Kreg Klamp Table

[Matt Meiser]

I took the day off today, other than calling in for a noon-time conference call, and got a good start on my Kreg Klamp table. Originally I planned to just make a top I could set on my bench or work table, but then I saw Joseph Shields's Mike Heidrick's versions (http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1017441). I just set it on my ladder for now to try the angle and I like this way. I'm thinking of welding up a steel tube stand to hold it like this--something like the stand the Kreg face framing table (http://kregtool.com/products/phm/product.php?PRODUCT_ID=7) uses. If I do, I'll make it fold completely vertical for easier storage. And put wheels on it. The space on the side is for a future track, should I decide I want one.

I just cut up some stock and tried one faceframe on it and they are the flatest, easiest to clamp joints I've ever done. Got to try out the new Foreman too.

[roman fedyk]

So basically you have a 3/4 plywood base, then a 3/4" melamine top for the table? Looks very nice. Appears to be very solid and I imagine quite heavy. Nice job.

[Matt Meiser]

Yes, exactly. And yes--VERY heavy. Partly because its pretty big about 36x52.

[jim sauterer]

nice set up matt.am i being to bold to ask how much you have in it.great size and sturdy.

[Matt Meiser]

Not cheap. The main kit was $149 which was 2 clamps, 2 rails, the black spacers, and some hardware. Another ~$30-35 each for 2 more clamps. $22 for 1/2 an additional rail which I split with a friend. Plus $50 in sheet goods.

[James Biddle]

Wow Matt, that turned out really nice. Dave and I are thinking about making one of those out of 8020. What's the purpose of the plastic spacers as opposed to clamping the stock directly to the extrusion? Did it come with dimensions for the extrusions so I can see if 8020 makes a profile that accepts the Kreg clamps.

[bruce buren]

the black plastic spacers center the clamp over the joint. They are adjustable to the width of your wood

[Matt Meiser]

Yes, the clamps are 3" I believe and the spacers move the stock out from the rails by various amounts so they are centered on the clamp. And they've got a piece that drops into the rail to keep them square.

The extrusions are 2-1/4 wide by a little less than 3/4" thick, so I don't think 8020 will have something exact. You could probably use 8020 extrusions with the Kreg clamps and make your own spacer blocks. I'm just not sure its worth it because Kreg thought this out pretty well.

[Mike Heidrick]

Sure looks good Matt.

I have found having the track flush with the top and using the blocks is flexable as it allows your work piece to extend over the edge of the table. This is for times when the face frame parts are not at the edges of the face frame.

Any issues using the hi-flow adapter on the DB55? I forgot to talk to you about that. I had to put hi-flow adapters all through all the way to the Foreman.

[Matt Meiser]

Now that my planer is done I started building the stand. Inspired by how Mike has his mounted, but mine will be mobile and the board will fold vertical for easy storage. I got the uprights welded up tonight and fabricated mounts for the full-lock casters I bought.

I've got the basic idea in my head but I'm working out the details as I go.

While I was at the local Do-It-Best buying a can of paint for the planer I noticed they have a blue that's almost a dead match for Kreg blue so its going to basically look like Kreg provided it.

[Greg Hines, MD]

I took the day off today, other than calling in for a noon-time conference call, and got a good start on my Kreg Klamp table. Originally I planned to just make a top I could set on my bench or work table, but then I saw Joseph Shields's Mike Heidrick's versions (http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=1017441). I just set it on my ladder for now to try the angle and I like this way. I'm thinking of welding up a steel tube stand to hold it like this--something like the stand the Kreg face framing table (http://kregtool.com/products/phm/product.php?PRODUCT_ID=7) uses. If I do, I'll make it fold completely vertical for easier storage. And put wheels on it. The space on the side is for a future track, should I decide I want one.

I just cut up some stock and tried one faceframe on it and they are the flatest, easiest to clamp joints I've ever done. Got to try out the new Foreman too.


Very nice. I am going to build one of those one day. And I thought I was the only one with a Little Giant Ladder...

Doc

[Matt Meiser]

The ladder works well for me. Enough to get on the roof of the house or shop if I needed to. Reaches the 12' ceiling in the shop and 10' ceiling in the garage. But also works in the house if needed.

[Anthony Anderson]

Looking forward to the next update Matt. Thank you for posting the progress of your Kreg Table.

Which Kreg Foreman do you have?

Bill

[Matt Meiser]

Well, in that case...this morning's progress. I was supposed to go up to Ann Arbor until early afternoon but we ended up with several inches of snow with a lot of wind yesterday making the back roads around me treacherous so I called that off. Probably would have been OK once I made it to the freeway, but that's 9 miles.

The Foreman is the manual air-powered model.

I got the cross piece welded in and started on the pivot. The pivots are just a couple 7/16 bolts with locknuts that I had laying around. I realized I had to round over the top corners which was easy with the plasma and a small template. A quick touchup with a grinder and a flap wheel makes it finger-safe. I need to cut and weld a couple pieces of angle between the pivoting arms to help keep the table from sagging/warping. Then I just need to figure out some arms at the bottom to lock it in the working position before I can paint it.

[Jack Wilson]

Matt, thanks for the inspiration. I have been eyeing the Kreg table for a little while, but didn't want to spend the money. Now I see that there is a better way. Yours looks like it's coming along great, Kreg seems to indicate that their top is "solid melamine", does that make sense, or am I reading it wrong? Anyway, keep up the great work and the progress reports.

[Mike Heidrick]

Looking great matt. When it is not in use clamp a white board to it for drawing out ideas and notes.

[Sam Layton]

Your clamp rack is really looking good Matt. Your welding talents are really paying off.

Great job, Sam

[Matt Meiser]

Mike I was already thinking the melamine might work as-is for a whiteboard!

[Tom Godley]

I want to put this on my future projects list - at least the table. And, thanks for listing the parts!

You have spoken previously about welding equipment -- would you mind commenting on what you used on this project.

I have not welded in 25 years. I bought a Lincoln 220v wire feed welder a couple of years ago -- and have never used it. From what I understand I really need the gas setup for it. But others have said a small arc welder is the way to go ??

I have a metal fabrication business not that far from me -- so all the steel is available to --- but with all the difference sizes -- I would not know what to even get ??


Any guidance would be great - Thanks

[Anthony Anderson]

Looking good Matt! I like the Whiteboard idea. You guys come up with some great ideas.

I am going to try to make a smaller version of your table. I don't have quite the space that you have, so the tilting/folding design is going to work well for me.

Thanks again, Bill

[Anthony Anderson]

Tom, your 220v mig with gas is the way to go. Arc is so slow, messy (chipping slag, and constantly cleaning welds) and unless you are welding heavy steel (1/2" and up) where you need to burn in root passes and multi layered welds, you don't need an arc welder. Hope that helps.

Matt, I have two more questions for you.

1. Did you ever figure out what to do regarding dust collection, on the Kreg Foreman. I saw your other post regarding this.

2. I also found your post asking about a stock feeder. Did you decide on/get one?

Thanks, Bill

[Tony Shea]

Good god Matt, you always have some sort of significant shop project going on. If only one day I could end up with a shop like yours I would die a happy man. Keep up the good work and inspiration for others. BTW, is W.W. your job or hobby?

[Matt Meiser]

You have spoken previously about welding equipment -- would you mind commenting on what you used on this project.

I have not welded in 25 years. I bought a Lincoln 220v wire feed welder a couple of years ago -- and have never used it. From what I understand I really need the gas setup for it. But others have said a small arc welder is the way to go ??

I've got a 220 mig with gas--a Hobart Handler 180. Definitely the way to go for an amateur/beginner like me. I've had really good success with it as thin as 16ga. I'm sure thinner would work too, but I just haven't had a need so I haven't tried it yet



Matt, I have two more questions for you.

1. Did you ever figure out what to do regarding dust collection, on the Kreg Foreman. I saw your other post regarding this.

2. I also found your post asking about a stock feeder. Did you decide on/get one?

1. Haven't yet. A friend gave me a metal cabinet that's going to work nicely for it and I might add a chute inside of that.

2. No I haven't, at least yet. The Grizzly baby feeder went off sale which is what I was looking at. I'd like to and if I found a good deal I might.


Good god Matt, you always have some sort of significant shop project going on. If only one day I could end up with a shop like yours I would die a happy man. Keep up the good work and inspiration for others. BTW, is W.W. your job or hobby?

Yep, always something going on. Right now I've got a lot of projects that were either on hold or dreamed up while working on the kitchen. Not too much woodworking either--needed a bit of a break! Its a hobby--my day job is software.

[Van Huskey]

I was going to build the Shopnotes (106) version now I am torn...

[Paul Steiner]

Matt you are always building things that I end up adding to my "to build" list. Thanks for the inspiration. Could you elaborate on the kit you bought for $149? There is not a rockler store in my area and I checked the woodcraft and rockler sites, the have the table only. Not the kit. Thanks!

[Matt Meiser]

Paul, I couldn't find anyone selling the kit I bought anywhere but at The Woodworking Show. Bad Dog Tools runs the Kreg booth at those shows according to my receipt but they don't show Kreg stuff on their site.

The kit contained
Long rails (2)
Bench Klamps (2)
Klamp plate that goes in your bench (1)
Alignment blocks (1 set)
Bag of nuts and bolts

I added 2 more of the Bench Klamps

[Mike Heidrick]

For those not going to the show, You can easily assemble the parts straight from amazon. The nuts and bolts can be bought at any hardware retailer. Amazon has good prices on the clamps.

[Matt Meiser]

I actually didn't even use the bolts they included because they had a pan head and I wanted mine countersunk. Plus the ones they include assume the base is 1" material like the Kreg table. A 1-1/4" 1/4-20 machine screw was perfect.

[Matt Meiser]

Other than welding some already-cut diagonal braces between the cross-brace and uprights, its basically done. Then its time for Kreg-blue paint. Holy cow I forgot how heavy the top is! I could barely get it on there myself.

I worked out the braces to hold the top out which can be seen in the closeup. Basically just a piece of angle to catch the arm. If it proves to be an issue I'll drill a hole and stick a pin through. With the top on (i.e. a lot of weight) its very sturdy and not at all prone to tipping. While the casters could change the dynamics slightly I think they'll be fine since they are right out at the corners.

[Anthony Anderson]

Looking good Matt! You are getting that finished very quickly. I need to look through the thread and find the measurements again. I have been thinking (I know:D), about trying to incorporate the table into the extension table of my tablesaw. I just don't have room for the size of table you made, although it would be nice. I have been looking at pricing of the tracks and clamps, maybe I can get started in the next week.

Thanks for the updates.

Bill

[Matt Meiser]

I think its going slow. I'd planned to completely finish it paint and all by tonight but for the past several weeks I keep finding reasons not to go out to the shop. The heat is on out there though (literally, the furnace) so it doesn't get too cold to paint so I need to wrap it up in the next evening or two.

[Matt Meiser]

Almost there.

When I build something like this, my typical finish is hardware-store-brand spray paint (usually my local Do-It-Best.) They happen to have this blue which is very, very close to the blue on my Foreman. I've been using a self-etching primer from Duplicolor lately that O'Reily Auto Parts carries. Both dry really fast. I literally finished this start-finish in 4 hours.

Check out the floor in my finish booth! Should have ran the fan more but it really messes with the spray pattern from a rattle can.

[Anthony Anderson]

Matt, You do nice work. Very professional. I also use that Duplicolor Self Etching Primer, and have had very good results. Sherwin Williams also makes an automotive self etching primer in a spray can, and also works well.

When is final assembly? Again, Thank you for sharing this project. I am already looking at the track and clamps. I'm trying to decide, if it would be better to buy a track kit, if it is available. I think you mentioned that kit is only available at the WWing shows. I don't need the table, as I am thinking to incorporate this into my tablesaw outfeed table. So maybe, buying the tracks and clamps will be the way to go. What do you think?

Thanks, Bill

[Matt Meiser]

Sherwin Williams owns Duplicolor, so its probably the same stuff. I should check if the Sherwin Williams auto paint store near me sells it for less than O'Reily.

I'll probably assemble it tomorrow if I get time.

I couldn't find anyone selling the kit with a Google search so I'd just buy the components.

[Mike Heidrick]

Anyone find a deal on some Kreg track let us know. I could use about 4 more pieces. It used to be $29 and now is $40 and above most places. I should have stocked up.

[Matt Meiser]

Hartville has 15% off all regular price items right now. Still >$37 though.

[Anthony Anderson]

I was looking yesterday, and it was $45 locally. There should be some spring season specials anytime. Hopefully.

[Eric DeSilva]

Matt-

I was intrigued by your project. The only issue I see is you can only clamp get 3 of the 4 corners, but that is pretty good. I clicked on the link you had for the big Kreg table and the arrangement they have--with the sliding bar and pneumatic hold downs--seems pretty slick, but mondo spendy. But that--and your metalwork--started me thinking...

What about making a rectangular frame from 1"--fairly thick wall--square steel stock. Weld a easel-like stand to the sides only. Weld some tabs to the sides so you can attach a piece of ply to fill in the center--maybe even run some angle across the bottom for support underneath. Then do what they do with the Kreg table--build a bar that hooks to the underside of the top/bottom rail, slides back and forth, and has clamps to secure the frame corners. You could even make multiples of the rail if you have a complicated face frame. While the Kreg pneumatic clamps are nice, I'm not sure a threaded rod with a non-marring tip wouldn't do the trick nicely (and much more economically).

If you build it out of 1" square stock, it should be cheap, strong, and flexible. I need another project like a need a hole in my head, but I may have to put this on the list. As a welder and user of the Kreg table, see any issues?

BTW, if you do a lot with tube stock, I highly recommend the Evolution Rage cold cut carbide saws (Sears sells 'em). I've got a 7.5" chopsaw that was less than $100 (I think--it is big enough for most angle/tube stock that I deal with) and it works like a dream--faster, cleaner and without heat build-up.

[Matt Meiser]

Yeah, with this type of table you have to rotate the work to to get the other corner. The only concern I'd have with building a bridge type system like they have is that it has to have absolutely no flex once the clamps are tight. If it does the joint won't come out flush.

I've got one of the 4x6 bandsaws I use to cut all my stock.

I went out before work this morning and finished assembly. Just ran out to get some photos of the finished product.

[Lewis Cobb]

Matt-

I was intrigued by your project. The only issue I see is you can only clamp get 3 of the 4 corners, but that is pretty good. I clicked on the link you had for the big Kreg table and the arrangement they have--with the sliding bar and pneumatic hold downs--seems pretty slick, but mondo spendy. But that--and your metalwork--started me thinking...

What about making a rectangular frame from 1"--fairly thick wall--square steel stock. Weld a easel-like stand to the sides only. Weld some tabs to the sides so you can attach a piece of ply to fill in the center--maybe even run some angle across the bottom for support underneath. Then do what they do with the Kreg table--build a bar that hooks to the underside of the top/bottom rail, slides back and forth, and has clamps to secure the frame corners. You could even make multiples of the rail if you have a complicated face frame. While the Kreg pneumatic clamps are nice, I'm not sure a threaded rod with a non-marring tip wouldn't do the trick nicely (and much more economically).

If you build it out of 1" square stock, it should be cheap, strong, and flexible. I need another project like a need a hole in my head, but I may have to put this on the list. As a welder and user of the Kreg table, see any issues?

BTW, if you do a lot with tube stock, I highly recommend the Evolution Rage cold cut carbide saws (Sears sells 'em). I've got a 7.5" chopsaw that was less than $100 (I think--it is big enough for most angle/tube stock that I deal with) and it works like a dream--faster, cleaner and without heat build-up.

Sorry to hijack the thread here but Eric - this saw sounds like the holy grail for garage fab-work. Ive been avoiding the abrasive chop saws for cutting steel due to the inaccuracy of them. I've been hoofing it off to my buddy's work place where they have a mega-buck bandsaw. That process is wearing thin though - on him as well as me :D.

How long do the blades last and are they spendy?

Thanks!
Lewis

[Eric DeSilva]

this saw sounds like the holy grail for garage fab-work.

Sears carries them--they are listing the Rage4 for $159.99, although I think I got mine on sale. I did buy a second, steel-specific blade for mine (I think they run about $60 for the 7.25"), but I've never had to put it on, and I've done several hundred cuts in 1/8" wall 2" square stock and the like using the normal, non-steel specific blade. It is *loud*. But the cuts are clean, cold and the blade doesn't deflect like the abrasive saws. I've heard that people used to abrasive saws tend to wear the blades out faster because of how they cut, but I don't seem to have those bad habits. They are carbide, so they can be resharpened...

[Lewis Cobb]

Sears carries them--they are listing the Rage4 for $159.99, although I think I got mine on sale. I did buy a second, steel-specific blade for mine (I think they run about $60 for the 7.25"), but I've never had to put it on, and I've done several hundred cuts in 1/8" wall 2" square stock and the like using the normal, non-steel specific blade. It is *loud*. But the cuts are clean, cold and the blade doesn't deflect like the abrasive saws. I've heard that people used to abrasive saws tend to wear the blades out faster because of how they cut, but I don't seem to have those bad habits. They are carbide, so they can be resharpened...

SWEET ! I'm off to the local Sears tonight to have a look. Thanks for the tip.

[Matt Meiser]

Here's a link to what Eric is talking about: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00982729000P?keyword=evolution+rage+ chop+saw

Eric, how bad is the mess with those? I had an abrasive saw at one time. The mess led me to get rid of it. That was a hot mess too. One other advantage I see to the bandsaw is odd cuts. For example, when I join 2 pieces of angle I cut off part of one of the two pieces and do what's roughly equivalent to a half-lap joint. Those are easy on the band saw. But that does take a lot less space than the bandsaw which would be nice too.

[Eric DeSilva]

It is somewhat messy, but because they are little chunks of steel, not that abrasive saw particulate dust kind of stuff, I find it less noxious and easier to clean up. I just sweep the area with a magnet. The chunks aren't hot either.

I've done the kind of cuts you are talking about, I think, but only partway with the Rage, then its back to the hacksaw. But, most of what I cut is though--rod, angle. For everything else I can always fire up the plasma cutter...

The only thing that really tees me off about the Rage is that the miter fence is terrible--stamped steel just like the abrasive saws. I think I had to take a rat tail file to my slot to extend it to reach a real 45*. But considering the alternatives, I still love the darn thing.

[Paul Steiner]

Anyone find a deal on some Kreg track let us know. I could use about 4 more pieces. It used to be $29 and now is $40 and above most places. I should have stocked up.

How does the Rockler "multi-track" compare to the Kreg klamp track? I have seen people use T track but obviously it is not as robust. But I was looking through my Rockler catalog and saw the multi track anyone tried it or T-track? It is a little cheaper than the kreg track.

[Mike Heidrick]

The Kreg Track gets bolted down ever 2" or 4" or so (can't remember which). Two 1/4" bolts on each side of the track. Really resists pull out like I have had with T-Track. I have not checked out the Rockler track.

[Matt Meiser]

then its back to the hacksaw

My second-most serious injury working in a shop was the result of me cutting a piece of steel with a hacksaw. I was cutting a piece of angle at a 45, which left a knife-edge on the angle. As I made the last push with the hacksaw I went through, my hand went forward and my finger hit that edge right between the nail and the first knuckle. The doctor didn't notice that I'd cut deep enough to sever the tendon that pulls the tip of the finger straight when I went to the ER and I ended up at a plastic surgeon weeks later. I had to splint my finger non-stop for several months to let it grow back together. Even when I had to change the tape on the splint, I had to hold the tip in the finger straight because any flex would tear it back apart. I don't understand how it knew to grow back together but it did and I regained full function again. That was actually what led me to buy the abrasive cutoff saw.

I'm seriously thinking about one of those rage saws. That cut I'm talking about is the only one I don't think I can do that I do with any regularity and there's no reason I couldn't complete it with a hacksaw or the plasma. LOML gave me $200 to use towards a tool for our anniversary yesterday. I think the 9th is steel cutting power tools?

Edit: Eric--you said you cut 2" tube with yours? Do you have to rotate it or doe it go right through? They list the max capacity as 1-3/4x1-3/4.

[Eric DeSilva]

Eric--you said you cut 2" tube with yours? Do you have to rotate it or doe it go right through? They list the max capacity as 1-3/4x1-3/4.

That is strange--its a 7.25" blade with a relatively small arbor. I cut--straight through, no rotation--2"x2" square steel stock all the time. 2" diameter tubing should be no problem at all. They do also have a larger one if you routinely cut stuff over 2"; think that one has a 14" blade like the abrasive chop saws. It's also about double the price or more.

I think someone on the creek uses the SCMS version of the rage as well. Found it--Scott Rollins said:

"I bought one for the fab shop at work. They love it. We have the 10" slider (rage something). It has reduced our fab time in half. We were using a milwaukee metal cutting circ saw, horizontal bandsaw, and vertical bandsaw. I have only been buying blades for the evolution saw since we got it. the other tools are only used occasionally now. The blade life is somewhat short..maybe 150-200 cuts in mild steel tubing (2" w 1/4" wall) and flat bar stock. We found a local shop to resharp for $15 a blade and they cut better after re-shapening than new. Good square cuts in all types of shapes."

[Eric DeSilva]

My second-most serious injury working in a shop was the result of me cutting a piece of steel with a hacksaw.

Ouch.

And ick.

Glad it healed.

[Matt Meiser]

I cut--straight through, no rotation--2"x2" square steel stock all the time. 2" diameter tubing should be no problem at all. They do also have a larger one if you routinely cut stuff over 2"; think that one has a 14" blade like the abrasive chop saws. It's also about double the price or more.

2" square is what I'd want to cut. I've done one project for the tractor with a piece of 4" (added a holder to my loader for a chain) but I cut that with plasma anyway.

[joseph j shields]

Matt,

Nice job!!!!

Don't you just love the Kreg Table???

It really makes assembly quite easy and enjoyable....

The only "problem" I have is with longer pieces... then I just clamp on some outriggers to support the piece.

-jj shields

[Mike Heidrick]

This is what I use.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/414j7JRT7fL._SL500_AA280_.jpg