Possible used PM4224 purchase?

[Joe Mioux]

I have an opportunity to buy a used Powermatic 4224 lathe from a cabinet shop.

I haven't seen it. Will see this afternoon. It was described to me as 6-7 years old in excellent condition because no one around there was good enough to use it.

They bought because they had to make some spindles years ago and since it hasn't been used much.

They are asking $3000.

What are you thoughts. I really don't want that big of a lathe in my garage, but I am thinking at that price, I could learn to live with it. I am assuming $3K is a good used price for this lathe. Correct me if I am wrong.

any other thoughts?

joe

[Montgomery Scott]

I'd jump on that deal. A new one is $4800 at my local dealer. The footprint is not substantively different than any other full size lathe, though it would be a beast to move.

[Bill Bolen]

I believe these folks had that lathe on CL sometime last year. The "cabinet shop" stuck in my mind and triggered the menmory. New that lathe runs in the mid $5K range and is a whold lot of machine. If it is in as good a condition as they saythe $3K sounds like a good deal. Accessories /tool/chucks included? I'm kinda tight so anything under the $3K might be a really good deal, otherwise it would be a bit high for a 7 year old machine. Heck, make an offer...you never know..Bill..

[Steve Mawson]

As long as it is in decent shape I would not be afraid of it. True it has a large swing but foot print is probably no bigger than other lathes. Of course it will be heavy but should be manageable if taken apart. Looks like a good price to me. I recently bought a new 3520 and it was $2800.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Looking forward to see how you feel about the lathe after you see it this afternoon. $3K could be a really good price. Depends.

[Dave Ogren]

Joe,

When I was looking the used prices were much higher. If the machine is in good shape I would think that it would be a great deal. That being said I don't think that the headstock on that piece slides, I think that it is fixed.
The sliding headstock is really important to a lot of turners. Just something else to consider.
Good Luck and Happy Turning,

Dave

[Ted Calver]

Joe,
I have that same lathe and as long as you don't miss the moveable headstock the 3520 offers, it's a great lathe and all the lathe I'll ever need. I think I paid around $3400 for mine new just about that long ago, so they are getting close to what they paid for it. Granted it's a lot more now, but I'd be tempted to see if they would come down a bit just on general principles.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Best price I have seen on a new one is $5150. I would say that would be a good deal.

[Mike Peace]

I am not sure bigger is always better. I can't imagine needing more than 20" swing. I would hate to give up the moveable headstock on my 3520 which you could get new for about the same price. Not sure that a new 5 yr warranty is worth all that much since unlikely anything would go wrong. I suspect the tailstock is a little heavier to move around than the one on the 3520.

[Matt Hutchinson]

I would say jump at the chance! Of course, I would offer a lower amount. And if you get it and change your mind, I have a very good friend :rolleyes: who would love it in his shop.

Hutch

[Joe Mioux]

well, I got back a little while ago from looking at it.

that thing is pretty big and the tail stock is a lot heavier than a 3520. It has a Vega Duplicator on it and that is not part of the sale.

How important is a sliding head stock?

joe

[Matt Hutchinson]

I would say not at all in this case. It's headstock is designed to be able to turn outboard where the hand wheel is. However, the kicker is that you may have to buy reverse thread inserts.

Hutch

[Bob Bergstrom]

With a 24" swing the movable head stock is one of comfort in standing out front of the lathe. With a 24" swing and 3hp. there is little else needed. If you have the strength and desire to get 100 to 150 chucks of wood on your lathe, get the 4224. The price is good and it you will never need bigger.

[Joe Mioux]

I would say not at all in this case. It's headstock is designed to be able to turn outboard where the hand wheel is. However, the kicker is that you may have to buy reverse thread inserts.

Hutch

are those expensive?

[Joe Mioux]

oh yea, its a 2001 model... and some of the paint is chipped off the edge of the tool rest, maybe about 20 percent. :rolleyes:

[Wally Dickerman]

The price may be right but it's a lathe that was designed years ago. 24 inch swing? Would you really use that? There is no provision for an outboard bed, so outboard turning is out. Free standing tool rests are usable but are a pain-in-the-butt. I say that from personal experience.

One of the best things that has come along in recent years for the woodturner is the sliding headstock. At about the same price you could get a PM 3520 that IMO would be a more satisfactory lathe.

Wally

[Allen Neighbors]

After turning for 7 years on 4 different lathes, I agree with Wally. You'd probably only use the 24"swing a couple of times, and the 20" of the 3520 would do you as much or more good, brand new, and sliding headstock. JMO.

[Dick Sowa]

I agree with the rest...opt for a new 3520b, and never look back. A side note on this discussion about prices, indicates how well quality lathes will hold their value.

[Nigel Tracy]

Joe,

I have access to larger wood, and love making larger stuff.

I for one would love to have a 24" swing to work with. (Mine's 18")

And I wouldn't worry about the fixed headstock at all with a larger swing like that.

Like my grandfather said to me once, "your lathe only has to be too small once, then you need a bigger one" so I'd suggest you think about what you'll be making, as well as what you *just might* be making on it.

Just my .02 to confuse the issue :)

Nigel

[Joe Mioux]

thank you all for the responses.

let me say that the only problem with this lathe is that it has saw dust on it from a big 36 inch wide belt sander nearby.

The pulleys and belt look showroom new. The only paint scratches are on the tool rest and those are very very few.

I would not normally buy something this large, but the price is attractive.

(my real wish list lathe is a stubby s750, but that is a different $ world)

I also like the weight. I have a bunch of large hard maple lying around so the size would be nice if I wanted to do something bigger.

[Nigel Tracy]

Wow Joe, sounds like a no-brainer to me if you are in the market for a big lathe. I would consider that a steal for 3k (or anything less!).

[Montgomery Scott]

Unless the design for the 4224 has changed recently the statement that there is no provision for outboard turning is simply incorrect.

http://equipmentsalesandsurplus.com/productDetail.cfm?type=new&productID=511&categoryID=10

My local supplier sells the outboard turning assembly for this lathe for $600.

I have a sliding headstock on my lathe and, while it's nice to have, it would be easy to live without.

[Ted Calver]

Montgomery,
I'm saving up for that outboard assembly, but noticed the description in the link you posted had this included, which I think is in error.

'Adjustable Headstock Transforms the Lathe from a Long Bed Lathe to a Short Bed Lathe with Ease '

[Wally Dickerman]

Unless the design for the 4224 has changed recently the statement that there is no provision for outboard turning is simply incorrect.

http://equipmentsalesandsurplus.com/productDetail.cfm?type=new&productID=511&categoryID=10

My local supplier sells the outboard turning assembly for this lathe for $600.

I have a sliding headstock on my lathe and, while it's nice to have, it would be easy to live without.

The headstock on the 4224 is stationary. There is no provision for an outboard bed. For $600 PM has a floor stand tool rest available.

I once had a lathe that included a floor stand outboard tool rest. I found it to be difficult to use. IMO, the sliding headstock on the PM 3520 and on the more expensive Robust is a very desirable feature. A long bed and a short bed lathe all in one. Hollowing and coring is much easier when the turner can stand facing the piece when using the short bed.

Wally

[Matt Hutchinson]

This might help.

PM 4224 Outboard Assembly (http://www.osolnikmachinery.com/6295858k-outboardturningassemblyforpowermatic4224lathe.aspx )

With this assembly there is a 48" swing capacity. You'll notice in the picture provided by the equipmentsalesandsurplus link that there are holes machined in the outboard side of the leg to take a bed extension, just like the 3520B.

Hutch

[Dick Strauss]

Yes there is an outboard option for the 4224....page 24 of the manual shows this info:

Part No. Description

6295845 Short Outfeed Bed Extension, 20"
6295846 Tool Rest Base Assembly, 24"

[Wally Dickerman]

This might help.

PM 4224 Outboard Assembly (http://www.osolnikmachinery.com/6295858k-outboardturningassemblyforpowermatic4224lathe.aspx )

With this assembly there is a 48" swing capacity. You'll notice in the picture provided by the equipmentsalesandsurplus link that there are holes machined in the outboard side of the leg to take a bed extension, just like the 3520B.

Hutch

Well, learn something new every day. I have a friend who has a 4224. He inquired from a PM dealer about an outboard unit and was told that PM didn't make one. Perhaps it's something new. It makes the 4224 a more attractive lathe IMO.

$1000 for the unit? That's very pricey. I have an outboard bed and toolrest on my Oneway and it's about half that price. Oneway isn't noted for being low priced. I do a lot of my turning on the outboard side. Especially hollowing.

I wonder if the OB thread on the 4224 is RH or LH. On the Oneway it's RH on both so that a chuck/faceplate can be transferred from one to the other. They can and must be locked on of course if the lathe is run in reverse.

Wally

[Dick Gerard]

The lack of a sliding headstock should not deter you from jumping on this deal, provided you are willing to pay for (or already have) an outboard tool rest, or a free standing tool rest. Then you could turn as large as the the distance from the spindle center to just above the floor ... somewhere near 7 or 8 feet if I remember my ancient math.