Can I use this motor on my BS?

[Matt Day]

My old 1/2HP motor on my 14" Rockwell BS seems to be slowing dying, and has never been up to the task to do much of any resawing. I have a 6" riser installed and have a resaw blade, and it slows and will stall on even 3-4" thick stock.

So I've always been on the lookout for a replacement motor in the 1-1.5 HP range (1725 RPM, 56Z frame). I came across this nice Baldor motor, pictured below for the low low price of free. It matches my basic requirements, but as you can see it's double ended and I don't think the arbor has the same pully attachment as my current one.

The arbors are about 12" long, so I'm wondering if 1) can I cut them down and/or cut the one off I wouldn't use 2) If I cut them, how would I mount the pulley and 3) how bad would it be to mount a pulley where the flat starts ~4" out?

It would be great to get a nice 1.5HP Baldor motor running on my BS for very little cost (a new motor would run about $120, and that's a cheapo HF model with a 20% coupon). Comments?

Did I mention how smoooooooth the bearings are?

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Matt, that looks like a motor that's meant to mounted between two squirrel cage blowers.

Generally those motors aren't capable of cooling themselves, the air stream from the external blowers provides the required airflow.

It's difficult to read the nameplate, would you be able to post all the writing on it, with the exception of the wiring diagrams?

I would suggest contacting Baldor and asking if the motor is suitable for operating a wood working machine.

Regards, Rod.

[Myk Rian]

I would keep the pully close to the motor frame. You don't want the shaft to bend. Cut off what you don't need, and grind a new flat.

[Bill White]

Probably won't work on your set up. Send it to me (I'll pay frt.), and I'll see if I can get it to work on my BS. (Note to self: Maybe he'll bite on this deal.) :D
Bill

[Lee Schierer]

Hi Matt, that looks like a motor that's meant to mounted between two squirell cage blowers.

Generally those motors aren't capable of cooling themselves, the air stream from the external blowers provides the required airflow.

It's difficult to read the nameplate, would you be able to post all the writing on it, with the exception of the wiring diagrams?

I would suggest contacting Baldor and asking if the motor is suitable for operating a wood working machine.

Regards, Rod.


I agree with Rod, That motor needs a cooling fan. You might be able to buy a kit to mount one on the shaft opposite the pulley to the saw. Assuming you work out the cooling aspects, you'll want the pulley as close to the bearing as you can get it for longest bearing life. You should mount the pulley on a round shaft. The set screw or two set screw pulley should hold the pulley in place, but could be hard to remove. A file will easily add enough flat for a set screw to grip and not cause pulley removal problems..

[Mike Cruz]

Matt, assuming you CAN use this for A machine, I would use it for sanding. You can either get pneumatic thingies (can't think of their names off hand) to put on the ends fairly inexpensively, or there are foam ones on Ebay (PM me if you are interested in those, I can give you a link to the guys listings). So, for around $100, you could have a double sander, or a sander and a buffer. Something to consider.

Another thing to look at. What is the speed of the motor? For your band saw, you likely need one at 1725. If it is 3450, it is way too fast for your BS. Unless you get a larger pully. But then you have to figure out what size, etc.

[Matt Day]

Matt, assuming you CAN use this for A machine, I would use it for sanding. You can either get pneumatic thingies (can't think of their names off hand) to put on the ends fairly inexpensively, or there are foam ones on Ebay (PM me if you are interested in those, I can give you a link to the guys listings). So, for around $100, you could have a double sander, or a sander and a buffer. Something to consider.

Another thing to look at. What is the speed of the motor? For your band saw, you likely need one at 1725. If it is 3450, it is way too fast for your BS. Unless you get a larger pully. But then you have to figure out what size, etc.

Mike,

I'm not really interested in it as a sander, but thanks for the suggestion. I think I can buy something similar to what you're talking about as an attachment to my lathe. For kicks, PM me the ebay listing and I'll check it out while I'm "working".

As I said in my original post, it is indeed 1725 rpm. The main things I looked at on the motor was that it's 1phase (there are dozens of nice 3 phase motos, but I don't want to get into phase conversion), 1.5 HP, and 1725 rpm.

I'll get the rest of the info on the motor this morning.

[Matt Day]

Okay, so maybe I looked at too many motors and got a couple things confused, but here is what the motor says:

Frame: 56Z
HP: 1 TE (totally enclosed?)
Volts: 110/220 // 115/230
Amps: 14.2 / 7.1 // 9.5 / 4.9
RPM: 1400//1700
HZ: 50//60
PH: 1
Des: -
Class: B
Code: J
Ser. F.: 1.40
Full Load EFF: 72%
P.F.: 92%
Rating: 50C AMB CONT
SFA 16.4 / 8.2 // 12 8

The arbors are 7 1/2" total length, and the 2 flats start at 2 1/2" from the motor. I know I'd have to do the calcs to get the right size pulley since the RPM's are slightly different from my current motor, but i wonder if i could use a pulley like this one:
http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/Single-Groove-Cast-Iron-Pulley-4-1-2-/H3222
Could I cut down the arbor and leave ~ 1" of the flats, drill & tap for a setscrew in the pulley and mount it outboard so the belt is only about 1 1/2" from the motor?

Thanks a lot guys.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Matt, what's the model # of the motor?

Regards, Rod.

[kenneth kayser]

That should be a very good motor for your BS. Use it with some caution. The band saw was designed to use a 3/4HP motor max, I think. double the HP might overload the bearings, tires, etc. if you ran the saw hard. As for cooling, I would just try it. the general rule for motors is, if you can hold your hand on it, it is not too hot. If it does overheat, you could buy a small room fan and connect it so that it runs with the motor.

To hold the pulley from moving on the shaft, you could extend the flat. However, it might be better to make a small drill guide and put a little detent in the shaft. Two set screws would be best about 135 deg from each other. With only one set screw, I would use locktite.

[Matt Day]

Glad to hear that Ken! If I decide to extend the flats inward a bit, what would the best tool for that be? Handheld grinder?

I may just cut it down and leave the existing flats, and use 2 set screws at 90 degrees to eachother, and I'll probably use that dimple suggestion of yours too.

Since the pulley is of course the power transmission for the saw, it would be nice to use a key, but I'm not sure I how I could cut one in there. Any suggestions? If I don't have a key, the pulley would rely on the 2 set screws (I'd of course put the biggest on there I could). Do you think I could drill a hole through the arbor and use a bolt to hold the pulley on?

Rod, the Spec is 35M316S174 and the Ser. is F1194. I didn't find anything on baldor.com matching this, or by a google search.

[Tom Veatch]

That should be a very good motor for your BS. Use it with some caution. The band saw was designed to use a 3/4HP motor max, I think. double the HP might overload the bearings, tires, etc. if you ran the saw hard....

I don't believe there's a lot of danger to the saw from an upgrade of this magnitude. The load on the wheels, bearings, etc. from the blade tension is so great that the load from the maximum torque the motor can develop is lost in the grass.

When I upgraded my saw from 1.5 to 3 HP, I ran the numbers to see what the increased load might be and was somewhat surprised at how little structural load the motor adds to the blade tensioning load. I'd have to rerun the numbers to be sure, but, IIRC, the added 1.5 HP on my machine was somewhere around a 5% increase in maximum frame load even at the motor's breakdown torque.

The stresses on the frame, bearings, etc. from the blade tension, are far, far, greater than the stresses from the motor torque.

One place where the increased motor loads might be significant is on the table and table mounts since that's where the cutting loads are reacted. Even there, the magnitude of the increased load wasn't enough to cause me to have second thoughts about adding the additional 1.5HP. Again, I'd have to run the numbers to be sure, but I'm remembering something well under 20 pounds of added table load per added motor horsepower.

[peter leyden]

I don't know what all the fuss is about. #1 - If the original motor rpm is anywhere in the vicinity of 1750 rpm you can use the original pulley. #2 - Cut both shafts down to 2 1/2" ( long enough to mount any pulley). If the non-usable shaft would cause a problem of fit in an enclosed base cut it to a minimum length(1/2"),(you can cut it down by running the motor and holding a hacksaw against the shaft). Saves energy. #3 - File or grind a flat on the shaft using a file, Dremel tool , sandpaper wrapped around a paint stirrer stick etc. #4 - As per previous suggestions check the motor under load and see how hot it gets. Resawing usually gives motors a good workout so you should know fairly quickly if overheating will be an issue. If overheating is an issue a small fan("Rotron" type) could be used for cooling. These are readily available on eBay.
Lots of luck
Peter Leyden

[Matt Day]

Peter,

What you wrote is exactly what I needed to know - thanks so much! I like the idea of running it and holding the hacksaw blade by the way, this might be the easiest hacksaw job I've ever done :)

I'll probably pick up the motor tomorrow and start playing with it.

Thanks a lot SMC!

[David Lockledge]

You are going to love having the extra horsepower. I put a 2 hp on my cheap 14" bandsaw and can now really resaw.
Two tricks-- one is that sheaves (pulleys) are readily available at Grainger's at low cost (less than $5.00).
I had a sharpening shop weld up some blades for me. They were cheap at $7.00 each and they were a heavier guage than I have seen before. They track well through the wood.

[Kerry Lorts]

Just a thought, what if you were to mount up fan blades on the opposite shaft that way you would have constant airflow around the motor. You would have to get the direction right to make sure you weren't pulling air away from the motor but pushing towards it. Just my $.02

-Kerry

[Matt Day]

Update:

I called Baldor in search of some motor mount pieces, and it turns out it's a custom motor. The nice guy in CS dug up a cut sheet on the part I needed an emailed it to me. I was going to try to track them down from a vendor, but decided I'd try to make them myself. I ended up modifying some hose clamps and it worked like a charm.

I didn't cut down the shafts yet, but tapped a new hole in the pulley for a set screw so now there are two set screws contacting the shaft on the flats. I should probably lock tight these down now that I think about it.

I got the motor mounted up on Friday, and WOW it's like a new bandsaw! I resawed a piece of 8" walnut (I know it's not the hardest, but it was the first scrap I found) and it went through like butter - no hesitation at all when I pushed it through at a high feed rate. I had to feed at a snails pace with the old motor and it would still bog down.

I'm pretty excited I got a $400 motor for free that suped up my BS!

Thanks for your help guys.

[kenneth kayser]

Glad to hear that Ken! If I decide to extend the flats inward a bit, what would the best tool for that be? Handheld grinder?

I may just cut it down and leave the existing flats, and use 2 set screws at 90 degrees to eachother, and I'll probably use that dimple suggestion of yours too.

Since the pulley is of course the power transmission for the saw, it would be nice to use a key, but I'm not sure I how I could cut one in there. Any suggestions? If I don't have a key, the pulley would rely on the 2 set screws (I'd of course put the biggest on there I could). Do you think I could drill a hole through the arbor and use a bolt to hold the pulley on?

Rod, the Spec is 35M316S174 and the Ser. is F1194. I didn't find anything on baldor.com matching this, or by a google search.

You will never cut a keyway in the shaft (unless you have a milling machine or broach). Just file a short flat where the set screw will contact the shaft. Use a good quality hardened set screw (cup point) and tighten it as tight as you dare (with a hex key, not a socket wrench). Bring the screw down slowly and be sure the screw is at right angles to the flat. The screw is much harder than the shaft and will bite into the shaft. As long as the screw stays tight, it should never slip. If the screw loosens, use locktite. Also, there are set screws that have teeth in the cup point that hold even better, but they may be difficult to find.

One thing I forgot about is that, if you drive the set screw into the round part of the shaft, you will raise a burr which may make the pulley very difficult to remove and may score the bore of the pulley.

[Van Huskey]

Nothing like souping up a machine for free!