Powermatic PWBS-14CS - is it me or the saw?

[Matt Winterowd]

I'm not sure if I've got unreasonable expectations, poor technique, or just upgrade-itis, (or probably all three) but I've had this bandsaw for over a year now, and I can't shake my sense of mild dissatisfaction with it. There aren't any really glaring design issues with it, but there are a number of minor things that bug me.

I don't particularly like the guides. They have a lot of slop, so that I adjust them, and then locking them down ends up pushing the thrust bearing forward or twisting the side bearings into the blade. Also, the guidepost itself twists and doesn't run perfectly parallel to the blade up and down.

It also seems like I get a lot of vibration transmitted through the blade. The drive train and wheels seem to run quite smoothly, but regardless of tension I seem to get some flutter in the blade that gives me poor cut quality, especially resawing. I've done all of the usually tuning-up and tried diffeerent blades, etc., but it just seems like I'm not quite getting the results I've seen other people achieve.

Other minor quibbles: the tension and tracking knobs are too small and stiff, I ended up taking off the fence and the extra fixed table piece since they seemed to be in the way more than they helped, and as others have mentioned, the motor mount is ridiculous.

I do like the quick tension release. :)

Seriously though, it gets the job done most of the time. Are my expectations too high? Do other people really like this machine.? Most magazine and web reviews of this saw are pretty favorable. For around $1000, I kind of feel like I didn't get a great tool. Or did I screw up and waste money on a mediocre machine?

[Eric DeSilva]

Interesting. Last night I posted this query:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=131771

The short version of that post is I can't get decent resaw results with the PM with anything over 3" tall. I'm in exactly the same boat. Wondering if its my technique or its unrealistic to expect the 14" BS to resaw 6" bloodwood. I'm using a 3/4" carbide tipped Laguna blade. The bloody thing ought to cut straight.

[Jeff Willard]

I used that style of saw for about 12 years before upgrading this past summer. I had much the same feeling as you. That a bandsaw was capable of more than I was getting out of it. I never knew what I was missing until I did this:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=115939

For about half as much again, I feel like I have twice the bandsaw. Wait while I put on my asbestos shorts :D. I think that the Delta and it's clones leave a lot to be desired. Sure, they are versatile with the ability to add in the riser block, but I think that is where the biggest weakness in the design lies. I could resaw with mine, but never expected to be able to do so with much accuracy. I never would have attempted to saw veneer at 1/16" on a 6" board, much less a 10" board

[Eric DeSilva]

For some reason, I always felt like if I upgraded, I'd probably spring for an MM16, but the 14SUV looks interesting. Seems odd that their 14" BS has more resaw capacity than their base 16" model, outweighs it, has more versatility in blade width, and is $500 cheaper. What am I missing? Why do people buy the LT16?

[Joseph Tarantino]

+1 on dissatisfaction with a walter meier group tool (powermatic, jet, performax and wilton). my 18' jet BS proved a challenge to get right. if it hadn't been a $40 craigs list purchase, i'd have been really upset. the walter meier group tools are ok, but there is nothing special about them. i've finally gotten mine performing fairly well but i expected more from a tool that supposedly retailed for around $1200. buying another tool from any of the above brands would have to be thought about long and hard.

[Jeff Willard]

Eric,
I think most of the discrepancy can be attributed to the country of origin. The 3000 series saws are of Chinese manufacture. The SUV is part of the 3000 series. The next series, I believe is manufactured in Bulgaria, and the flagship line,HD, is Italian.

If money and space weren't part of the equation, I'd probably have a MiniMax. (Actually, if they were no object, I'd track down a 36" Tannewicz.:eek:) I'm not tied to Laguna, but after having these guides on a saw, I'm sold on 'em.

[michael case]

Two years ago a sales person steered me away from the Delta 14" to the Powermatic 14". I can't help but feel some gratitude for having dodged the Delta bullet. My initial experience with this saw was clouded by Mark Duginske's book, The Band Saw. I struggled long and hard make the wheels co-planar as Duginske insisted they should be. After about 20 hours of grinding spacers etc. I ended up with a saw that could not resaw to save its life. Finally, I knocked it all apart and set it back to the manufacturers original set up and concentrated on the basics of tuning. Indeed, I found the tiny thumb screws on the Carter bearing set to be ridiculously small, but at least it has double roller bearings and has the thrust bearing set the right way. I got a feel for the set up and my post remains true so I guess I got lucky with this one. I got fair results using Olson blades. With the Olson I could just about resaw 8" of cherry. I then switched to a Timberwolf 3/4" and never looked backed. It marches right through 8" of cherry or white oak now and I've actually gotten to like this machine much more. But truly I doubt your going to do any 12" resawing with this machine. However, although I now have a saw that is about the best of the old cast iron 14s, if I had to do it all over again I would definitely opt for a bigger better resaw machine.

[glenn bradley]

Ouch. At that price point I would be expecting some pretty outstanding performance. Sounds like you are not alone in your dissatisfaction with that particular model and I believe that was your question. Every maker seems to have 1 or 2 machines that just don't work out right. Fortunately, most makers have 1 or 2 machines that they do really well. This is why my shop is gray, green, yellow, red and so forth.

If the guides won't track correctly when the post is raised and lowered, that is a defect. I would take that up with PM up before the warranty runs out if you can. Small knob size is an irritation and I have swapped knobs/screws on machines to make things more usable from time to time.

I have read an article where a guy tweaked a Ridgid 14" and a Laguna 14". When he was done you couldn't tell the cuts apart. There was a lot more tweaking on the Ridgid of course. It may come down to how much tweaking should be done to a thousand dollar saw vs. getting another machine.

Just an observation; when I got my larger saw I immediately sold my smaller machine. I missed it right away and bought another used smaller machine for quick cuts and smaller curvy work. Much happy now, learn from my mistake.

[Matt Winterowd]

Thanks guys. I feel better in so far as it doesn't sound like it's just my skewed expectations. I don't feel much better about sinking that much money into the saw in the first place. I do think that if I mostly just used it for curvy cuts, I would be ok with it, but then I could say the same for a much cheaper saw, like the Grizzly G0555.

To Glenn's observation about brands, I am finding that to be true. I have a PM2000 table saw, and I absolutely love it, but I definitely don't feel like there are any brands out there that you can just depend on producing a great product up and down their line anymore.

Jeff, I'm definitely looking hard at the Italian saws now. I think if I'm going to upgrade, I'll definitely go to a 16-18 inch model. I don't really want or need to go any bigger than that. I have to admit that, like Erik, I'm a bit perplexed by the Laguna 14-16 inch lineup. I don't like the fact that they're creating all of these slightly different models with different origins and overlapping prices and specs. I'm also intrigued by the new Grizzly G0636X. It sounds like it might fill the gap very nicely between the "very good" steel frame saws (Grizzly G0513-514, Laguna 3000 series, etc.) and the "outstanding" Italian models with the $3k prices.

Glenn, I wish I had room for two saws!

[Van Huskey]

My guess is most if not all cast and most steel 14" BS can NOT properly tension a 3/4" or larger blade. The least expensive 14" BS I would own is the before mentioned Laguna SUV.

[Ed Griner]

I'm starting to think asian manufactures are incapable of delivering a quality product.This was true twenty years ago and I'm beginning to think nothing has changed.Good out of the box quality appears to be a thing of the past,with the exception of some european machinery.I hope that I'm wrong.

Ed

[Stephen Edwards]

I'm starting to think asian manufactures are incapable of delivering a quality product.This was true twenty years ago and I'm beginning to think nothing has changed.Good out of the box quality appears to be a thing of the past,with the exception of some european machinery.I hope that I'm wrong.

Ed

With all due respect, I think that you are wrong. After learning how to properly tune my G0555X and changing from a 3/4" blade to a 1/2" blade I can consistently resaw 1/16" veneers from 8-10" stock with no problems whatsoever. On a few occasions I've resawn 12". I realize that it's not as fast as other, more expensive saws. But, I didn't expect it to be. It is accurate and I'm not constantly tweaking it to make it work properly.

In my experience and in my opinion, the Taiwanese machines that I've used are of better quality than the Chinese machines that I've used. I think that's because Taiwan is several years ahead of China in the manufacturing processes. However, China will continue to improve in quality.

To the OP, I don't think that your expectations are unrealistic nor unreasonable.

[Cary Falk]

I'm starting to think asian manufactures are incapable of delivering a quality product.This was true twenty years ago and I'm beginning to think nothing has changed.Good out of the box quality appears to be a thing of the past,with the exception of some european machinery.I hope that I'm wrong.

Ed
I disagree also. My Grizzly G0513X2 was perfect out of the crate. That is more than I can say for some of my Delta and Jet tools.The problem is not the country of origin but companies that used to be the gold standard resting on their old reputation and charging a high preminum for their name. I always believed PM was overpriced for what you get. I have seen quite a few complaints about PM lately that confirms that. There is no way I would pay $1k for a CI 14" bandsaw. If I did it had better be prefect. My 14" Delta performed better(although marginal) than your PM at half the cost.

[Matt Winterowd]

My guess is most if not all cast and most steel 14" BS can NOT properly tension a 3/4" or larger blade. The least expensive 14" BS I would own is the before mentioned Laguna SUV.

Personally, I never even contemplated putting a 3/4" blade on it. I've always understood that the CI 14" saws couldn't handle that.

I really don't want this to turn into another thread about country of origin. I really just wanted to find out how people felt about this saw in particular, and what level of performance one should expect from this class of machines.

I think that I understood the justification for much of the PWBS-14CS's price wasn't that it was vastly superior to the other CI 14" saws, but that it was a solid saw that came loaded with a bunch of solid accessories that you usually had to buy separately for other saws. But since those accessories have proved to be part of what annoys me about the saw, I really wish I hadn't paid extra for them. Oh well, it's probably still not the most costly lesson I've ever learned in life.