wooden planes

[Donna Reece]

Sorry I double posted this thread!

[Donna Reece]

I've found that I like the feel of using wooden planes and have started to add a few to my collection. My most recent acquisition is a coffin smoother. The sole is fairly flat and the mouth is tight, but I'm having problems with shaving clogging the mouth after a few swipes across the wood. Any suggestions? Also just how flat does the sole need to be on this type plane?
Thanks

[Sam Takeuchi]

Does your blade have cap iron? If it does, you might want to check how cap iron fit on the blade. If there is a gap or gaps along the cap iron and blade mating surface, wood shavings get rammed into it and get lodged to cause more jamming. In that case, flatten the back of the blade and dress the leading edge of cap iron so that there is no gap.

Also inspect the mouth area to see if there is any gap or rough area that might cause clogging. If you can take pictures and post them here it'd be better.

How flat? Flat. Just lap it on abrasive paper on glass/granite to flatten the sole. Or if you are old fashioned like me, take a couple light swipes with another plane with blade slightly retracted. Basically it doesn't have to be flat like precision machine, but flat enough that you can put a straight edge or something and it doesn't show any excessive wear, hump or extreme unevenness. Either way, it doesn't hurt to give a few lap on abrasive paper. It'll show the amount of unevenness. If it's not excessive, don't worry about it. The most important thing is that toe, front of mouth/back of mouth and heel are in level (or co-planner or whatever you want to call it). In between area can be concave and it doesn't negatively affect in use.

[David Gendron]

As for the sole flatness, as flat as possible and espacialy in front of the mouth!

[Jim Koepke]

Donna,

Welcome to the Creek.

Pictures would be helpful.

Also, knowing if you are taking very thin shavings or if they are thick shavings. I find that a consistent thin shaving is helpful to find the choke points or where the shavings tend to catch.

Knowing more about the plane is also helpful. As Sam wondered in the duplicate of this thread, does this have a cap iron?

Also have you looked in the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs thread? There are a few threads on plane fettling. Bob Smalser does more with wood planes than I do.

One thing in my thread is some information on how a blade and cap iron. The cap iron needs to mate to the blade all the way across to prevent chips from getting caught between the blade and cap iron. The area of mating should be smooth and not have any way for a splinter to take hold.

Next would be the mouth. The amount of open area and the shape to the front of the mouth can do a lot to help chips clear or to make them clog.

Hope this helps some. More questions and some pictures if you can are always welcome.

jim

[Jim Koepke]

This is a little more to add to Sam's post.

The smoothness of the blade provides a lot toward the success in making effortless shavings. A rough blade will make ribbons or shreds of wood. As the wood traverses the blade's edge, they will make more noise on a rough edge than on a smooth edge. This noise may be inaudible, but it will still be vibration, the beginning of chatter. Pits, ridges and other imperfections on the blade will cause crevices, nooks and crannies where the cap iron or wedge meets the blade. This may be good on an English muffin, but not a smoothing plane, English or otherwise.

jim

[Robert Rozaieski]

Donna,

Jim & Sam have already mentioned the fit of the cap iron to the cutting iron so I won't go into that except to say make sure the fit is tight. The next thing I'd do is polish the "curve" of the cap iron so there are no rough spots. These old planes can be a little rusty on the cap iron, which can cause shavings to stick, then clog. So make sure the cap iron is clean and smooth.

Next, check the tightness of the mouth. Pretty much all of these old wooden planes have shrunken over the years. This can cause the throat to be a little tighter than it initially was. If there's not enough room for a shaving to pass, that will clog it up. Also check the front of the throat that there are no rough spots, chips or cracks. These will catch shavings as well. If the throat is just too tight, move the cap iron back. I find that in these old wooden planes, if the iron is bedded well, the cap iron serves little purpose except to keep the wedge at the proper angle so I pull the cap iron way back from the edge. I'll move it back 1/4" to 1/2" if the throat is continuously jamming.

Finally, sight through the mouth of the plane and look at the tips of the wedge. Often what happens in these old planes is that the wedge shrinks narrower than the throat or that the wedge mortise has been made wider by a previous owner because the body shrunk and the iron would no longer fit right. What this does is create gaps between the sides of the wedge and the sides of the wedge mortise. If there are gaps between the sides of the wedge and the sides of the wedge mortise, you are gauranteed to get shavings jammed in there, especially when you skew the plane. The easiest solution I know of to fix this problem is to make a new wedge. It's not hard to do and can make a huge difference in preventing the plane from clogging. I recently wrote a blog entry about making a new wedge for my fore plane because I got tired of the constant clogging (http://logancabinetshoppe.weebly.com/1/post/2009/11/new-wedge-for-a-wooden-plane.html). You might find it helpful if you find the wedge to be the problem.

Regarding flatness, I like smoothers to be pretty flat. If there is any concavity to the sole at all, it becomes hard to take the thin shaving that you want from a smoother. If you have a flat surface, just put some 220 grit down and draw some lines across the bottom of the plane with a pencil. Make a few passes on the sandpaper and see where the pencil lines are removed to see how flat the sole is. Go slow and don't go any lower than 220 grit. Wooden planes will lap MUCH faster than metal so it is very easy to go too far.

I do not flatten jack/fore planes. I want them to take a thick shaving (up to 1/16" or more thick) and therefore sole flatness is not an issue with them. Jointers and try planes are somewhere in between. If they need flattening because they don't work well (never flatten until you try the plane first) I get them as flat as I easily can, but I don't obsess over it. I can usually flatten wooden jointers/try planes easily to an acceptable degree of flatness simply by planing them with another plane. You can also lap them if you have a long enough flat reverence surface, but again, go slow and nothing lower than 220 grit. You'll find that it is very easy to flatten wooden planes.

Good luck!

[Bob Smalser]

The sole is fairly flat and the mouth is tight....

....I'm having problems with shaving clogging the mouth after a few swipes across the wood.



The width of the mouth has to match the thickness of the shaving you are attempting. Just like a wide mouth won't produce a thin shaving, a narrow mouth in an old plane often won't produce a thick shaving without clogging.

Are you getting thick shavings?
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4029780/49877179.jpg

Or thin shavings?
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4029780/382217309.jpg

And "narrow" mouths can hide other throat geometry problems.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4029780/382216250.jpg

Note the pencil line on the edge of the replacement sole above. With use, woodies wear down significantly in the front of the sole....

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4029780/49867418.jpg

....and when they do, the mouth can actually tighten to the point where it clogs. Note the throat front has two faces, each cut at a different angle. The lower face looks vertical, but in many woodies isn't. It's often angled downward toward the front of the sole...

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4029780/49867426.jpg

...and the ridge formed where the two angles meet needs to be the original distance from the sole for the plane to work as it did when new.

Last, the sole has to be dead flat in all the right places for the plane to work well. Check it on sandpaper laid on a flat surface like a piece of glass.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/263582393.jpg

It is a rare vintage woodie that wouldn't benefit from a new sole, which is a quick and easy job if you have access to a power jointer...and often less trouble than diagnosing faults by trial and error:

Rehabbing Woodies
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=8351

[Donna Reece]

Wow! Thanks everyone for the great response. I took your suggestions to heart starting with the sole. As it turned out it was dished a little directly in front of the mouth and was low at the toe and heel. I lapped it on some 220 grit paper on my granite surface plate. It took a little time but now it seems to be working great and it takes nice fluffy shavings. The only issue I have now is that the shavings aren't full width. I'll try to work with it some tomorrow to see if I can get it tuned properly.
Thanks again! I appreciate your help!
Donna

[Bob Smalser]

The only issue I have now is that the shavings aren't full width.


Flatten the back of your iron after bluing it with cold blue from a sporting goods store, and abrasive paper on your indexing plate. Nothing else is as precise.

See the high spots that still have bluing on them? These irons won't take full-width shavings yet, either.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/263581558.jpg

But this one's getting close, and can be made perfect with a little bit of back bevel.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/263583119.jpg

Block Plane Selection and Rehabilitation
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=60970&highlight=block+plane+selection+rehab

[Donna Reece]

The first thing I did when I got the plane was to flatten the back and hone the resharpen the iron. I can easily shave the hair off my arms with it as it is now.
Please explain the back bevel. How is it done and what is its value?
Thanks

[Bob Smalser]

Please explain the back bevel. How is it done and what is its value?


When you reach the point in flattening where the edge isn't quite perfect, like the high spots at each corner and in the center of the one below....

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/263583119.jpg

...then remove those small high spots by honing a slight bevel into the back of the iron....

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/263583117.jpg

The iron will have two bevels, but the resulting edge will be dead straight, allowing the user to take a uniformly thin shaving.

The finished iron:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/263582492.jpg

You only get this precise using a thin indexing dye that will withstand the lubricant you are using. Cold Blue from a sporting goods store is one of the easiest to find and use, and one of the best.

The caveat is your stones also have to be dead flat. Sanding them with 60-grit paper on an indexing surface like a ground machine table or glass/granite plate accomplishes that:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/17020258/263581563.jpg