Ripping on a slider

[Steve Rowe]

Based on some recent posts and questions regarding sliding table saws, there seems to be a misconception that ripping on a slider is problematic and difficult/time consuming to set up. It can be if the operator attempts to rip using a slider like a cabinet saw. The problem is that if you have a long sliding table, the extension at the front of the machine gets in the way if you attempt to stand in front of the machine. While this is the correct operating position for a cabinet saw, it is not for the slider. This is what most of us tend to do when we get a slider given that old habits are hard to break. I have used a number of techniques to rip lumber on the slider and this is one that I use most often.

In the first 3 pictures, you see S2S stock clamped to the table with a device called the edging shoe at the far end and a modified Kreg hold-down at the near end. The edging shoe comes with the saw (at least it does for the two brands I have owned). The 4th picture shows the completed straight line rip. Note that the fence on the crosscut table has been slid to the left to clear the board.

In the last four pictures, you see the edging shoe removed, the crosscut fence slid back to the right, and the attachment of a support table, and parallel fence. The support table just clips on to the edge of the table and the parallel fence drops into place. The crosscut stop and parallel fence are used together to get a parallel cut. I got lazy on this setup and did not use a clamp at the far end. Note that the crosscut stop can only get so close to the blade. Ripping pieces narrower than this requires the use of a spacer (of convenient length for easy math;)) between the stop and the piece to be ripped.

For ripping extremely narrow pieces such as edgebanding, clamping becomes a problem. In these cases, I usually clamp a wider piece to the table and use the rip fence in a crosscut stop position to set the width of the rip. In this case, the off cut is the piece to be sized.

In performing all of the above cuts, my hands were at least 14 inches away from the blade and my body was out of the line of fire from the blade.

Hopefully, this will help answer some of the questions on ripping with a slider. There are obviously other methods for ripping on a slider, this just happens to work best for me. I encourage others to post pics and descriptions of their techniques.

Steve

[johnny means]

Based on some recent posts and questions regarding sliding table saws, there seems to be a misconception that ripping on a slider is problematic and difficult/time consuming to set up. It can be if the operator attempts to rip using a slider like a cabinet saw. Ripping pieces narrower than this requires the use of a spacer (of convenient length for easy math;)) between the stop and the piece to be ripped.

For ripping extremely narrow pieces such as edgebanding, clamping becomes a problem. In these cases, I usually clamp a wider piece to the table and use the rip fence in a crosscut stop position to set the width of the rip. In this case, the off cut is the piece to be sized.



Steve

That sounds pretty problematic and time consuming to me, at least relative to the same operation on a cabinet saw.

My SCMI has a similar set-up. It has never seen the light of day. Adjusting two fences to achieve a single measurement is inherently problematic. on my cabinet saw I can get a 1", 2", 3", and a 4" rip from a 12' board without taking a single step. On my slider I would have walked the length of that board 7 times just to adjust the fences.

Personally, I bought a slider in order to avoid having to use tricks like spacers and jigs in order to cut wood. IMO, after spending a small fortune on the utility and convenience of a slider, it seems criminal to still be "making due". Once your in deep enough to own a slider you may as well
add on the cabinet saw "option". Hell, at Felder the price of the edging shoe, parallel fence, and extension table is almost enough to get you a decent cabinet saw.
On the occasion that I do rip on my slider I just use the rip fence (pulled back) like normal with a "push" board laid on the table to finish the cut.

BTW Nice saw. Is that the newer T74?

[Rick Potter]

It also looks problematic to me, and I have a Felder. My problem with ripping that way is that I bought the 5' wagon because of space concerns, and I often rip boards longer than that. I sometimes use the rip fence on the Felder, and just work around the bump out.

I say sometimes, because I kept my Unisaw, and normally do all ripping on it. the slider is great for panels, and can be adapted to do a lot of other things, but I find it easier to do some things on the Unisaw, and use the Felder for what it was built for...panels. I am glad I have both.

But then, I am an old dog set in my ways, so don't listen to me.

Rick Potter

[Steve Rowe]

Come on guys, 3 replies and all of you want to change the topic that you prefer something else. If you want that to be the topic, start another thread. The point of this thread is education and answer some misconceptions about ripping on the slider. If you prefer something else, that is OK but, is not the purpose of this thread.

[Todd Willhoit]

Come on guys, 3 replies and all of you want to change the topic that you prefer something else. If you want that to be the topic, start another thread. The point of this thread is education and answer some misconceptions about ripping on the slider. If you prefer something else, that is OK but, is not the purpose of this thread.

Amen to that.

Steve, thanks for the info. I am new to the slider world and find your tutorial very useful.

Todd

[Mark Bolton]

That sounds pretty problematic and time consuming to me, at least relative to the same operation on a cabinet saw.
?

While I dont rip that way on my slider, the simple fact of the matter is, unless you have a 12' rip fence on your cabinet saw, you rip will only be as straight as the length of the fence. It may well suit your application, but ripping as shown on the slider will produce a dead straight board with two dead parallel edges at your sliders length with only two settings.

I am not defending the ripping procedure here but heck, once you get the ripping guide on, all you do is stand in the middle, set the flip stop, set the guide, and rip. I dont quite see where the seven trips would come from unless your coffee is across the shop and you have to pee a couple of times. Yuk Yuk.

Personally I have never liked ripping on a cabinet saw for anything long. I have never been satisfied with the results. I think for me, running our sawmill as well, I seem to transition over to the slider pretty easily. It is the identical way the wood you are working with is produced (odd huh? the manufacturers are not sliding a log/cant along a short fence to produce your lumber?). Generally if you are looking for consistency and production you look to the industries that manufacture what your buying. The sawmill industry moves their material in the exact manner a slider does. Hold the board on a set of rails and pass it by a blade.

For me, its a no brainer but whatever works for each person and what they feel safest with is most important.

Mark

[Paul Greathouse]

Thanks for the Tutorial Steve,

I had started the thread, "Slider verses Cabinet Saw", there was alot of good information there but I would definately like to see more of what you have started on this thread. Hopefully others will share their techniques on the slider also.

[Mike Heidrick]

Deleted my tracksaw and smiley pictures.

I think the education of using a slider to rip is great.

[John A langley]

Like I said in Paul's thread, if I were to start my business over and if I knew then what I know now I would have bought my slider first. Realizing that finances are a big concern, those that can pay between $12K and $20 for a slider can certainly afford, at some point, to buy a tablesaw. If I knew how to post pictures I could show you my setup - but my slider and my tablesaw basically do not take up any more of a footprint than the slider. With that said, the one given is, a slider can do more and do it more accurately but they both have a place in woodworking. Because I have a tablesaw I have never given much thought to ripping on the slider. In this thread, the original post is very informative to me. It looks like it would be very easy to get used to and get good quality rips. I appreciate you taking the time to post the information.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Steve, thanks for posting that. That straight line rip is only one benefit of a slider, and only one of the optional ways to rip.

Everyone else, can somebody please tell me what exactly is the difficulty with ripping with a slider as you would on a conventional saw???? So you stand in a very slightly different spot. Oh, the horror.

My Felder has a better rip fence than any of the conventional saws that I've had, more table space, more power, more precision, better electronics, more capacity, more stability, better riving knife, better dust extraction, better scoring, and oh, it also has a really cool option of a superb X-roll sliding table! I don't see the problem here!

[Travis Porter]

I have a Felder, and currently do not have the rip attachments like you do on your Martin, but I do have the shoe.

I TOTALLY agree, straight line ripping with the shoe is the only way to straighten a board, but I do not yet feel the samw way about the ripping functions.......

I used a "US" style cabinet saw for many many years, and I am still getting accustomed to the "slider". Say you don't have the ripping accessories you show. Are you not going to have to stand behind the saw say for ripping wide stuff? Where do you stand in the same scenario ripping narrower, say less than 12" stocK?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Are you not going to have to stand behind the saw say for ripping wide stuff? Where do you stand in the same scenario ripping narrower, say less than 12" stocK?

Stand in the same place you would with a conventional saw, and a bit to the right, or outside the table to the left.

[Peter Quinn]

The point of this thread is education and answer some misconceptions about ripping on the slider.

Sounds Like there has been some education Steve, but not of the persons you were thinking, You now know that a number of experienced individuals that have tried several methods of ripping different stock widths on the sliding panel saw actually PREFER the cabinet saw over the method you featured. Count me among them. Education can be funny like that.

When I step up to a machine to rip widths at work, I may have a cart and cut list with hundreds of parts at widths varying from 3/4"-9" for a given cabinet job. Plus applied beads at .275"-.375", edge banding at .125", and so on. I'm going to rough my parts from wider stock at the start, I'm going to rip to final width at some point later. All this is very quick and dead simple on a standard cabinet saw, or a dedicated straight line rip saw too, but few have those in the home shop. On the slider? I'd venture to say that by the time you are done resetting all those parallel stops and shoes I would be in glue up on the same assembly.

So if a wood worker has room for one saw only, or a budget for one saw, or some compelling reason to use only one saw, then your pictorial description of panel saw ripping is invaluable and evidence that ripping on a slider can be accurate, pleasant and safe. But many of us have tried it using methods just as you explain and decided "this sucks, where is my cabinet saw?" Those who haven't tried both will at least learn that opinions and methods sure do vary. No actual cats were skinned for this demonstration, but a number of theoretical ones have not been seen for some time.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Forgive this very dumb question. I've never seen a slider in real life, and am curious.

I've looked through lots of pictures showing the use of a slider, and I'm still not sure I understand (too many different-looking aluminum extrusions to keep track of). If I understand correctly, with a slider, I can:

-Straight-line rip a board using the sliding table alone (and some clamps)

-Mount a fence 90* to the sliding table to crosscut

-Mount a rip fence parallel to the sliding table to rip

(I attached a picture of how I think this works - is it correct?)


I've also seen sliders that appear to have a standard (US-style) rip fence to the right of the blade. What is that for?

[Mark Bolton]

I have a Felder, and currently do not have the rip attachments like you do on your Martin, but I do have the shoe.

I TOTALLY agree, straight line ripping with the shoe is the only way to straighten a board, but I do not yet feel the samw way about the ripping functions.......

I used a "US" style cabinet saw for many many years, and I am still getting accustomed to the "slider". Say you don't have the ripping accessories you show. Are you not going to have to stand behind the saw say for ripping wide stuff? Where do you stand in the same scenario ripping narrower, say less than 12" stocK?


Travis,
I will try to take an image of my ripping setup (shop made) for my slider. It is very simple however. Just imaging a large speed square sitting on the carriage. One leg of the speed square is against the fence, the other is running the length of the slider. I made mine out of 1/2" ply and attached solid material to the right angle faces. I cut a large radius in diagonal portion to allow me to stand close to the slider.

I simply clamp this right angle square to the fence and use my flip stops for measures (adjusting the scales). When I made the square I recessed the screws that fasten the solid material to the edge that runs along the blade. Then my first pass was cutting that edge on the saw. This made that edge perfectly in line with the blade. Now I simply slide the square to my desired dimension, place the straightlined board against the square and rip. Simple.

The jig weighs about 15lbs and hangs on wall beside my slider. It also is great used as a tapering jig for long pieces. You can swing your fence to any setting and taper.

I originally built it to miter some long wide poplar boards (5/4 x 12 x 9') which were for a project wrapping some large rafters to look like timbers. I needed a dead straight miter and with a right tilt saw the captive cut issue is well,....

Works good for me.

Mark

[Leigh Betsch]

While there is some problems in this picture of daughter, like I didn't have the blade guard on and I should have had the fence pulled back so the off cut would "fall" away from the blade, this is how I rip most short stuff. Registered up against the rip fence but pushed thru with the crosscut fence. Register the lead edge to the rip fence, clamp it, and then "hold of push" the stock against the fence as you push thru with the slider.

You also have to understand that on a slider the rip fence is usually set to tail away from the right side of the blade by a bit so you don't get a wedging action on the cut off. And the crosscut wagon is also set to tail away on the left side of the blade for the same reason. And no this doesn't result in tapered cuts. Because of the tailing away design you really minimize the potential for kickbacks and burning. The accuracy is built into the wagon, the "rip" fence is just used to register the stock the same distance from the blade, the parallel and straight accuracy isn't taken from the rip fence. With a good blade and proper feed, a cut both straight and parallel to .004 accuracy is quite normal and never more than .010 on an 8 ft rip.

I also like my 8 ft in feed and out feed table that moves back to the center of the saw when I want the space for something else, more than makes up of having to walk around the bump out when I do use the saw from the "wrong" side.

I think the OP didn't want this thread to turn into a Us vs Them argument but rather just a demonstration of it's done on a slider. I hope this doesn't detract.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Leigh,

With the fence on the right, can you just use the saw like a normal cabinet saw to rip?

It seems like using it with the sliding table lets you repetitively cut very thin strips quite easily. Is that true?

[Andrew Joiner]

Thanks for all the ideas. I was totally happy with my cabinet saw and vertical panel saw, but now you got me thinking. I'm going to make a jig for straight line ripping on my vertical panel saw.

Great thread.

[Steve Rowe]

Leigh,

With the fence on the right, can you just use the saw like a normal cabinet saw to rip?

It seems like using it with the sliding table lets you repetitively cut very thin strips quite easily. Is that true?

Absolutely correct Dan,
I just got in from the shop with the second installment. This is how I make 1/8" edgebanding. It is the same as what Leigh uses (hey - I even borrowed the hold-down clamps from the Minimax shaper)

The first pic shows the rip fence pulled back to prevent the offcut from being captured between the blade and the fence. I positioned the fence to the low height position so the blade would be guarded and for better dust collection.

Pic 2 shows the setup before ripping and pic 3 shows the offcut. Pic 4 shows the setup for the second cut which took just a few seconds to reset. Pic 5 is presto, in no time, 3 pieces of edgebanding are made. The last picture shows a narrow piece of molding I made for a previous project using the same technique.

During all this operation, the blade was fully guarded with no danger of contact to the operator. My sliding table is nearly 16" wide my hands were on the handle that attaches to the outside edge of the sliding table.

Steve

[Steve Rowe]

Now we're cooking with gas. Your conclusion hit the nail on the head.
Steve

While there is some problems in this picture of daughter, like I didn't have the blade guard on and I should have had the fence pulled back so the off cut would "fall" away from the blade, this is how I rip most short stuff. Registered up against the rip fence but pushed thru with the crosscut fence. Register the lead edge to the rip fence, clamp it, and then "hold of push" the stock against the fence as you push thru with the slider.

You also have to understand that on a slider the rip fence is usually set to tail away from the right side of the blade by a bit so you don't get a wedging action on the cut off. And the crosscut wagon is also set to tail away on the left side of the blade for the same reason. And no this doesn't result in tapered cuts. Because of the tailing away design you really minimize the potential for kickbacks and burning. The accuracy is built into the wagon, the "rip" fence is just used to register the stock the same distance from the blade, the parallel and straight accuracy isn't taken from the rip fence. With a good blade and proper feed, a cut both straight and parallel to .004 accuracy is quite normal and never more than .010 on an 8 ft rip.

I also like my 8 ft in feed and out feed table that moves back to the center of the saw when I want the space for something else, more than makes up of having to walk around the bump out when I do use the saw from the "wrong" side.

I think the OP didn't want this thread to turn into a Us vs Them argument but rather just a demonstration of it's done on a slider. I hope this doesn't detract.

[David DeCristoforo]

What you are describing here is not so much "ripping" as it is "straight lining", something that a sliding table excels at. The only limitation is the length of the slider's stroke. If you have an 8' slider, that is going to be the longest stock you can straight line. But ripping against the fence is still going to be more awkward on the slider because you will always have to lean and/or reach over the sliding table and it's supporting structure. Some people don't mind this but for me, it is uncomfortable, especially over a long period.

[Rick Potter]

Hey Steve Rowe,

I forgot to mention that I love the vise grip type clamp on the slider. I will steal the idea from you. Another one of those 'why didn't I think of that' ideas.

Rick Potter

PS: Sorry if I stepped on your thread, I did not mean my initial remarks in a confrontational way. I do use the slider and fence together for repetitive short rips, but the cabinet saw is still my ripping go to machine. Old dogs, new tricks.

[Steve Rowe]

I have a Felder, and currently do not have the rip attachments like you do on your Martin, but I do have the shoe.

I TOTALLY agree, straight line ripping with the shoe is the only way to straighten a board, but I do not yet feel the samw way about the ripping functions.......

I used a "US" style cabinet saw for many many years, and I am still getting accustomed to the "slider". Say you don't have the ripping accessories you show. Are you not going to have to stand behind the saw say for ripping wide stuff? Where do you stand in the same scenario ripping narrower, say less than 12" stocK?

Travis,
I believe it really depends on the particular saws configuration of where you stand when ripping various width pieces. For my situation, the stock rip needs to be over 16" before I consider standing in front of the saw. For others, it may be different, just whatever feels comfortable. Before I had the commercial parallel fence, I had fabricated by own by clamping wooden stops in the t-slot for the table. This has obvious limitations on width which is why I went for the commercial fence option. When I ran into this situation before, I would stand to the left of the saw and reach over the table with a push stick to rip less than 12" stock.

I am aware of others who have configured an Incra fence to their sliding table and use that for a parallel fence. When


Hey Steve Rowe,

I forgot to mention that I love the vise grip type clamp on the slider. I will steal the idea from you. Another one of those 'why didn't I think of that' ideas.

Rick Potter

I must confess, this is not my design on the vise grip. It was a design of my late friend Jim L. who was quite creative in designing and fabricating shop jigs and fixtures. I think Jim would be happy knowing his design would be used by other woodworkers. Ironically, he didn't care for ripping using the slider and always used the rip fence.

Steve

[Brian Ross]

I appreciate the time those of you have spent on your posts relating to sliders. A couple of years ago I bought a used SCMI 350 N. There is a definite learning curve but the more I use it I am convinced they are worth their money many times over. Mine has a 10 ft carriage and was 4 years old when I bought it. I paid $10,000. including the taxes. Used saws these days are probably going for half of what I paid. I build kitchens by myself with 2 part timers. The saw has enabled me to cut sheet goods in half the time it took with my Unisaw and aftermarket Exactor sliding table and I know everything is cut square. The vice grip hold down is a great idea but I recently visited a fellow creeker, Steve Jenkins. He has a couple of aftermarket pneumatic hold downs that are to die for. If I thought having Steve's hold downs would bring my skill level up to Steve's I would buy 6 of them. The guy produces fantastic work and a nice shop to boot.
Thanks again for the posts.

Brian

[Paul B. Cresti]

There are many ways to rip on a slider but only one way to rip on Cabinet Saw.

Every slider owner can come up with a different way to rip using either a jig of their own creation or with bought add on attachments for ease & speed.

See my ripping method below

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=29871

By the way Steve nice saw! Which model is it?

[Steve Rowe]

Hi Paul,
I remember you posted about sliders several years ago and I enjoyed those posts. The saw is a Martin T60 Classic. It has the T74 miter table and 2 point cross cut fence.
Steve


There are many ways to rip on a slider but only one way to rip on Cabinet Saw.

Every slider owner can come up with a different way to rip using either a jig of their own creation of with bought add on attachments for ease & speed.

See my ripping method below

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=29871

By the way Steve nice saw! Which model is it?

[Paul B. Cresti]

Hi Paul,
I remember you posted about sliders several years ago and I enjoyed those posts. The saw is a Martin T60 Classic. It has the T74 miter table and 2 point cross cut fence.
Steve

Nice! I thought maybe you opted for the the one that tilts both ways!
Is that T74 miter table the one that completely twists for angles?

[Steve Rowe]

The T74 miter table does move both ways and is quite a nice design. I would love to see the XPrecision model where the blade tilts both right and left just to see the mechanism.
Steve


Nice! I thought maybe you opted for the the one that tilts both ways!
Is that T74 miter table the one that completely twists for angles?

[Leigh Betsch]

I have to back off my statement of .004 accuracy a bit. I was in the shop today so I set up and tested my methods again. I didn't have any MDF long enough so I used a 6 ft piece of particle board and my blade is a bit dull but not too bad. It took me three attempts be for I could hold .004. And this is only a dial caliper measurement and not the most accurate way to measure. But I would say .010 accuracy is pretty much built in and .004 is doable with some fiddling around. But the only time I really give a hoot about measuring like this is when I get a new machine and want to set it up right and figure out how it is really working. (Except the planer where I use a dial caliper all the time).

Dan I think Steve already answered you but yes you can use the rip fence just like a cabinet saw if you want to. When you do use the rip fence like a cabinet saw there is no practical limit to the length.

[Mike Wilkins]

Thanks Steve. I have been using similar methods to edge rough boards and rip thin strips on my slider. And mine only has a 6' sliding table capacity, but it still works great. I was trying to use my slider like a regular cabinet saw after I got it set up, but soon realized my mind-set was all wrong. As many other have found out, there is a learning curve involved in using a slider for those who used cabinet saws for many years. But I would not want to go back to my old Unisaw, although I am setting up another 'regular' saw now for joinery and small box making set-ups.
I think part of the problem in getting used to a slider is the need for coming up with jigs for various operations, just like a cabinet saw needs jigs to utilize its full capacity. I think manufacturers have come up short in presenting these options to users, other than glossy pics in a catalog or web site. Owners are usually good about sharing ideas. Again thanks.

[Jim Becker]

I do a lot of my ripping on the slider wagon. While it does use some time for setup, the end result is a glue-ready edge that you cannot get by pushing a board along the fence. Consequently, the time that would have been taken to go back to the jointer is balanced by the setup time. And I built a parallel ripping jig that makes repeated rips to the same width fast, easy and accurate after the initial setup. I only use the fence for ripping narrow things and in that case, use conventional feather boards and push blocks.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...glue-ready edge that you cannot get by pushing a board along the fence..."

OK.. you got me on that one. I've been doing that for over thirty years now and I never once realized that it was not possible!

[Aaron Hastings]

"...glue-ready edge that you cannot get by pushing a board along the fence..."

OK.. you got me on that one. I've been doing that for over thirty years now and I never once realized that it was not possible!

Hell, that's the 2nd best selling point for the machine......;)

[Joe Jensen]

Jim, I took the plunge and sold my cabinet saw and I'm in the middle of setting a Felder 9ft slider. Have you posted on your parallel ripping setup in the past? I can use tons of help as I've been on a cabinet saw for almost 40 years


I do a lot of my ripping on the slider wagon. While it does use some time for setup, the end result is a glue-ready edge that you cannot get by pushing a board along the fence. Consequently, the time that would have been taken to go back to the jointer is balanced by the setup time. And I built a parallel ripping jig that makes repeated rips to the same width fast, easy and accurate after the initial setup. I only use the fence for ripping narrow things and in that case, use conventional feather boards and push blocks.

[lou sansone]

since jim and I have the same slider, I would also be interested in his rip set-up.


btw ... love the martin - which one do you have steve ? have you ever posted an entire post showing the features of the martin? would love to see you do that


lou

[Peter Quinn]

I do a lot of my ripping on the slider wagon. While it does use some time for setup, the end result is a glue-ready edge that you cannot get by pushing a board along the fence. Consequently, the time that would have been taken to go back to the jointer is balanced by the setup time. And I built a parallel ripping jig that makes repeated rips to the same width fast, easy and accurate after the initial setup. I only use the fence for ripping narrow things and in that case, use conventional feather boards and push blocks.

I don't know about the "can't get by pushing a board against the fence" statement Jm. I do it all the time without issue, and I know a lot of others that do as well. Have you forgotten how capable a good cabinet saw is?

[Mike Heidrick]

I read it as it takes a slider or a return trip to a jointer to get this quality of a glue ready cut - not that cuts made next to a fence cannot make an acceptable cut.

[Steve Rowe]

since jim and I have the same slider, I would also be interested in his rip set-up.


btw ... love the martin - which one do you have steve ? have you ever posted an entire post showing the features of the martin? would love to see you do that


lou

Lou,
I have the T60 Classic which replaced the Felder CF741SP combo I had. The combo just didn't fit my workstyle although it was a fine machine.

Let me give some thought about the features topic. The ripping topic seemed to be a source of misunderstanding and I was working on a master bath remodel and the bug hit me to take some pics of the rip operation to try and add some useful information. The slider topic as well as a number of other machines seems to come up fairly frequently. I was really trying to avoid making Martin the topic of the post. I am not one to be fond of topics that border on the sales pitch, border on the 'gloat', or flat out come out and announce a 'gloat'. I will be the first to admit that the Martin has a major coolness factor associated with it and for this reason, was hesitant to post the topic to begin with.

I would rather make it a series of topics on things to consider when buying a slider. Perhaps a topic on scoring units, outrigger table configurations (including a dicussion of length compensation), optional accessories, etc. may be more useful. This would enable others to post about their experiences and share features of their sliders as a true education on the variety of options available. This would make it less machine specific yet give potential purchasers of a slider as much information as possible before making a decision. When I first purchased the Felder combo, I was really pretty ignorant about the topic and the sales person I was dealing with really spoke a completely different language than I did.

This approach could be used for other machines as well. I would be interested in any feedback if there is interest in the above.
Thanks,
Steve

[Leigh Betsch]

Lou,
I would rather make it a series of topics on things to consider when buying a slider. Steve

I wrote a great big, articulate, highly knowledgeable, lots of insight, dead on response to your post but I lost it....
So let me say I agree.
(And the Martin is way cool)

[David DeCristoforo]

"...it takes a slider or a return trip to a jointer to get this quality of a glue ready cut..."

Still, I must say ????????????? With a good blade and correct use, there is no reason one cannot get a "quality...glue ready" cut on a "conventional" table saw. As I said, I have been doing this for over 35 years now and I've only had a slider for maybe the last five... I rarely use it for ripping....

[Steve Rowe]

I thought I would post a few pics of ripping on the slider using standard cabinet saw techniques. Be aware that the slider has some unique features that you must consider and take into account before you get in the middle of a cut.

Picture 1 shows a rip setup using the fence. I have pulled the sliding table to the rear to demonstrate that there is a potential for the offcut to contact the crosscut table fence. If the crosscut fence is not set far enough forward, this cut would result in serious difficulty in the middle of the cut. Normally, I have my crosscut sled at the far end of the slider and just push it forward. I always lock the sliding table when ripping using this method. With this slider, the table can be locked in a lot of different positions along the entire sliding length. Most sliders that I have seen, will lock in 2 (maybe 3) positions.

If it is an extremely long rip with large offcut, I loosen the crosscut fence locking handles and slide the fence to the left (picture 2) to allow clearance. I can get sufficient clearance using this method if the offcut is less than about 20". Otherwise, I remove the fence which is a very rare occurrence. (This is a good thing because this crosscut fence weighs over 75 lbs)

Picture 3 shows the completion of the rip cut. Pic 4 shows the width and this was very comfortable for me. Note that I put the fence to the low position to make it more comfortable. I could rip using this method down to about 11" comfortably. I wouldn't stand in front of the machine to make cuts less than 11" as it becomes awkward for me. The reason it becomes awkward on a long slider is the support leg for the table juts out in front of the machine. I suspect this would be less of a problem for machines with shorter sliders but, I will leave that conclusion to those who have actually done it.

For narrow cuts using the rip fence, I stand outboard of the sliding table. Picture 5 shows this setup with a shop made featherboard attached to the T slot in the slider. Picture 6 shows the completion of the rip using this method (Note - for safety, the saw was shut off with the cut completed to take this picture). If the cut gets very narrow, clearance for the push stick gets to be an issue because of the upper guard. The guard does swing out of the way if necessary.

If you rip using the above techniques on a slider, I can see how some would view the slider as less convenient or somewhat more awkward than a cabinet saw. I have adjusted my methods to compensate for this and have no issues with either method.

Hopes this helps answer some questiosn for those who may be considering a slider.
Steve

[Jim Becker]

"...glue-ready edge that you cannot get by pushing a board along the fence..."

OK.. you got me on that one. I've been doing that for over thirty years now and I never once realized that it was not possible!

Language problem, David...I meant you couldn't get the same quality of edge pushing by hand as you can with a board clamped to the wagon. Sorry about that! You certainly can get a glue-ready edge with a traditional fence as you point out.

(Same reply to you, Peter)

[Joe Calhoon]

Thanks for taking the time to post pictures of your setups Steve.

The slider is a versatile machine capable of a lot of different setups with high precision. It is not ideal for ripping solid wood if you do this on a daily basis. Used properly as some of Steve’s pictures show it is safer than a conventional bench saw for ripping though.

For a few years in our shop we used an old Martin T75 to straight line and rip to width. Even with the table and crosscut fence removed it was pretty awkward and slow. True you can get a good glue joint with the sliding table. We process timber with a SLR and S4S machine now and would never go back. It just depends on how much you need to rip. For limited use it can work. I always thought the Panhans power feeder that mounts to a slider rip fence would be useful if you had to rip a lot on the slider.

Our slider gets used for sheet goods, cross cutting thick material, sizing solid wood panels for doors and any specialty and miter cuts that need to be made. We hardly ever use the clamp at the other end of the wedge clamping shoe. I think hand pressure on that end is adequate for most operations. Same with the parallel fence it is only used for specialty sizing, especially long narrow cabinet parts that are mitered both edges. I have also learned to trust the squarness accuracy of the sliding table when doing miter cuts on both sides of larger more rectangular pieces.

We keep a Unisaw in the corner of the shop on wheels but have only brought it out twice in the last year. If we didn’t have the SLR it would be my preferred method of ripping though.

Joe

[David DeCristoforo]

"...I meant you couldn't get the same quality of edge pushing by hand as you can with a board clamped to the wagon..."

Thanx for clarifying. But I must still disagree. Sorry. Oh what the hey... it's Friday night. Nothing like a good disagreement on a Friday night! So here's what I think. I think the idea that a slider will produce a "better quality" edge than a conventional table saw is a myth (that's a polite way of saying that I think it's BS). If one joints a straight edge and then places that edge against a properly adjusted fence on a saw with a nice sharp blade and rips the board "by hand", the resulting edge will be just as "glue ready" and of the same "quality" as the same board ripped on a sliding table. I have glued up thousands (many, actually) of panels and I have to tell you that if I had to go through all of the fuss of setting up to rip off the sliding carriage every time, I would have had to close my business due to the time lost on each job. In addition, no one has ever had any need to critique my glue lines because they were not of high enough quality. This is just silly. Again, so sorry but I just don't buy it.

[Steve Rowe]

I have glued up thousands (many, actually) of panels and I have to tell you that if I had to go through all of the fuss of setting up to rip off the sliding carriage every time, I would have had to close my business due to the time lost on each job. In addition, no one has ever had any need to critique my glue lines because they were not of high enough quality. This is just silly. Again, so sorry but I just don't buy it.

I never intended this thread to be slider vs. cabinet saw. I intended it to be an informational thread on how to rip on a slider since this topic seemed to be a source of confusion based on other threads. If folks were interested in purchasing a slider, I believe this information is useful. If after digesting all the information available, they decide a slider is not for them (or vice versa), then this thread is a success.

Posts such as yours imply that this setup it is extrodinarily difficult and time consuming. If your argument is driven by having to close your business for time lost in gluing up many thousands of panels, think of all the time and income you have lost by not having a SLR saw. Frankly, I don't see why you are so adament that setting up to rip on a sliding carriage has "all the fuss of setting it up". Perhaps you could provide specifics on what you mean by "all the fuss" and show us why you believe this.

I don't find rip setup time consuming at all and have become quite proficient at it. IMO - The slider rip setup is a safer operation than on a cabinet saw - if that takes me a few seconds longer, so be it. I used a cabinet saw for 24 years before I got my first slider. If I still had my Unisaw, would I be using it for ripping? Perhaps, but I doubt it. I would probably have it set up for exclusive use with a dado head.

Steve

[Leigh Betsch]

Just another way to rip using a slider (and a bandsaw).

[David DeCristoforo]

"Perhaps you could provide specifics on what you mean by "all the fuss" and show us why you believe this."

Well, don't take this too seriously. By "all the fuss" I mean, simply, anything beyond setting the fence and pushing a board through. It doesn't get any simpler than that and I don't think it needs to be any more complicated than that. I tend to be "somewhat assertive" at times. As an old friend once said, "I may not always be right but I'm never uncertain". So, even though it may seem like I'm trying to convince you to work the way I work, I'm not. I just have a more "down to earth" approach to woodworking. I feel the same way about questions regarding accuracy needing to be measured in thousandths of an inch. I just don't see the need for it. But it is not my intention to imply that "my way" is any better than anyone else's. BTW, I love Leigh's bandsaw/slider setup!