with angled cutters. The Powermatics use the actual Byrd head, JET uses a chinese copy they had made wth Byrd's blessing because of cost reasons.

[Van Huskey]

I would have ask if they are so good why does Powermatic (Jet's big brother) not use those heads... it does.

[Chris Kennedy]

I have had mixed experiences with Woodcraft. I have been to three -- one in PA, one in VA, and one in TN. My "local" one is in Virginia, and they are okay. Some of them seem pretty knowledgeable, but honestly, sometimes getting help in there is impossible if they don't recognize you. It can come across as a bit of an old boys club.


Cheers,

Chris

[Gene Howe]

Hey, Karl, ask him where you're suppose to use TUNG oil! :eek:

Or where it comes from.
I mean, if vegetable oil is from veggies and Castor oil is from a bean, from whence does baby oil emanate?;)

Re: Woodcraft stores. They are hit and miss. I went to one in the PHX area and they old fella in there couldn't find me a rip blade. Kept telling me that there was no difference between a rip blade and a combo. BTW, They didn't have a rip blade in stock!!
Sent the wife to one in Dallas area to pick up an advertised special. She took the flyer, too. They didn't have it in the store but took her money and mailed it to me a week later. Thought that was nice.

[michael case]

Eric good one - oak oil, I like that. So too Bob, this guy has an oily tongue in the first place. I can't bash the stores though. My guess is that it depends on the available pool of knowledgeable help. But in one case I can bash the manager - The store Chris mentions, where there is an old boys club and help is unavailable. That's unacceptable and comes from the manager down. Believe me, no culture of this sort could persist in a store as small as Woodcraft unless the manager was either asleep or part of the problem. A well crafted letter to the district manager and above might be of help here.

[Tony Bilello]

And Today's winner is.......................


Hey, Karl, ask him where you're suppose to use TUNG oil! :eek:

[Bob Glenn]

And Today's winner is.......................

Hey, thanks Tony, what do I win?

[David G Baker]

Bob G,
I was thinking that a 55 gallon drum of baby oil should work well as a prize. :D

[Brian Kincaid]

I always throw up a couple of softball questions that I already know the answer to. If they hit them out of the park then I move on to questions I do not know the answer to.

-Brian

[Horton Brasses]

In my personal experience (YMMV) the information gotten from Woodcraft/Rockler employees in general needs to be taken with a rather large bag of water softener salt. I often wonder if some of them were not at the Radio Shack or Safeway down the street before getting their present job.

Unfortunately.


Dan

To be fair to Woodcraft and all the rest: The pay rate and qualifications for the sales staff at any of these stores is about the same as Radio Shack or any other retailer. They should know their products but our expectations may be a little unrealistic. I wouldn't expect a Radio Shack salesperson to know the details on every competing item available. I get frustrated when I know more about a given product than the salesperson-particularly when I want to know more-but that's the way it goes. I expect my staff to know everything they can about our products-and they do-sometimes more than I do. I do not expect them to know everything possible about our competitor's products. I do encourage them to learn about our competitors offerings as a service tool, not so much a selling tool.

-Orion

[Richard Dragin]

I store owner would be better off hiring really good salesmen and teaching them about woodworking than hiring wood workers and teaching them to sell. I'm sure that statement will rub most members the wrong way and seems counter-intuitive but from a business view that is the smart thing to do. I'm not saying the guy in the OP is a good salesman, in fact I'd say the opposite.

People who frequent the forums probably have more knowledge about woodworking equipment and what's "out there" than an employee who is trying to stay on top of what's just in the store. The members here on average probably make way more than the employees at Woodcraft so don't expect them to own as much as you or to spend their time off doing what they do at work.

They should know the inventory, be professional and aid the customers without making stuff up. Don't expect them to know everything you know. Salesman are there to sell, not educate. Teaching someone everything about a product isn't the same as selling the product and probably will kill your sale.

[Paul Johnstone]

I don't think a Woodcraft sales associate should tell a potential customer abou Grizzly. It's his job to try to sell the customer a machine from his store.

In the end, it's the consumer's job to research a purchase.

The salesman may have never even heard of Grizzly. I think it's kind of harsh to make fun of him. He's probably trying his best to make ends meet.

[Adam Shapiro]

In the interest of balanced anecdotal experience, my experience with Woodcraft has been really positive. Of course, I've only even been to one store (DE), but for the most part the staff there has been really knowledgeable and helpful. They don't have answers to everything (finishing questions seem to bring about the most shrugs, which I prefer to making stuff up like in the OP) but they sure seem willing to take their time explaining the differences and usefulness of the various toys (I mean tools) they sell. Even though the prices are sometimes a little better online, I still prefer to drive the 40 minutes down there just to have someone to bounce an idea off when I'm picking something up. Plus, there is the whole support your local business thing.

The only real knock I have against them is that if you want something from the sale flyer, you've gotta get there early in the month. Otherwise, they seem to run out of stock quickly, which means another trip for the raincheck pickup. Then my disease kicks in, the one where I can't walk into the store without finding something else I need to buy, since I already drove all the way there...

[Ellen Benkin]

unfortunately the quality of the "help" in stores varies by store. My local Woodcraft does excellent training, apparently yours doesn't. I would suggest talking to the owner of the store about this guy.

[Karl Card]

dont get me wrong folks i am not anti woodcraft. I do understand it s a give and take but I guess the problem is that I have been out of work for a year + and frankily I would love to work there. If I cant get a job there but people that talk crap like this guy can it does really make me wonder. The woodcraft here does have some people that will say I dont know, or they will look it up, or they will know the answer, it is just this one guy who is really out in left field.

As far as researching an item, well yes I think a consumer should but I have to say that sometimes a review on the net can be so in depth that the consumer has no idea what they just read. For example I used to be into ham/cb radios and technically one was better than the other but was that tecnicallity going to make you sound better over the air, alot of times no.. and then sometimes you have to miss a sale in order to get more sales. What I mean by that is when you are qualifying a customer it is better to guide him to the right tool whether it is yours or not so that they have trust in you and come back for the proper items you do sell.

[Mike Henderson]

Woodcraft is a franchise so the quality of the stores varies a lot. The people who work in the Woodcraft I go to seem to know their stuff.

Mike

[Mort Stevens]

my local Woodcraft is excellent. Staff is very well informed from the top down, and they aren't afraid to ask each other questions. They all seem to work very well together to get the job done.

Like so many things in life the level of service you get depends on who waits on you... it's the human factor; maybe they're in a good mood, maybe not and that carries though onto how you get treated -- it would be nice to have robots that all gave the same level of service to everybody, regardless of their 'mood' -- but, it seems to me that one persons experience where the staff goes the extra mile is offset for the 100's that barely get a thank you from the cashier.

[Paul Johnstone]

What I mean by that is when you are qualifying a customer it is better to guide him to the right tool whether it is yours or not so that they have trust in you and come back for the proper items you do sell.


No offense, but if he were to hypothetically point the guy to another store, that customer might never come back if the alternate store made him happy.

There's a store I go to, I'm willing to pay extra to support them. The last few times, they stopped offering to special order something for me (I'm willing to pay them a premium to thank them for the advice that comes along with ordering from them).. The last few times, the guy has just told me to order it off the internet. Now, I'm kind of hestitant to drive out to that store, unless I know it's an item they stock.

[Ron Carlton]

Woodcraft is a franchise so the quality of the stores varies a lot. The people who work in the Woodcraft I go to seem to know their stuff.

Mike

As do those who work in the Addison, TX store. Guess I'm lucky.

[Rick Gooden]

I frequent the store in question (Evansville) regularly and am on a first name basis with most of the employees, whom I find to be quite competent. It is interesting that just the day before the OP I had a discussion with one of the fellows about the Byrd head being only available on the Powermatic, and a derivitive on the Jet. I was informed that the Grizzly was very good and used a different angle cut than the Byrd, but that to his knowledge the others used straight cutters so it seems the information was good and not made up. As to the walnut and teak oil, who knows. I did talk to one of the salesman about it yesterday and was told technically teak oil should only be used on teak but walnut oil was a go for anything. On finishing I do a lot of research, but have never had the occasion to use either of these so I don't know how accurate that information is.

[Don Inghram]

I called my local WC to ask for a sheet of Phenolic ply. The dude on the other end said, "Sorry, we're all out" so...... I drive down to the local store and show him what Phenolic Ply actually is and where their stores supply actually is. He kind of gave me a quizzical look and walked off in the other direction. Your mileage may vary. LOL :)

[Karl Card]

No offense, but if he were to hypothetically point the guy to another store, that customer might never come back if the alternate store made him happy.

There's a store I go to, I'm willing to pay extra to support them. The last few times, they stopped offering to special order something for me (I'm willing to pay them a premium to thank them for the advice that comes along with ordering from them).. The last few times, the guy has just told me to order it off the internet. Now, I'm kind of hestitant to drive out to that store, unless I know it's an item they stock.


No offense taken. It just depends on the customer. I have done it before and it worked out well. The customer did come back to thank me for being honest but yeah i can see your point also.

[Brian Darold]

Because woodcraft is a franchise I think the quality of service will depend on the store and who's working. I've been to 3 of the stores in FL and each one was a very pleasant experience.

On a visit to one of the stores, the guy helping me couldn't answer one of my questions. Instead of giving me a shrug and walking off, he called one of the other associates who was off, or otherwise out of the store that day, and got an answer for me. I thought that was pretty cool.

[Brian Gumpper]

It's his job to try to sell the customer a machine from his store.

And one that's in stock.

[Jerome Hanby]

I think the comments about all the Woodcrafts being different is spot on. The guys at the one that services Birmingham, AL are great. I don't know if they are the greatest woodworking authorities in the world, face it, how the heck would I know :eek:, but I always get great service, most of them know me by name (and believe me, I don't have a lot of money to spend in there, my biggest bill ever was about $400, most are less than $100), and I've been given advise from them that steered me away from items that they sell. Maybe it's inversely proportional to how much business the store does. If you have plenty of customers, then who cares. If customers are scarce, you need every one you can get.

[Karl Card]

I frequent the store in question (Evansville) regularly and am on a first name basis with most of the employees, whom I find to be quite competent. It is interesting that just the day before the OP I had a discussion with one of the fellows about the Byrd head being only available on the Powermatic, and a derivitive on the Jet. I was informed that the Grizzly was very good and used a different angle cut than the Byrd, but that to his knowledge the others used straight cutters so it seems the information was good and not made up. As to the walnut and teak oil, who knows. I did talk to one of the salesman about it yesterday and was told technically teak oil should only be used on teak but walnut oil was a go for anything. On finishing I do a lot of research, but have never had the occasion to use either of these so I don't know how accurate that information is.


Rick, I agree with you that I think most everyone there is competent. There is just this one person there that has issues with personality, knowledge and in the past I have had to talk to the manager because of how he acted in front of my wife. Things calmed down for a little but then this last incident happened so I just decided instead of getting angry I would just have fun with it. As one of the other forum members here stated that he ask a few questions that he knows for sure then decides from there if the guy is knowledgeable. The asst mgr (dont want to use real names) has alwasy been very nice to me and he doesnt seem to mind helping you out and if he doesnt know he has alwasy been upfront with me and said so. The older guys in the store are very personable and pretty much the same way.. anyway time for some good talks about wood and I kinda feel this thread has outlived its life..lol

[Kevin Womer]

I have had mostly positive experiences with the Woodcraft in Columbus, Ohio-most of the people know their stuff. I did have one interesting experience this past summer when I was calling to purchase a cabinet saw. I called and was quoted a price on the saw, then got around to delivery and was quoted a price. A few days later, I called back to tell them I wanted to buy it and talked to a different person, who quoted a higher delivery price. I ended up going with a different store (not Woodcraft) based on a gut feeling from the second phone call. I'm happy, but they lost my business on that sale, I guess I could have talked to the manager about it but did not. Can't say I trust everything that comes out of an associate’s mouth in that store anymore.

[Ed Taylor Greensboro NC]

Hey, Karl, ask him where you're suppose to use TUNG oil! :eek:
I put some on my tung and it tasted awful!!! :-)

[Joseph Crivelli]

All,

I would take a Woodcraft or Rockler near me regardless of the staffs knowledge.
On Long Island, we only have the big box stores.

Thank God for the Internet!


Joe

[shaun gardner]

I would like to chime in for my local woodcraft store. They are wonderful their! If one employee doesnt know the answer they go find one that does. Always friendly and like to talk. As a plus the owners are always their and even though they are not a great knowledge base they do whats right for the customers on the bussiness end. I go out of my way to visit their store even if it means a few more pennies out of m pocket. (please not pennies in wood working translates to $100 a penny. Just sounds cheaper the other way)

[David Christopher]

My woodcraft store closed down and the next closest is 6 hours away:confused:

alot of great stores in Atlanta but thats 300 miles away

[Jon Lanier]

Okay then.... where do they get Baby Oil? :eek: