New (to me) plane. Maybe a gloat?

[Nick Laeder]

I was waiting for a guy for a meeting yesterday, and the location of the meeting was a block away from a bunch of antique shops. I went in a few to kill time, and this #5 was on a window sill. I picked it up and asked the guy what he wanted, and he replied, "Does $20 sound fair?"

I told him that with all the rust, I could only go $10 and he accepted.

According hyperkitten.com, this plane is a Type 8-9.

The rust isn't too bad, IMHO. It'll take some work to make it good, but I"m broke.

Are the irons from these old planes made from decent steel? I flattened and sharpened the iron from a Made In England #4 I bought at a garage sale only to have it dull almost immediately on some Walnut I'm working on. I'm planning on buying a Hock for the #4, but should I buy it for this #5 instead?

Nick

[Bruce Haugen]

You do not have a dog meat #5. It just needs a little cleaning. The knob and tote appear to be intact and not repaired. In addition, that's the low knob model, which is my preference anyway. If the blade hasn't been messed with and if it's original, then I'd bet it's fairly decent steel. Sharpen it and take it for a spin, and I'll bet it holds an edge better than the #4. Were I in your shoes, I'd get the Hock blade for the #4.

You did good - that's gloat-worthy.

[Jon Toebbe]

Yeah, that rates an official YOU SUCK! :D Take it completely apart and give it a nice, long soak in some citric acid (homebrew beer/wine shops are a good source). It's cheap, effective, and very mild on the cast iron. Just make sure you dry it thoroughly and oil it right away after scrubbing the rust off.

As for the replacement irons: old Stanley irons are pretty good, but thin. I brought a #6 back to life recently, and have been very pleased with the Lee Valley replacement iron I got for it -- flat back, thick steel, durable edge. What's not to like? Oh, and did I mention I picked up the #6 for $23? :D STEALTH GLOAT!

[Prashun Patel]

Citric acid and a fine wire wheel for your drill press. The cup does a great job at polishing the non-jap'd parts.

Have fun. Rehabbing planes doesn't cost much. You learn so much, too doing it!

[James Taglienti]

That is a beautiful plane! I always thought the #5 was proportionally the most attractive... just the furniture is worth 20 bucks on that bad boy, i would say you've got a good deal.

[Sam Takeuchi]

Old Stanley laminated blades are do-able, but nothing special about it. It's pretty decently usable on softwood, but they don't last much on hard or abrasive wood. But for the most part, if you don't use it on hardwood, it'll serve well. BUT these blades are pretty inconsistent in terms of hardness and durability. Some blades do hold up pretty well, while another blade that came from the same type of plane might not do as good. I'd say you should sharpen it and see how that particular one hold up.

If you don't have much money but want a decently usable blade, scout eBay for pre-mid 1950s Record 2" blade. Record blades were thicker than Stanley, about the same thickness as modern replacement blades made by Hock. It's laminated but most importantly, it sharpens very well and holds edge pretty well. You should be able to fetch one for less than 10 bucks. It has same shape as old Stanley blade, but after mid 1950s, it got slightly rounder. I don't know how those ones are, but earlier ones are good.

[David Gendron]

For $10 it is a good deal! I'll double that and pay shipping so you can buy a better one;)

[Mike Henderson]

Rather than a fine wire wheel, look for a deburring wheel. You can find them on eBay for decent prices. Get one at least an inch wide - the half inch ones are too narrow.

They do a great job of cleaning mild rust off of tools.

Mike

[jerry nazard]

Nick,

Mike had a good suggestion about the deburring wheel. Another product, an abrasive nylon brush made by Nyalox, also does a great job on planes. It is a very gentle brush compared to a wire wheel, and costs about the same amount. They are available in several grits, and I get them at my local hardware store.

Nice score on the No. 5!

[Jim Koepke]

Nick,

Welcome to the Creek.

+1 on the YOU SUCK:D

I was going to buy that plane, honest, so send it to me... yeah right.

Great find, if I see a plane at that price with good wood, it will be snatched up if I have the funds.

As James said. If you just sold the wood off that plane you would make a profit. The tote looks like it is older than a type 9. A type 9 will have patent dates, a type 8 will not. Type 6 will have a right hand thread on the adjuster. In other words, turn the adjuster left for the blade to advance and right to retract. The late type 6 and later are the opposite of this. Type 7 will have an S cast into the parts. A type 8 will have a B cast into many of the parts. Then there is an odd ball late type 6 that just has a pimple on some of the parts. There are also parts from this era that have no marks and mixed marks.

More pictures as you go...

jim

[Josh Bowman]

Are the irons from these old planes made from decent steel? I flattened and sharpened the iron from a Made In England #4 I bought at a garage sale only to have it dull almost immediately on some Walnut I'm working on. I'm planning on buying a Hock for the #4, but should I buy it for this #5 instead?
Nick
Nick I have too many planes to count, most were fairly rusty when I got them. I have later learned to us a razor blade and scrape the sides of the plane to get the rust off. It's fast and does a great job without rounding anything. I'm talking a utility knive blade. The plane blade which is great steel IMHO. They say the sweet hearts are better steel, but I've had good luck with all pre type 17's. Generally a 5 is for roughing and "most" don't consider an aftermarket blade since it is used for the nasty hard work. But, I have several Stanley 5's that have been tuned and will take a 1000th shavening very easy with the stock blade and they don't dull. Just up to you. I asked some of the experts a while back and it was suggested I 1st get an after market blade for a 4 then a 7 and not consider one for the 5. Now I have used a soft wire wheel on many planes and it does a good job, but if your a pureist, scraping is the way. I'm really not, but the look is a preference. You might try both and see what you like. Now back to the blade, I have not had any bad problems with old Stanley blades dulling, I've had a couple crack on me, but not dull. The backs can be hard to get flat, but the fine folks here talked me into the "ruler" trick and problems solved, but have had the same problems with aftermarket blades backs. The totes for purist is left alone, just cleaned up. I like to strip them and reshellac them. They can look amazing depending on your luck of the draw of rose wood. Use some soap and water on the whole thing and dry off well. I use to just put a little lite oil on all of the metal, but now use some fancy oil, but really a little J&J was will work fine also. If you sand the tote and if it's rose wood, only sand to 100 to 150 grit. For some reason the rose wood will get darker if it's sanded to much. Wax the wood and it's good to go and feels great. 10 bucks for a 5 is a great price, if it has no cracks etc. They are one of the most common planes though. Looking at your pictures, it doesn't look so bad. You can have it up and going in an hour (not counting if you finish the tote and knob). I alway wire wheel the nuts used to hold the handles on. I don't have the patience to brasso them. I have brassoed a few adjusting knobs, but use my lathe to spin it. I've done the same to sand and finish the knob. Be very careful though and I really warn you. IF you refinish that plane, you could find yourself buying more and more. They really look very nice with just a little TLC. Attached is an 1875 type 3 #4 Stanley. It's just a piece of junk, but looks fairly nice after a 1/2 hour of cleaning and a little scraping. You can also brasso the sides of the plane to get more gunk off to your liking. It's gentle. Good luck.

[James Taglienti]

very nice looking plane josh.

[Nick Laeder]

Thanks, all.

I didn't get going on it last night because I had to pick up a crib. Not an accomplished enough woodworker to make one for little Whatshisname yet. Maybe for the next one.

I'll get working on it this weekend. I have some walnut I need to plane down. Hopefully this blade will do it so I can keep going on my end table project.

I'll post better pictures later. One thing I forgot to mention is the bottom is corrugated. They look OK, but are holding some gunk. I'll try with a fine wire wheel or a Nyalox in the drill press. Citric acid as well. Don't know about the Brasso, that plane of Josh's looks great with the patina that's there. I'll shoot for this one looking that good.

The tote and knob are in great shape, no cracks or repairs. They appear to be rosewood, but what do I know?

When you say finish them with wax, do you mean just paste wax like SC Johnson's? I have a whole tub of that lying around.

[Prashun Patel]

I'm a refinishing noob, so take this all with a grain of salt (any conflicts w/ advice from jim & others conceded in advance):

When I get the hankering to refinish knobs and totes, I find the best way is to paint them with paint stripper and let them sit in an airtight bag overnight. Next morning, scrape off all the wet stuff. Then 'sand' it with a fine wire wheel on the drill press. You can use sandpaper by hand to smooth it after this.

To refinish, I usually just dunk it it BLO for a minute, let it dry, and finish with shellac. If it's rosewood, she'll darken up somthin' nice when that BLO hits er. If you don't want to risk the shellac cracking, you can wax it instead.

But FUNCTIONALLY, the biggest bangs for the buck for me are sharpening/replacing the blade, flattening the sole and frog, and cleaning the depth adjuster. After that, 2 quick improvements are beveling the mouth opening and the bottom of the cap.

I've also found that while u can go crazy on flattening the sole, it only needs a few points to be coplanar, rather than flat along it's entire length...

[Josh Bowman]

Nick
The corrogated is a good thing. It will flatten and cause less resistance when your pushing it. Careful if you use a wire wheel. You can loose some of the flatness of the sole. I'd wash it with simple green to get rid of the gunk and take a piece of fine sandpaper on my table saw top and rub the sole on that to get rid of tanish and rust. All in all though, the #5 is the D-9 bull dozer of planes and will do an exceptable job with just a sharp blade and some wax on the sole.
Good Luck

[David Tiell]

I think you got a real nice deal.

To answer another question you had, because I haven't seen anyone mention it yet, if you buy the Hock or LV blade for your #4, you can always switch it to the #5 if you want. They both use a 2" wide blade.

[Jim Koepke]

Everyone tends to find what works best for them.

I have used stripper in the past. It is one way to find old repairs to knobs and totes. The stripper can weaken the glue. One thing that got me away from stripper is a friend in the used furniture business who used to use a phrase, "as crazy as a stripper." Apparently, people who did this as a business didn't last very long. He always sent his pieces out to be stripped.

If you have good ventilation and air movement, you should be OK.

I also do not like to use wire wheels on wood as it can leave marks. One good reason to keep broken plane parts is to use them as holders for knobs and totes. This makes sanding and finishing easy. I tend to leave the wood bare and use J & J floor wax or other wood finishing oil as a finish. I can see why some like the wonderful shine that shellac or other finishes offer. Neither is really better, they are just different.

For knobs, I have made a mandrel that allows the knob to be mounted in my lathe. The same could be done for a drill press. Be careful if you do this. This allows me to sand and polish up a knob real nice.

When doing this kind of thing, it is always a good idea to wear breathing and eye protection.

jim

[Nick Laeder]

I'll take pictures tomorrow night, but I'm pretty much done derustifying this plane.

The bottom is in worse shape than I originally thought. I ended up scraping rust with an old junk block plane blade. The bottom has some pitting. Even though most say not to fettle the bottom of a jack, I'm going to, just so it's usable. I'm worried about it acting like a rasp if I don't.

Thanks for the advice. I ended up soaking it in citric acid overnight, and most of it cleaned right up. It's all oiled now. I sanded and waxed the tote and knob. Somehow (read "Due to my superior bench organization,") I misplaced the screw that secures the tote from spinning. I'm sure it'll turn up.