What's Faster a Scraper or Sander?

[Andrew Joiner]

I have a lot of cabinets to build. Solid wood face frames and oak and birch plywood sides.

The plywood is factory sanded to 150 or 180 grit, so that's as far as I need to go to be ready to finish.

I never see scrapers in production wood shops. But I was reading up on Lie Nelson and Veritas scraper planes and some claims that they're faster than sanding. Hard to believe from my experience with card scrapers.

Including the time it takes to keep a scraper sharp, would it ever be faster than a decent RO sander?

[doug faist]

Andrew - Just my own experience, but when I want to get a job DONE, I use a drum sander and finish with a ROS. When I want to do the job REALLY WELL I sharpen up the scrapers and take the time. I like the finish much better with the scraper, but when time is a consideration, the power tools get the nod.

My $.02.

Doug

[Brian Hale]

IMHO it's not always about speed. I prefer a scraper to sandpaper because it's quiter, doesn't throw dust in the air and i think the wood looks more natural. If you talking about leveling joints than a hand plane, followed by a scraper, works well for that.

Brian :)

[Tri Hoang]

I often don't need to sand my BB plywood. I just plane it smooth with my smoother. There is more than enough veneer to take a few light passes and that's all it needs. In these cases, the smoother will leave the sander 'in the dust' - pun intended. Even the crappy borg plywood has enough veneer for 3-4 light passes.

[John Thompson]

I have been using scrapers for approximately 36 years Andrew. I can put a new edge on one in under a minute. But.. with that said if I were working with cabinets I would use the ROS on the face frames. I personally consider the scraper in-valuable and use it almost every piece I build. But.. I build one-off carcasses and don't have dead-lines. I think the ROS would be more suited for commercial work as not everyone will even get the hang of putting a new edge on one. The ROS is versatile and about any Tom.. Dick and Harry can use one. :)

[Gary Herrmann]

It depends.

How big of a surface are you going to finish?

How many pieces are you going to finish?

Do you have a multi head wide belt sander handy?

Do you like hand tools?

Try it on a cabinet door or small tabletop for yourself and see. You might also want to throw smoothing planes into the mix.

It all depends on what's important to you.

[Bob Strawn]

I have a lot of cabinets to build. Solid wood face frames and oak and birch plywood sides.

The plywood is factory sanded to 150 or 180 grit, so that's as far as I need to go to be ready to finish.

I never see scrapers in production wood shops. But I was reading up on Lie Nelson and Veritas scraper planes and some claims that they're faster than sanding. Hard to believe from my experience with card scrapers.

Including the time it takes to keep a scraper sharp, would it ever be faster than a decent RO sander?

This would be my observation, your mileage may vary.

Initially Top quality 60 grit sandpaper is faster. After you then go to 120 grit it is still faster to start but it cakes and clogs quickly. The scraper does not have the same issue with clogs. At 220 the scraper is about equal with sandpaper, but can leave a 1000 grit or better finish. Since it is not going bad as quickly, the scraper is a better value. Higher grits than 220 suffer in comparison with a scraper. Some things are generally not as well done with a scraper. Some surfaces need to be sanded or planed before they are scraped. Edges and corners are much better handled with sandpaper than with a scraper.

A well tuned scraper however is freaking magic, but sadly cannot eliminate the need for sandpaper entirely. A scraper is much more economical to use, and is much better for removing finishes and gunk.

Bob

[Andrew Gibson]

I have a random orbit sander sitting in the cabinet. It needs a new rubber band belt thingy and a new pad. I have no reason at the moment to go get the replacement parts for it. If I need to do some light leveling of a panel that has been glued up or I need to remove tear out, I'll grab a card scraper or a scraper plane. After that I can hand sand with a block and 150 or higher grit paper. I don't care if the sander is faster I will take the extra time and not use it.

Now I need to work replacing the router and the shop will a much more pleasant place to be.

[harry strasil]

No matter what grit sandpaper you use, it leaves scratches, a scraper followed by a hardwood burnishing leaves a shine not a dull finish, unless that's what you want a DULL finish under the protectorant sealer, varnish or whatever. Not knowing how modern sandpaper breaks down to stay sharp, the rule of thumb years ago was, never use an edged tool after sandpaper as the residue it leaves behind quickly dulls edge tools.

[Andrew Joiner]

Thanks for the replies.

Gary here's my answers.

How big of a surface are you going to finish?
A 3"x 60"rail or stile. The rails are glued a hair proud of the ply sides but need be flush to the ply. I usually use 2 RO orbit sanders one in each hand.

How many pieces are you going to finish?
Close to 70 now more soon.

Do you have a multi head wide belt sander handy?
No.

Do you like hand tools?
Sure but, but I'm interested in the fastest methods.

[Harlan Barnhart]

... Not knowing how modern sandpaper breaks down to stay sharp, the rule of thumb years ago was, never use an edged tool after sandpaper as the residue it leaves behind quickly dulls edge tools.
I've wondered about this before but never had anyone confirm my suspicions.

As far as RO sander vs. scraper for speed, it will no doubt depend on a lot of variables including, how smooth is "enough", How gnarly is the grain, accessibility (a card scraper is great in corners) ect... Try both and see which you prefer.

[Kevin Groenke]

No matter what grit sandpaper you use, it leaves scratches, a scraper followed by a hardwood burnishing leaves a shine not a dull finish, unless that's what you want a DULL finish under the protectorant sealer, varnish or whatever.

Yes, yes yes. What Harry said! Sanding is scratching, scraping is shaving. Is your face smoother if you shave it or of you scratch off the stubble?

[bob hertle]

I scrape in the winter, sand in the summer! Really, in summer I do all my sanding outside. (actually whenever weather permits) I, and LOML don't care for the dust in the basement shop. I do own a Stanley #80, and a couple of Sandvik card scrapers and I love 'em. They get used mostly when it's too cold to work outside, or when you want that perfectly clear, crisp look that you get when you don't "muddy" the surface by sanding. Not for big surfaces though, too time consuming.

Bob

[James Taglienti]

I think that in a fast paced production environment you're just better off with a sander. not only is there no chance of tearout to slow things down, but industrial stains are engineered for sanded surfaces. also most of the lumber comes sanded (like plywood) so there isn't much reason to change that. I worked in a commercial cabinet shop for a year. I used a jack plane about 3 times, a block plane occasionally, and a card scraper basically just on glue squeeze out. Everything else was the air sanders and wide belts and things like that.

[Andrew Joiner]

Thanks for the feedback.

The plywood is factory sanded to 150 or 180 grit so that's what I need to match. I wouldn't want to scrape the entire plywood sides just to match the scraped face frame's smoothness.

I'm answering my own question here I guess. Even if scraping is equal in speed or faster than sanding I need 2 hands for 1 scraper. Since I usually use 2 RO orbit sanders one in each hand, sanding is faster.