Need help with cabinet making tools for a new person.

[Karl Card]

I still consider myself a newbie to ww and in my collection of shop tools i have a ryobi bt3100 table saw, 16 inch drill press, ms-r carba tec router table, jet lathe, 14 inch bandsaw, 12 inch miter slider saw and an 8 inch jointer. Here is the delimna - I am getting ready to upgrade and want the best setup I can get for making kitchen cabinets. I will not be doing this for a living I just want to make my own for my house. I will have about 2K to at the tops 2500 to upgrade with. My thought was to upgrade the table saw to a new grizzly 1023 or buy a used jet or delta cabinet saw. The nest thing I am still unsure of is a open ended drum sander or closed or one at all. But that is why i am asking for opinions.. I also am open to any hand tools I may really need for this also. Even after I make the cabinets I will still be doing alot of wood work to this house such as full wall entertainment center for living room and different things for dining room and also diming room table.

thanks

[Dan Forman]

I haven't done any major projects like this, but you might have better luck if you rename your thread something like "best tool list for kitchen cabinets" or something similar. I say this because a lot of us don't spend the time to look at a thread that may not interest us - I often skip threads without clear, descriptive titles.

That said, I would think the table saw upgrade would be a good thing. I like a cabinet saw, but many have used a contractor saw to build cabinets and furniture, so it's not really necessary. You will also need either a large capacity table saw sled, which you can make yourself, or a sliding table such as the Jessem Master slide 7500.

A lot of people like the drum sanders for doing panels, but if you will be using plywood panels for cabinet doors and end panels, you could probably work faster and a lot cheaper with a couple of good handplanes, which would eliminate a lot of sanding. I like the low angle series from Lee Valley. A low angle block plane would be essential. Then you will need something to sharpen the blades with, many options here. See the Neander forum for suggestions. A few card scrapers wouldn't hurt, nor would one of those profiled sanding block sets (concave and convex) to clean up the routed surfaces.

If you want to make solid wood panels, then some good clamping cauls will make life easier when it comes time to flatten the panels. This is the task that some folks like their drum sanders for. If you clamp carefully, you can minimize the sanding required. Speaking of clamps, you will need a bunch of them.

You might want some sort of pocket hole jig, which will let you work a lot faster and save on the use of clamps. Lots of folks use these for face frames, and some for the boxes.

There are many options for drawer construction, some use pocket holes, some dovetails, others various types of interlocking joinery done on a router table or tablesaw. If you chooses dovetails, you might want a jig for that.

A big 3 horse router in your table might be a worthwhile upgrade. a smaller one will still do the job, but not as fast - will need more passes for each stick. You could leave the big boy in the table, and use the smaller one for hand held tasks.

You don't mention dust collection, which I consider to be very important. Many options here.

A good book on building kitchen cabinets should save a lot of time, headaches, and materials - as well as giving you some insight as to what tools you might need to add to your arsenal.

Good luck with your project.

Dan

[Karl Card]

Thanks Dan. I think I will start looking for the "perfect book"..lol

[Glen Butler]

Karl,

Ok you have a decent tool list to start with and $2500 we can work with, but you need to think used. You'll definitely need a bigger saw with a 52" fence system and an ample outfeed table, so you can safely work with sheet goods. The Grizzley 1023SLX is on sale right nor for $895. I suggest a tenryu mel-pro blade ($110) for cutting your melamine. They work as advertised you just have to find the sweet spot on blade height.

Do you plan to make your own doors? You can get them made for ~$30 each in my neck of the woods. But if you want to do it yourself, at a minimum get a small power feed ($525) for your router table (I question whether your table has the room to mount it) and have a 3HP router ($320). You could build a nice heavy fouter table using 1 1/4" MDF ($65) and you'll probably have to take multiple passes on your profiling. You'll benefit greatly from a bench top planer with a slow feed speed (ridgid 4330 $369). Leave your material a 1/16" thick and take them to a local mill and have them sanded on their wide belt sander. Much more cost effective than buying a drum sander which after you add up all the small stuff you wont be able to afford.

Here is the small stuff you just don't think about til you are in over your head. Assuming you are doing euro style, you will need: an old clothes iron for edge banding, bosch colt to trim the banding, laminate trim bit, style and rail profile, raised panel profile, door edge profile, toggle clamps for jigs, a couple pair of 36" bar clamps

And I am tired of writing now so lets see what you have to say first.

[Van Huskey]

Tell us more about the construction. If you are doing you own doors, a 3+hp router and a good cabinet bit set. To stay within budget and get excellent results a tracksaw might be a better option than a TS depending on the type of cabs and doors you plan to build.

[Karl Card]

ahh i did forget to mention i have a ridgid 4330. it is in the shop getting a new motor (underwarranty). My router table is pretty heavy. It has a solid grround cast with the alumin slider. I do plan on making my doors. one for the experience and 2 for bragging rights when company comes over.

[Glen Butler]

Can you mount a power feed to it? This will be important to get nice even shaping. And with as much a you have to do, worth the investment for time, fatigue, quality, and safety reasons.

[William M Johnson]

I am at the tail end of a complete redo of all cabinets in my house. Just finished the master bath vanities, each one over 6" long. I have a PM66 with Excalibur slider, but I no longer use it for breaking down sheetgoods.

I use the EZ Smart Track saw system . Cleaner cut, safer and I can break down 3/4" by my self with no trama. Tearout is virtually eliminated.

You will still need your table saw for dados and making rails and stiles (although with a " the EZ Smart could be used for the rails and stiles.

I also use every part of the big Kreg Set ( I don't remember the model # but it is ab out $140)

Another great product(s) for making cabinets is the Woodpecker tools T Square ruler, again I don't know the model # but it is the 24". It is great in combination with the EZ Smart system. Their 12" square is excellent as well.

For me the Woodpecker squares and the EZ Smart are key to building cabinets.

My $0.02

Bill

[Karl Card]

I am looking for so many things at once it is almost mind boggling but fun at the same time.

I am seriously looking at the G1023SLX table saw from grizzly.
the router table i have is made by carba tec but looks identical to the grizzly G0528. I do not know whether this type of router table can take a feeder or not due to never dealing with a feeder. The table itself is good for up to 5 hp router and am thinking of going with a PC 3 1/4 hp router.
I do realize I will need clamps out the arse... and then some more..
In this situation I am assuming it would be best to get a good set of say whiteside router cabinet sets.?

[Glen Butler]

I use a festool TS when I have special angles, and tear out is terrible. Am I using the wrong blade? Track saws are too time consuming. You have to set up every cut. A table saw you just set once and cut away. I am a bigger guy though and handle sheet goods everyday so I am accustomed to it. I always get a chuckle watching new employees handle sheet goods.

[Karl Card]

ahhh one other thing is that I am going to be using sassafras to make these cabinets with so if anyone has any do/dont's on this particular wood that would also be appreciated. I think I am going out on monday to look for a book to get started with.

[Van Huskey]

I am looking for so many things at once it is almost mind boggling but fun at the same time.

I am seriously looking at the G1023SLX table saw from grizzly.
the router table i have is made by carba tec but looks identical to the grizzly G0528. I do not know whether this type of router table can take a feeder or not due to never dealing with a feeder. The table itself is good for up to 5 hp router and am thinking of going with a PC 3 1/4 hp router.
I do realize I will need clamps out the arse... and then some more..
In this situation I am assuming it would be best to get a good set of say whiteside router cabinet sets.?

The PC 7518 is THE router.

What are the dimensions of the router table? How much space is behind the fence.

As others have mentioned also a track saw can make breaking down the panels much easier, safer and more accurate than the 1023.

Do you plan to dovetail the drawers?

Depending on what other tools you have you are beating the poop out of 2.5k!

Whiteside or Freud bits.

Remember a good set of 4 parallel clamps for panel glue up are getting close to $200.

Do you have a planer?

If I was more or less starting from scratch I would expect to spend well over your budget for tools and machines.

[Van Huskey]

I use a festool TS when I have special angles, and tear out is terrible. Am I using the wrong blade? Track saws are too time consuming. You have to set up every cut. A table saw you just set once and cut away. I am a bigger guy though and handle sheet goods everyday so I am accustomed to it. I always get a chuckle watching new employees handle sheet goods.


Which blade are you using? Ant-splinter in good shape?

I agree what what you are saying every word BUT from someone just moving up from a BT3K don't you think it is a litlle much to expect them to break panels down without lots of waste?

Actually, in the end I am more concerned with the budget than anything else.

[Karl Card]

Van, for the most part I am using the 2500 to get just the main large pieces of equipment. I will be adding the less expensive items each week or as I can add them. I pretty much am asking for opinions because I do not want redundance. Just like with a table saw id rather wait and buy a table saw that was just a little more than to settle for less now and be sorry for it.

Yes I do have a planer, if not I would have jumped all over the dewalt for sale in smc classifieds....

I started this project by buying a fixer upper house and told the wife with even buying the tools that I would still come out ahead by building them than buying them. 1 is id still have the tools when done, 2 the experience id gain by building them and 3 by people visitng and see what I did might just land me some more jobs..

Of course with my love for wood Id just as soon make each cabinet out of a different kind of wood.. wife says " absolutely no way" so that ideal got thrown out real quick..lol

[Dave Sharpe]

I rebuilt my kitchen including all new cabinets and doors with some fairly basic tools. Tablesaw for cutting all the plywood for cabinet boxes and Kreg pocket hole system for joining the box parts themselves. I chose face frames for my cabinets and used Maple for this. Cut all of the parts on the tablesaw and sanded with a ROS, then joined them together using pocket holes. Mounted the face frames to the cabinet boxes again using pocket holes (I seem to like pocket holes, so I reccomend a good Kreg pocket hole system). I made doors on my router table using a simple 2HP router and a cabinet door raised panel bit set. No power feeder or any of that fancy stuff for a total of only 15 doors.

I did get a jig for drilling out hinge pockets and shelf holes, as well as jigs for mounting drawer slides. I finsihed them all using an inexpensive HVLP gun from Rockler.

Most of the tools are pretty basic - tablesaw, router and table, planer, ROS, HVLP gun. I saw no need to spend a bunch of money on new specialized tools for this task, as I had no intention of going into business as a cabinetmaker.

As far as books go, one of the best I found was by Jim Tolpin - He has several good books on cabinet building.

Dave

[Van Huskey]

Of course with my love for wood Id just as soon make each cabinet out of a different kind of wood.. wife says " absolutely no way" so that ideal got thrown out real quick..lol


I really think first you need to decide many of the cabinet particulars then decide on a tool list , since you aren't looking you set up a cabinet shop but buy tools to build a specific set.

Here is an two ideas for different wood doors, on is similar to a recent trend and the other I haven't seen used. First, build the uppers and lowers from different wood and or finishes, then trim the tops with a built up having both, very cool if the woods contrast. Second, is based on my wifes idea whch I have not built yet. Build the faces, rails and stiles out of a wood with little grain and finish in a medum neutral finish, then make the panels interchangeable with a rabbet instead of a slot. I plan for her to build simple Shaker doors then veneer up sets of flat panels using different exotics, then we can change them out on a whim. She calls them seasonal doors. Just a thought but the latter is somewhat avant-garde so it may not fit with your wife's aesthetics. We may also incorporate some stark colors as well, a Tamo ash "candy appled" in a bright color would be stunning. The first set she wants s Zebrano. I am going to teach her to veneer so she can do her own, but alas I have a long list of "order" from her so who knows when I will get around to building them.

[Glen Butler]

Which blade are you using? Ant-splinter in good shape?

I agree what what you are saying every word BUT from someone just moving up from a BT3K don't you think it is a litlle much to expect them to break panels down without lots of waste?

Actually, in the end I am more concerned with the budget than anything else.

I really don't know what blade is in there. I just don't use it often enough. It might be the one that came with it.:D What blade do you recommend?

Why would they get more or less waste using a track saw vs. table saw? Kerf thickness?:D

Isn't he going to spend about as much for the track saw system as he would for the grizz? It is on sale right now.

[Roger Bullock]

Random orbital sander with a complete supply of all grits of sandpaper. Nothing is more frustrating than reaching for sandpaper and not having the right grit or enough supply on hand to do a proper job. Also you might consider a HVLP spray system. If you have the room, make a dedicated finish area closed off from the rest of your shop.

[Karl Card]

Well at least at this point I know that I need to go book looking now to see what type of joinery and what type of doors and how I want the doors attached to the face.

[Mark Bosse]

Spend only what you need for one project. Shoe-string it as long as you can. Your eye for deals will get better over time.

[Stephen Edwards]

Depending on what kind of doors you're going to build, I don't think that you need much more than you already have to build cabinets for your home. A nice cabinet saw would surely be nice. If you're going to build raised panel doors, the appropriate bits would be needed. Perhaps a second router would be good to have, too.

Drum sander is nice but not necessary. ROS is almost necessary, especially if you're going the power tool route, and it sounds as if you are.

You have clamps?

Decide what kind of cabinets you want to build and that will determine what other tools you need. Sounds to me like you're off to a good start, already.

[johnny means]

I would go for the cabinet saw and (god, I hate to admit it) a Festool sanding package set-up. These are the two machines that will probably touch every single piece of wood in your project.

[Aaron Hastings]

On a budget?


1. Table saw or Guided Circular saw. As long as you can make accurate/repeatable cuts.
2. Router. If you are making paneled doors, you need a bigger router (3 hp), bits ($) and table. A nice push-stick. Otherwise, buy pre-fab doors/drawers
3. Drill
4. Pocket hole jig and clamp
5. A dead accurate square and straightedge
6. ROS
7. Clamps and Cauls

It may not be the most efficient work you'll ever do. But you can't tell me one can't make some damn nice cabinetry with these tools. The key is to know your tools and know your limitations with those tools. Doing frameless might be a stretch with the bare minimum, however.

You need to work with square lumbar. For me, a jointer and planer is a prerequisite for quality woodworking.

[Mike Heidrick]

On a budget?


1. Table saw or Guided Circular saw. As long as you can make accurate/repeatable cuts.
2. Router. If you are making paneled doors, you need a bigger router (3 hp), bits ($) and table. A nice push-stick. Otherwise, buy pre-fab doors/drawers
3. Drill
4. Pocket hole jig and clamp
5. A dead accurate square and straightedge
6. ROS
7. Clamps and Cauls

It may not be the most efficient work you'll ever do. But you can't tell me one can't make some damn nice cabinetry with these tools. The key is to know your tools and know your limitations with those tools. Doing frameless might be a stretch with the bare minimum, however.

You need to work with square lumbar. For me, a jointer and planer is a prerequisite for quality woodworking.

I agree with Aaron. I would add some small stuff to the list:

8. A decent 2nd router for above table use and put that 3hp in a table permanently or find a shaper. A feeder is great too.
9. I like dovetailed boxes so add a dovetail jig
10. I would upgrade to a great tablesaw blade and SCMS blade and zero clearence inserts for the saws
11. I would factor in a HVLP or good spray finish system.
12. Research a decent system to install euro hinges and glides and hardware

[Dan Forman]

Karl --- Looks like some good advice is coming in. If you like the traditional look, Building Traditional Kitchen Cabinets by Jim Tolpin is a good book. The book topic comes up here frequently, and there are several "usual suspects" that are mentioned as favorites.

In my earlier post, I was going (but forgot) to mention a track saw system, or just a circular saw with your shop made guide for breaking up sheets of ply into manageable sizes. Lots of us don't like to work with full sheets on a table saw, though if you have lots of room, and can build good support tables, it can be done.

If you're going to use sassafrases, that's going to be a great smelling shop for a while.

Dan

[Ole Anderson]

I presume with the tools you have a good dust collector is in the mix? Making a set of cabinets will generate bags of sawdust.

If you look on the Bill Pentz site and go to Wood Toxicity Table, you will see that Sassafas is nasty wood to deal with so a good dust management program is a must.

http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/WoodToxicityTable.cfm

[Karl Card]

Dave there are certain things that I can do and certain things i hate to do but I absolutely love tools. Whether they are hand tools or electric. I donot have alot of money though and so I kinda look at opinions from others and it opens my eyes to different ideals and things. Right now I really dont see a feeder in my near future even though I think it would be neat. I do however see a new grizzly g1023 table saw with a 7 foot rails. I am also considering a drum sander but really scared of open ended ones and so I am looking at those real hard. I am making alot of cutting boards for sale and for gifts and I think a drum sander would really speed the process of cutting boards. I also have 4 cherry crotches that I am waiting for to dry that I will want to run thru a sander and make living room table sets out of. I do have some pocket joinery kits and honestly cant wait to use them. I have played with it just to get a feel of it and I think I will like using them. But I have to say that I have learnt something really good from most everyone who has posted there opinion so that is just great..